TAMIYA-CENTAUR C.S. MKIV(CRUISER MKVIII A27L)

[Bullbasket]

17 hours ago, Modelholic said:

Bull,Probably a silly question but,

Have you checked that the varnish is iso thinnable? I know they do water, acrylic and turpentine based varnishes. The acrylic may be iso compatible (Tamiya paint type acrylic that is)

Tom

Sorry to hijack your thread Simon, so I'll keep it brief.

Tom, it is the acrylic version that I'm using, but maybe I didn't have the ratios correct. I will try the 70/30 that Simon uses.

 

John.

[Badder]

12 hours ago, Redcoat2966 said:

Try pure ISO Badder in place of the water. Water for me does dry patchy as I think depending on coverage and room temp drys at different rates across the models surfaces.

 

As regards the B&W effect. I have learnt to keep the paint to be spraye more transparent from the get go for each layer. 

 

Simon

Hi Simon,

Forgive my ignorance, but what is ISO? I thought it may have been a typo!😁

[Redcoat2966]

14 minutes ago, Badder said:

Hi Simon,

Forgive my ignorance, but what is ISO? I thought it may have been a typo!😁

Hi Badder, sorry mate.....isopropanol........alcohol. I generally do about three coats with as I said 70/30 mix.....

 

and no problem John.......all adds to the effect........😁....like gentle layers of weathering.....

[Redcoat2966]

Ready for first base coat........

 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Redcoat2966

[Redcoat2966]

First transparent shade down........base coat......

 

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by Redcoat2966

[Kingsman]

I had a look at the idler mounting arrangement on the Bovington Crusader, as the Cavalier and original Centaur arrangements were supposed to be similar if not the same.  The idler axle is mounted into a casting which in turn has an axle into the hull, on the end of which would be the worm tensioning drive.  So the casting swivels as tension is applied.  It's in a dark narrow gap and I only had my phone camera, so I couldn't get any clear pictures.

 

But it shows that leaving off the "hockey stick" tensioner and mounting the idler directly on the resulting stub axle, as Tamiya's instructions state, isn't correct for a Centaur with the worm-drive tensioner.  That area is more visible on the Centaur, especially with trackguards cut back.

[Redcoat2966]

AFTERNOON ALL........managed a hour or so this afternoon to get the final colour on this one. I had to manage with Model Color AV Vallejo, mixed by eye. I wanted to make it a little more visually stimulating to the box art on the Tamiya box, and after wash's and weathering this should be able to maintain some of this richer depth in colour.....hope you all like and ( for purists...😁)......approve.....

 

Simon.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hamden]

 

Looks good from here!

No two tanks are the same colour even when painted at the same time using the same batch number, they all wear/weather differently so who can say that your not spot on for colour!

 

  Roger

[Bullbasket]

Looks like SCC2 to me, and as Roger says, no two are ever exactly alike.

 

John.

[Kingsman]

Brown is one of those colours that needs some tonal variation to avoid looking like a blob.  This certainly looks good to me.  Good skills.  What mix did you end up using?

 

Again, what are our points of colour reference?  Rare colour photos are untrustworthy and the BS colour swatches change colour on screen or in print, unless you're lucky enough to have an original copy.  I know Mike Starmer has constructed his mixes with reference to an original 1942 BS.  I've seen and held an original copy, but only have an untrustworthy scan myself.  The preserved SCC2 vehicles I can think of are all repaints.   SCC2 was on the lighter side: there was also SCC1A Dark Brown with a very noticeable contrast between the 2 - so much so that SCC1A/SCC2 was used as a scheme, mostly in Italy.

 

I don't know what the "fade factor" was for SCC2.  If the pigment was a base pre-oxidised material then it wouldn't fade further.  To rehearse a point made on another forum, the recent tendency for artistic fading effects is done without any reference to whether the pigments used actually faded.  Many did not.

 

Paint consistency and codification had improved very much by WW2: by 1942 we'd had 2 British Standards, with a revision in 1944, and Germany had introduced the RAL system in the 30's.  We had manufactured paints, nitrocellulose lacquers and spray application technology from the motor industry, but there would inevitably have been some batch variation - as there is today.  Units were still issued instructions on mixing paint from linseed oil and dry pigments - but the number of cans of paint (and the number of brushes!) were also specified by vehicle type.  This indicates a mixed supply of paint at unit level.

[Kris B]

I am not really good with proper colours, so I would say that paint job is well done. 

[Kingsman]

I couldn't get a decent picture of the Crusader idler mounting arrangement even with my Nikon and flash gun.  Just too dark and narrow.  However, of course, Covenanter had the same arrangement.  I could see enough of the Crusader part to see that they are the same.  And it's a lot more visible on the Covenanter.

 

So here is what the idler mounting on a Centaur should look like. I believe.  As I said above, sticking on the kit peg isn't the right answer.

 

[Redcoat2966]

Well.....here we stand after a few hours of extreme frustration getting the turret decals on.........I won't say anymore, but it has put me in mind to steer clear of any large decal requirement on a  vehicle EVER again.......

