TAMIYA-CENTAUR C.S. MKIV(CRUISER MKVIII A27L)

[Redcoat2966]

Hi John.....thanks  mate......I'm going to try and get all the final details done this week. I'm looking forward to starting the painting on this one, as all that I have read this Centaur brown, that it's a tough one......so looking forward to see how it turns out. I'm going to try a tight B&W effect, and see if I can keep the brown alive somewhat.

 

Thanks to everyone for your input. I don't want to sound ungrateful to that gang in anyway.....in fact it's impressive the depth of detail you all have......if I let my burgeoning OCD get the best of me, I'll never finish a project.......😁

 

Cheers John

[Kingsman]

Yes Redcoat, I've been following the 2 threads on here and the one on Missing Lynx trying to avoid falling into any hybrid pooh traps whenever I get round to doing mine.  (I think my dog left me a hybrid pooh trap yesterday morning....).  But Centaur absolutes do seem hard to come by.  You think you've got one, then poof! it's gone.

 

 

[Kris B]

Now the fun begins. If you can post photos form each step. 

[Redcoat2966]

Hi Kris....I'll try and photo the sequences as best I can.

 

I chose the grey Ultimate primer as it "hopefully" will soften the line between the B&W areas. Just an idea as I noticed when I did the B&W on my Steyer and on the 20mm Flak, there was an abrupt delineation between the two areas. So experimenting to see if I can soften it a little. I'm also going to hand paint after the airbrush some lighter shades of the primer mixed with white on specific details etc....then on with a coat of this brown. Still have to look through my Vallejo's to find something yet.

 

Hopefully over the weekend, or tomorrow even with some movement on colour if I get the final onboard detail done.

 

Simon.

[Bullbasket]

Simon, I don't know which brand of paint you use, but here's Mike Starmer's mix using Tamiya paints for SCC2.

5 x XF68 + 4 x XF3 + 1 x XF1.

HTH's.

 

John.

[SleeperService]

Whoa! If your Centaur is an engined one in Normandy then they were almost certainly SCC.15. Why you ask? Well the instruction was for all vehicles for the assault units to be replaced by new vehicles waterproofed and fully serviced just before D-Day. Once delivered running was kept to an absolute minimum. At the same time it was ordered that 'A' vehicles were to be SCC.15, even the BARVs in some cases got a new paint coat over the nearly new blue or grey they were built in.

 

The original plan was for the RMASG to be carried in and fire from landing craft. The vehicles had the engines and transmissions removed to carry extra ammunition. At some stage quite late in the day it was decided (apparently by Montgomery after a demonstration) to land them to 'thicken up' the tank support but they were restricted to how far inland they could go. That meant the vehicles either got a major rebuild or bits were swopped with stock tanks, in either case they were overhauled and waterproofed before issue.

 

Parallel to this the Crusader SP AA guns both 40mm and triple 20mm were going through a rush development programme, with the BARVs and these Centaurs. There's a lot of evidence to show that all were SCC.15 when issued. Look at the pristine state of the markings for one thing. The clincher for me is that the Preston Isaac's Centaur has brown SCC.2 underneath the Green even on the artillery sight which was unique to the RMASG.

 

But it's your model and your choice. I offer the information so you have a reply to the inevitable 'anorak' out there who'll challenge it. It's a very nice build as well. I've come to the same conclusion with Voyager photo-etch as you. Silly errors, obvious bits missed but lots of little bits that make a tiny difference....then we paint it and the difference nearly vanishes

 

[Redcoat2966]

6 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

Simon, I don't know which brand of paint you use, but here's Mike Starmer's mix using Tamiya paints for SCC2.

5 x XF68 + 4 x XF3 + 1 x XF1.

HTH's.

 

John.

Hi John...thanks for that....I do have a couple of jars of Tamiya knocking around.....but I'm mostly using AV Vallejo Model Colour.....I picked up a complete set off Ebay for £150 a few years ago.....so for now I'm chugging through them. I only recently dug them out, and a few have settled and so I have to cut open the bottle, and give them a good mixing and strain them for airbrushing and transplant to a new bottle.....I'm planning on mixing a blend to result I hope with a lighter version of the colour  which will darken with weathering.

 

Thanks again.

