In a Hurri (2 x 1/72 Hasegawa/Fly Hurricanes)

[Stew Dapple]

That rear fuselage is sure to be an improvement on that provided in the kit

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[stevehnz]

I like the look of what you're up to there, it'll be interesting to see the result.

Sorry for the out of order reactions, stupid phone will take me to the end of the thread rather than the last post I read. Cookies need taking out & shooting if they can't manage better than that.

Steve.

[AdrianMF]

I like your approach to the starved pony problem. On my long running (actually currently sitting very still skulking on the Shelf of Shame) Fairey long range monoplane build I had a similar issue with stringers made of fishing line. I used Perfect Plastic putty and a wet finger to level up the fabric effect.

 

There seems to be a surprising amount of work in these builds for a Hasegawa kit - it doesn’t look like a shake and bake at all. Looking forward to the primer!

 

Regards,

Adrian

[Procopius]

11 minutes ago, AdrianMF said:

I like your approach to the starved pony problem. On my long running (actually currently sitting very still skulking on the Shelf of Shame) Fairey long range monoplane build I had a similar issue with stringers made of fishing line. I used Perfect Plastic putty and a wet finger to level up the fabric effect.

Oh! That's a much better idea than mine. 

 

1 hour ago, AdrianMF said:

There seems to be a surprising amount of work in these builds for a Hasegawa kit - it doesn’t look like a shake and bake at all. Looking forward to the primer!

The IIb without the Vokes filter is pretty good, sink marks aside. If I didn't care about the ribbing, it could easily have been primed and painting could have begun. 

 

 

Anyway, today is off to a bad start, as after I left for work, Winston got the childproof lid off a bottle of windshield wiper fluid and may (or may not have) given some to Grant. Impossible to be sure, since two year olds are inveterate liars. Mrs P is with the children at the ER now, under observation. We had just gotten our savings back on track, too.

[Troy Smith]

On 16/8/2018 at 07:14, Procopius said:

Fly Hurricane IIa supplies a replacement, which I promptly wrecked sawing off of its pour stub and had to replace with one of my Quickboost ones. The QB one has non-Rotol prop blades, which I'm sure @Troy Smith can explain for me, as I have a second set of Rotol-type blades I can use in a pinch if need be. 

HI

 

Saw the notification, sorry, not gone through entire thread, 

 

this is what I would suggest for working out what is what

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234980181-hawker-hurricane-propellers-and-spinners-a-modellers-guide/

 

but given that there is a lot of confusion,  I'd need to see a picture. Also QB maybe wrong... given the confusing nature of the subject.

 

Note, that later blades fitted to the 'bullet' rotol lack the bottom 'corners'  and some maybe metal,

a detail I noticed that this nosed over Sea Hurricane the prop looks bent, not shattered

 

as opposed to the shattered appearance that the compressed wood blades show

like

 

 

I'll have a browse of the thread later.

 

HTH

T

PS one browse later

 

from what I can see in this pic, the blade on the top left are the early type Rotol with the corner, the ones on the left look to the later type,  as seen on the 2nd pic with the shattered blade.

 

the real BE402 is this

 

given it's a reasonably early Mk.II, I'd suggest it has the earlier type blade, I'd also suggest from the light undersides and lack of contrasts on the upper surface, that it's in TLS,  not desert scheme, and likely a black spinner

 

Hmm, googling Hurricane Z3781 gets this 

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/aircraft/19687

Quote

Hawker Hurricane Mk I XR-A Z3781, part of the fifth production batch produced by Hawker Aircraft Limited at Langley, to contract # 62305/39, between 14th January, 1941 and 28th July, 1941.

Personal A/C of Fl Lt George A Brown, whilst commander of A flight, No 71 (Eagle) Sqn.

Two claims E/A destroyed for pilot William R Dunn.

At this angle I can't tell if it's a Mk.I or a IIa,  and I don't have books to hand...

@Graham Boak may know?  

 

it has this on Dunn

http://www.americanairmuseum.com/person/240123

 

there a bit of Hurricane footage here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z2fVNnI6ms

 

HTH

[Graham Boak]

It's a Mk.II.  Despite the tailwheel.

[Procopius]

Argh, night-fighting anti-dazzle panels! I've ordered a pair of the Owl PE ones from, of all places, New Jersey. Hopefully should be here soon. Mercifully, I have an earlier tailwheel I can swap out for Dunn's Hurricane IIA. Really sloppy work by Fly, who neither show the anti-dazzle shades nor the early-style tailwheel in their profile with the kit. Is it possible either or both were removed when the aircraft was re-coded XR-T from XR-A?

[Cookenbacher]

Don't know if 'like' is the proper reaction, but there is no button for: 'I appreciate your attention to detail, and attentiveness to the input of knowledgeable Britmodellers'.