 

There's a couple of blips in the decal here and there that'll need a chip or two to hide. These took 3 coats of MicroSol to lay flat and mould around the features.

Thanks to John (Bullbasket) for the additional set of decals after the first met an accident, no doubt during my frustration creating an accidental spill on my bench.

 

Anyway, here's so far.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bigfoot]

The blips don’t show! Looking really good so far.

[Bullbasket]

PITA I know, but you seem to have cracked it. When I was doing mine last night, the most difficult part was getting the one to sit right on the pistol ports. Revisiting a few times with a very sharp blade, a lot of Microsol and a flat brush were the ways to go. 

 

John.

[Hamden]

 

Those decals look spot on I can't see any faults any ware! 

 

  Roger

[Redcoat2966]

3 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

PITA I know, but you seem to have cracked it. When I was doing mine last night, the most difficult part was getting the one to sit right on the pistol ports. Revisiting a few times with a very sharp blade, a lot of Microsol and a flat brush were the ways to go. 

 

John.

To be honest, I discovered I was using the Microsol wrong when I watched Andy’s Hobby HQ on YouTube. I use to put the solution on first.....resulting in all manor of horrors😬

 

I watched him lay the decal with just water . Then slightly dry it off, then apply solution and let it dry. Repeat until the decal lays itself over the contours. Once he had it where he wanted, and nearly dry of the last layer of solution. He then he used a cotton bud to firm out wrinkles etc. Still really hard with such large decals. 

 

The decal was so soft I could use a blade to form into the joints etc on the pistol ports.

2 hours ago, Hamden said:

 

Those decals look spot on I can't see any faults any ware! 

 

  Roger

Cheers Roger 👍

Simon

Edited October 25, 2018 by Redcoat2966

[Kris B]

Excellent job with decals.

[Redcoat2966]

Thanks Kris......the last large scale decals I’ll be doing 😁

 

cheers.....👍

 

Simon

[Kingsman]

Are those the kit decals??  I've got the Star and Peddinghaus sets too.  A backup and a backup to the backup!

 

Haven't decided which to use.  I think the Peddi ones are printed on a single film and therefore need a lot of trimming.  I've only used one of his sets before and that was the case with them.  They're also quite tough and didn't want to go down over the rivets on my MkIV.  So perhaps I'll give them a miss.  I think the Star ones are in sections.

[Redcoat2966]

Hi DA

 

Yes, the Tamiya decals. They weren't too bad as regards a good fit. But as John said, it helps not to have the lifting lugs in place. Fit them last.

 

I found the best for me anyway, was to soak them off the paper carrier and then pick them up at one end with tweezers.......the end opposite the holes for those huge rivets/nuts and place over the rivet/nut rather than trying to slide it into place. Plenty of water.......and then once most of the water has been remover.....3+ coats of Microsol left to dry in between each application.

 

I won't though be going for kits with large decals again though. Doesn't matter how much Microsol and then matt varnish.....you can still see the outline of the decal.

 

Simon.

[Bullbasket]

11 hours ago, Redcoat2966 said:

you can still see the outline of the decal.

Yes, it's like a dirty great demarcation line. Hopefully, it will be less apparent once the matt coat goes on.

With regards to the Peddinghaus decals. They are all on one carrier film and have to be cut out individually. Also, there are no holes/cutouts for the rivets and the lifting lugs, so you will need to do a hell of a lot more cutting than with the Tamiya decals. The carrier film is very tough and doesn't seem to want to react to decal softening solutions. I was also able to peel one decal away from where it had been placed the next day, so the adhesive qualities aren't up to much either.

I've got the Bison Decal set for the Centaur, and I'm assuming that the Star Decals sheet is just a rerelease of the original, in which case, the only markings on it are tank's name, unit markings etc., but NOT the turret markings. It states in the instructions that you have to get those from the Tamiya sheet.

 

John.

[Redcoat2966]

Hi John 

 

Yeah, it is only noticeable......it’s my OCD....😁

 

Dissapointing as regards the Peddinghouse.....you’d expect more based on what they charge. Overall, I have to say, the Tamiya were pretty spot in as regards the holes and shape required......I just had issues of laying such a large decal😖.......once the Microsol went on it moulded to contours nicely 

 

Simon

[Bullbasket]

5 minutes ago, Redcoat2966 said:

Yeah, it is only noticeable......it’s my OCD....😁

All of the problems that you've had, I've had the same. The demarcation line is there for all to see in gloss, so as I said, hopefully less so with the matt coat. My problem is the gloss varnish. I applied it with a brush because it clogged up the airbrush last time, but I've been heavy handed and it ran.

 

John.

[Redcoat2966]

John

 

What are you using as regards varnish......I mix mine roughly 70/30.....70 being alcohol. I use the Windsor & Mewton Galleria. I find even with my very fine AB it passes through great. I prefer 2 to 3 coats of this ration than one thicker mix.