5 hours ago, SleeperService said:

 

 

But it's your model and your choice. I offer the information so you have a reply to the inevitable 'anorak' out there who'll challenge it. It's a very nice build as well. I've come to the same conclusion with Voyager photo-etch as you. Silly errors, obvious bits missed but lots of little bits that make a tiny difference....then we paint it and the difference nearly vanishes

 

 

Thanks Sleeper, and no; you carry on. Always good to have this info....not just for my builds; but if another member is planning in the future. I intend to also build the standard Cromwell as I have a PE set for it......as all this info on this and Bullbaskets Centaur will definitely come in handy.

 

Cheers

 

=================================================

 

Well here she stands after final detail readied for the B&W phase. I managed to get the rear exhaust hoods popped off...........much more preferable a look and I can see the grills now....😁......tow cables attached, all tools ready for off vehicle painting and added at the end. Also the lifting lugs for the turret will be added after those complicated decals on the turret are finished.......It'll be a few days on the B&W. I need to work out which details and directions to do etc. 

 

[SleeperService]

Nice work there! That picture looks scarily like an AutoCad generated thing.

[Modelholic]

"Nice work there! That picture looks scarily like an AutoCad generated thing."

Sleeperservice took the words right out of my mouth!

Tom

Edited September 21, 2018 by Modelholic
punctuation

[Kingsman]

I believe it's hard to be absolute about RMASG colours, with the exception of their Shermans - which would definitely have still been in US OD.  SCC2 wasn't a positive choice that we wanted brown vehicles: we'd just run out of the imported pigments to make dark greens, so brown had to do from 1942-44.  So US imports remained in their desirable OD.

 

It is without question certain that the Centaurs used by RMASG would have left the factory in SCC2.  They would have lived their lives in training and storage in that colour.  As static RMASG tanks aboard LCTs their colour was entirely irrelevant and would not have changed.  They would have ignored the general instruction to repaint AFVs in SCC15.  Indeed, painting grey would have made some sense if they were to stay aboard.  The big question that we now can't seem to definitively answer is whether repainting took place once the decision was taken to allow them to land. 

 

Pictures show that not all RMASG Centaurs were wadeproofed: I believe that some beaches did not require it because of their shallow slope.  It was common, even standard, REME practice to repaint vehicles which had undergone major repair or modification.  So there is some logic to the proposition that wadeproofed tanks were repainted in SCC15.  Period colour photos certainly show tanks in green rather than brown,  As for the others, who knows?  It isn't guaranteed.

 

The current or post-war colours of monument, museum and preserved tanks is not to be trusted.  All have been repainted, not necessarily accurately.  The true identity of most is uncertain at best.

[Redcoat2966]

4 hours ago, SleeperService said:

Nice work there! That picture looks scarily like an AutoCad generated thing.

 

1 hour ago, Modelholic said:

"Nice work there! That picture looks scarily like an AutoCad generated thing."

Sleeperservice took the words right out of my mouth!

Tom

 

Thanks to both of you for that.........

 

Well, no longer a cad drawing.......it's had it's first round of B&W pre-shading.....

 

 

I need to touch up here and there, and strengthen some of the white along the mud guards and fenders. Once that's in hand, some small detail highlighting in a lightened primer (50/50 with white). Concentrate on hinges and bolt heads.......then a final choice on main colour base coat....I'm considering Yellow Ochre 913/121 from AV as base then second detail coats of Golden Brown 877/125 then final shadow areas in Camo Orange Ochre 824/128

 

 

Maybe get on it Sunday for the detail and main colour....until then....nite all

Simon.

[Kris B]

Base looks promising. 

[Modelholic]

Looking very good.

I've used AV model colour for quite a while now with a brush, how do they spray?

 

[Redcoat2966]

1 hour ago, Modelholic said:

Looking very good.

I've used AV model colour for quite a while now with a brush, how do they spray?

 

Hi.....and thanks 👍........I’ve had no issue to date as long as you pop some flow additive in. I think that’s all that Model Air has added. The AV Model have a very strong pigment content which is a big bonus for me. .....and I also like them when used with a brush.....always smooths our nice when they dry.

 

Simon

[Soeren]

As you mentioned the harsh transition lines after b&w I will try the approach shown at the ipsm Toronto Barbara channel.  Light grey primer and press shading with a colour suited for your Base coat.

[Redcoat2966]

Yes Soeren.......all black primer and then the white was visible and it’s abrupt look. I found this was the result on my Steyer. I was going to tint the white as a cream, but decided to stick with white only .......I’m still going to go with three shades of colour to get (hopefully 😬) the final brown. Tough colour to some life into.