[Procopius]

Incidentally, here's PDFs of Dunn's 71 Squadron Combat reports, stored in my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4niq81j1n80wm0/AIR 50_29_12.pdf?dl=0 

 

The quality of the photocopies is abysmal; hard to believe it cost me £3.50 for something this badly digitized.

[Killingholme]

13 minutes ago, Procopius said:

Incidentally, here's PDFs of Dunn's 71 Squadron Combat reports, stored in my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4niq81j1n80wm0/AIR 50_29_12.pdf?dl=0 

 

The quality of the photocopies is abysmal; hard to believe it cost me £3.50 for something this badly digitized.

 

A lot of the National Archives' AIR series were microfilmed in the 60s and 70s. It was these films that the TNA digitised. Some are not in such such good nick!

[Procopius]

4 minutes ago, Killingholme said:

 

A lot of the National Archives' AIR series were microfilmed in the 60s and 70s. It was these films that the TNA digitised. Some are not in such such good nick!

This is the first one I've had a genuinely poor experience with -- I have a lot (A LOT) of hardcopy printouts from them from when I was researching the Indian Ocean Raid, and none of them are anywhere near this bad. Of course most of that was declassified in the late 1970s.

[Killingholme]

On 8/20/2018 at 7:32 PM, Procopius said:

Tell me more!

 

 

I can think of a LOT of modelling uses for these cheap little applicators. They sell them on the local market here for £1 a set.

[Troy Smith]

25 minutes ago, Procopius said:

Argh, night-fighting anti-dazzle panels! I've ordered a pair of the Owl PE ones from, of all places, New Jersey. Hopefully should be here soon. Mercifully, I have an earlier tailwheel I can swap out for Dunn's Hurricane IIA. Really sloppy work by Fly, who neither show the anti-dazzle shades nor the early-style tailwheel in their profile with the kit. Is it possible either or both were removed when the aircraft was re-coded XR-T from XR-A?

 

Fly don't seem very good at research,  their 1/32nd IIc has two schemes that are "profile only" sourced.

 

I don't recall the above, but there are a fair few shots of 71 sq in this era.

Note Fly have the code order T-XR on the starboard side, and the pics where you can see the starboard side...

 

a google image of "Hurricane XR-T"  gets shots of a warbird in this scheme....

I'm away from the books,  so can't see if there is a shot in there...

the profile, codes are about 40 inch (roundel is 35 inch), I have seen a shot IIRC of 71 sq plane with large and wider than normal codes

this i think

 

Note, 71 sq early look to have a variety of code styles, as in this shot of Mk.Is, note differing props and 36 inch serials, XR-D has the 49 inch oversize roundel, so is liley to be (relatively) 'old' 

 

  the shot of XR-A , they are smaller, about 30 inch

 

Again, @Graham Boak  might be able to add some info, 

 

I would suggest that the IIa's were new, and got a regulation paint job.   Hmm, more research is needed.

 

HTH

[Procopius]

Me trying to figure out this damn Eagle Squadron Hurricane:

 

 

Thanks for nothing, Fly.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello Edward ... I do hope Grant is better ? I saw over in the what have you purchased the comment about the co-pay. I presume that means he will survive ? 

Edited August 21, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[Procopius]

21 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Hello Edward ... I do hope Grant is better ? I saw over in the what have you purchased the comment about the co-pay. I presume that means he will survive ? 

He's fine, he's merrily repeatedly slamming the toilet lid down on his fingers under the watchful eye of his mother. The results of this experiment shock him every time!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Interesting ? Cant really give it a like though. 

[Procopius]

Okay, after some investigation, it would seem the decal option for Dunn's XR-T are based on the 1989 restoration of Hurricane XII G-HURI/5711, which was painted (Osprey's HURRICANE: A FIGHTER LEGEND by John Dibbs and Tony Holmes calls it "loosely represented") as XR-T/Z3781, which was, incidentally, the highest-scoring 71 Squadron Hurricane as well. Now, Bill Dunn was still alive in 1989 (he died in 1995), and he enjoyed painting pictures of his aircraft; the cover of his autobiography was painted by him:

 

 

So it's possible he was contacted for input on how the aircraft looked; the Osprey book is mute on that score. But if he was, I presume his artist's eye would have meant his input might be more useful than that of an ordinary pilot. 

 

 

 

A photo survives of Dunn posing by the nose art -- it seems to be on the other side of the aircraft from that shown in the profile, and shows fewer kills. 

 

I think the Eagle Squadron badge some profiles and G-HURI had on the obverse is a modern thing; none of the aircraft seen in the photos above have it. Additionally: George R Brown, who flew Z3781 as XR-A, transferred out of 71 Squadron in July to become CO of 133 Squadron. It's possible at this time the aircraft became Bill Dunn's. Initially, at least, he appears to have flown XR-D, which he refers to as "my Hurricane". Also, here's where it starts to get messy.  He says "Hurricane XR-T belonged to 71 Squadron, B Flight", but all of his combat reports indicate he was flying with "A" Flight. During 1941, he also flew at least two different Hurricanes which he scored in: Z3781 (claiming one 109F each on 2 July and 21 July), and Z3267(claiming one shared 109F probable in conjunction with a 306 Squadron pilot on 6 July, and a 109E on 9 August). Presumably this photo dates from between 9 August and later in the month when the squadron re-equipped with Spitfire IIas. Per John Dibbs, Z3781 was transferred to 131 Squadron in August, so perhaps this nose art was on Z3267. Some other comments by him seem to suggest the 71 Squadron ORB is of use in reconciling codes with serials, so off to the National Archives we go, and seven pounds later...

 

July 1941

August 1941

 

Dunn seems to have primarily flown Z3267 during July and August (Z3828 is the final Hurricane II he flew, on the afternoon of 16 August (after flying Z3679 in the morning). This leads me to believe that XR-D was Z3267, which also means, in all probability, XR-D/Z3679 bore the pugilistic eagle and his kill markings on the starboard side of the nose. As no Eagle Squadron Hurricane had an airframe score of four aircraft, Dunn did, and was the squadron high-scorer at the time, and Z3267 was his regular aircraft (though also flown sometimes by others), this seems to be the most likely solution. This makes me believe that XR-T was indeed Z3781, but lacked the nose art. The serial number was probably overpainted by the Sky band as well, as with other Eagle Squadron aircraft. That still leaves me hanging on the issue of whether or not the tail wheel could have been swapped out for the later model.

 

I suppose I could buy the general summaries for a further seven pounds, but I think we have enough to go on here with the markings. Don't you?

[Procopius]

How I feel after that post:

 

[Procopius]

Early tailwheel is now on the Hurricane IIa. If it's somehow wrong now, you have only yourself to blame.

 

20180821_223740 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Immediately after I put up this photo, I decided I didn't like the angle of the tailwheel -- the "arms" holding the wheel should be almost parallel to the fuselage, so I ran through a door, the babygate, down a flight of stairs, turned on four sets of lights, went through two more doors, and fixed it, then came back up. Whew!

 

Painted the canopies the interior colour:

 

20180821_223748 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Sanded down the IIc's flanks a bit:

 

20180821_223802 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Added some grey goop to close up the gaps in the cannon barrel undersides:

 

20180821_223833 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

Did my best on the chin joins:

 

20180821_223822 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

And added the tailplanes on the IIc. 

 

Also added some grey goop to fill a persistent seam on the cowl. I HATE cowling seams.

 

20180821_224748 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

 

[Stew Dapple]

Top marks for your research and extrapolation thereof. I like the look of the reworked fuselage fabric effect too... 

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[stevehnz]

6 hours ago, Procopius said:

I HATE cowling seams.

With you on that one. Some nice history here Edward, you're really making g this thread come alive, I'm certainly enjoying it. 

Steve.

[CedB]

Nice work Edward - they're looking very smart   

[Procopius]

I primed tonight, after first playing "crane and bucket truck" with Winston for about three years:

 

 

It was actually pretty fun, and as Mrs P was off with Grant on a hellish adventure to buy supplies for her classroom, he had nobody to be jealous of and was exceptionally well-behaved (by Winston standards). It confirms what I've long suspected about my own childhood: everything was fine until my parents ruined things by having three grossly inferior sequels. 

 

I'm sorry to say my attempt to reduce the depth of the ribbing on the rear fuselage was not successful:

 

20180822_223245 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

20180822_223305 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

20180822_223257 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

20180822_223234 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

The slight gloss finish tends to obscure how deep the lines remain. I'm quite disappointed, but perhaps realistically anything thin enough to spread by brush was never going to have enough moxie to do the job. My fear with something like Perfect Plastic Putty is that it doesn't adhere as well as hotter fillers, but perhaps with something as rigid as a rear fuselage, that wouldn't be an issue, especially with primer laid over it. Anyway, the whole thing is so frustrating, because the rear fuselage of the Hurricane looks more like a series of angled flat plates than hills and valleys:

 

 

Additionally, as if to add insult to injury, there's still a slight divot over the fuel tank on the IIa:

 

20180822_223348 by Edward IX, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

 

[Stew Dapple]

Ah that's a damned shame mate, but I suppose it stands to reason that a procedure that is incredibly easy to do is going to produce results that are not quite as satisfactory as doing it in a more labour-intensive way. If it's any consolation at all, I can't see the cowling divot in that picture  

 

I imagine that anything more that three minutes of playing Crane and Bucket* is inevitably going to feel like three years, but I'm glad you enjoyed it  

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

 

* At least it wasn't Dog and Bear