[Bullbasket]

It's looking good Simon. You're a couple of stages ahead of me. I've just applied a primer coat of Games Workshop Skull White. What gloss varnish do you use? I've got some Daler Rowney artist's varnish which is great apart from the fact that it gums up the airbrush. I thin it with isopropanol.

 

John.

[Modelholic]

Would an overall coat of very thinly applied light gray tone down the demarcation lines?

[Modelholic]

Bull,Probably a silly question but,

Have you checked that the varnish is iso thinnable? I know they do water, acrylic and turpentine based varnishes. The acrylic may be iso compatible (Tamiya paint type acrylic that is)

Tom

[Redcoat2966]

47 minutes ago, Bullbasket said:

It's looking good Simon. You're a couple of stages ahead of me. I've just applied a primer coat of Games Workshop Skull White. What gloss varnish do you use? I've got some Daler Rowney artist's varnish which is great apart from the fact that it gums up the airbrush. I thin it with isopropanol.

 

John.

Hi John 

I use Windsor and Newton Galleria Matt. I love it and I have no probs with iso mixing with it. I tend to mix it like 70/30......30 being the varnish. Gives a lovely finish. I’m going to also get the gloss version for pre decal stage

 

9 minutes ago, Modelholic said:

Would an overall coat of very thinly applied light gray tone down the demarcation lines?

I think there’s a fine line to being too subtle and some delineation. I still have to blend mine some more and pump up in places the black and the white. I have an old hulk knocking around, so I might experiment with a light dusting after the B&Q and see how it t looks.

5 minutes ago, Modelholic said:

Bull,Probably a silly question but,

Have you checked that the varnish is iso thinnable? I know they do water, acrylic and turpentine based varnishes. The acrylic may be iso compatible (Tamiya paint type acrylic that is)

Tom

As I said Tom, Iso goes fine with W&N Galleria.....no issues. I tend to mix a batch in a large bottle with a dispensing spout and have easily at hand. I’ve used it sometimes to mix with colour. That’s why I like the heavy pigmented AV colours. You can tint the varnish really nice to change the hue of a colour.

 

Simon

[Soeren]

AV is acrylics Valley and you mean model color as heavy pigmented? Went for that too. More pigments for the same price as model air. And with all the pros ad mentioned.

[Modelholic]

Sorry Redcoat,

I should have submitted in another post (feeling a bit lazy today...nothing new there!).

The varnish query was for bullbasket regarding his use of Daler Rowney artists varnish

[Redcoat2966]

1 hour ago, Soeren said:

AV is acrylics Valley and you mean model color as heavy pigmented? Went for that too. More pigments for the same price as model air. And with all the pros ad mentioned.

Yes......Model Color was originally intended for figure painting. So hence the higher pigment content and it’s flattening out when dry; when used with a brush......Model Air = more water and flow agent. O can add that when I need to spray 

37 minutes ago, Modelholic said:

Sorry Redcoat,

I should have submitted in another post (feeling a bit lazy today...nothing new there!).

The varnish query was for bullbasket regarding his use of Daler Rowney artists varnish

No problem mate......anytime 😎

[Badder]

4 hours ago, Redcoat2966 said:

I use Windsor and Newton Galleria Matt. I love it and I have no probs with iso mixing with it. I tend to mix it like 70/30......30 being the varnish. Gives a lovely finish. I’m going to also get the gloss version for pre decal stage

First off, lovely B&W. I hope it works. So often modellers overdo the overcoats and completely loose the effect. That's why I haven't tried it! I'm absolutely certain to obliterate it!

 

As for Newton Galeria Matt, I may have said this to you before, but yes, it's brilliant stuff. I tend to use it neat, but it does thin nicely with water. Their gloss version though, isn't so good. Well, I haven't got it to work perfectly anyway, even with added water. I find it sometimes dries a bit patchy. If you DO get a great even and shiny application, please let me know the water/varnish ratio?

 

Thanks,

Badder

[Redcoat2966]

Try pure ISO Badder in place of the water. Water for me does dry patchy as I think depending on coverage and room temp drys at different rates across the models surfaces.

 

As regards the B&W effect. I have learnt to keep the paint to be spraye more transparent from the get go for each layer. 

 

Simon

Edited September 22, 2018 by Redcoat2966