HMS Dido (Ikara Leander) 1979 - [WAFU’s away match]

[Chewbacca]

23 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Back to the bow.  There is a johnson on the fo’c’sle whose purpose is a total mystery.  It’s clearly visible on all the Ikara Leanders, but I haven’t clue what it is: but it looks like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Missile command link aerial perhaps?  Or was that housed in the radome on top of the bridge roof?  Unfortunately my 2 Leanders were Sea Wolf and Exocet respectively so I have no great knowledge of Ikara.

 

Interestingly I can't see a comparable structure on any images of BRISTOL when she had Ikara fitted.  There's something there between the Ikara launcher and 4.5 but it looks somewhat different to this.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I think all the command linkery was via the two things on top of the bridge - the dome and the taller stalk just behind it (the one with the caged ladder on it).  These two (old pic from earlier in the build - don’t panic, the RAS stump mast hasn’t fallen off!)

 

I suspect the unidentified thing is more for the Dabbers (seaman branch, for those who don’t speak Navy); it has a mechanical / nautical rather than electronic cut to its jib!  Only the Ikara ships had it, but not Bristol as you say - if I had to bet it would be something to do with RASing.

 

Anyway.  We don’t know...

 

I’m now really close to priming; most things are now fitted apart from the guardrails.  Today’s additions have been the final liferaft rack platforms, on either side just aft of the chaff launchers, plus the final PE doors. [Hmm.  Must remember to glue the final sextion of copper wire on the funnel!]

 

Also seen from directly above (the patch of Tamiya tape is ready for the primer; it’s where the mainmast fits, and I have fettled it so the fit is really tight, so I want to keep it that way plus give a decent bond without paint involved)

 

One of the things I always think looks least convincing about PE on ship models is the fairleads; they are mixed in with PE guardrails, and while the rails look a convincing thickness, the fairleads definitely shouldn’t be thin - in reality they are pretty chunky pieces of kit.   At Telford last year I found some L’Arsenal resin bitts & fairleads which address this.  They are very slightly too big (being designed for cruisers & battleships according to the packet), but the difference when measured agaisnt the PE is minimal, and I think the improved look of fairleads with some body outweighs the slight overscale.  [Though it will make fitting - and particularly trimming - the guardrails a good game!]

 

 

Starboard bow ones only fitted so far - you can see the pencil marks from where I measured their position using the kit railings.  The one on the left has been cut down to make the base of a roller fairlead; some rod to be added on either end once everything set.

 

The remaining fairleads plus the port bridge wing door are all that remains to fit before I get to primer, so I hope to get to that next week (though next week is our audit, so I could be too busy to get much time at the bench).  As observed yesterday, she also needs a serious clean-up before I go anywhere near her with paint!

 

More soon, anyway

 

Crisp

Edited October 4, 2018 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Courageous]

Some good detail work there Crisp .

Question: I've seen mentioned the use of Tamiya tape builds, is this a 'mask' or is it staying there? And if it is staying, are we relying on its 'stickyness' to stick or do you glue?

 

Stuart

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

The tape is purely a mask, so that when I eventually glue the mast in position the join is resin to resin (i.e. there is no primer).  Otherwise you risk glueing resin to paint (or worse paint to paint) which is not secure enough.

[Terry1954]

12 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I suspect the unidentified thing is more for the Dabbers (seaman branch, for those who don’t speak Navy); it has a mechanical / nautical rather than electronic cut to its jib!  Only the Ikara ships had it, but not Bristol as you say - if I had to bet it would be something to do with RASing.

Your suggestion on its purpose is likely to be correct I think. The photo below was taken from Seaforces.org (Crown Copyright Royal Navy) and shows HMS Aurora. Judging by the activity on deck, it looks like it could be about to undergo some RAS? I suspect the picture was taken from the RAS ship itself. If you look on the fo’c’sle some "Dabbers" can be seen milling around that object, and there is a line curled and ready?

 

A layman's analysis (albeit one with an incurable passion for Leander's amongst other things), but it might help understand its likely purpose? It could of course just be something they are all using to lean against!

 

 

A great photo at least I thought?

 

Great work on the etch still. Looking forward to seeing some primer work!

 

Terry

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Great photo, definitely - but not sure it helps.  That loosely coiled line is the distance line (visual indicator of the distance between the two ships), which is part of every RAS and definitely wouldn’t be tied to anything.

 

They’re clearly ready for a RAS - in fact they’re running in towards the tanker (from which the pic was taken), because they have flag Romeo close up - that’s what that flag means in this context 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

[Double post for some reason]

Edited October 5, 2018 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Terry1954]

I wasn't necessarily thinking it was used to secure any lines, just trying to link it to a RAS activity.

 

I found the shot below on http://www.adf-gallery.com.au/gallery/Ikara. There's a whole set of photos relating to Ikara. I found this one interesting as it seems that the rear of the "cap" on top of the pole may possibly be open? It's quite a poor image so that may be just a shadow, but If that were the case, I then started to think about how the fo’c’sle crew would need to communicate during RAS? So could it be to do with some telephony link - i.e. a weather protected handset? I know nothing of these operations at all, so I'm just speculating, and the idea may be completely off the wall! 

 

Failing that, I'm stumped!

 

 

[bzn20]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 11:12 PM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

got a new job after 2 very frustrating years of unemployment.

Well done Crisp , really pleased for you . Welcome back .

[perdu]

I know less than nothing about ships but that device on the front deck (see? I tole yer I know nuffink) looks to me like a tall ventilating vent with a couple of stays to stop wildish water knocking it over in wildish water

'specially when we look at the last picture...

Looks like a mushroom cap over a tall chimbley

 

 

 

 

 

 

Where did I leave that coat?

 

Oh yes before I go, it is all looking very fine

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Bill, you could easily be right - especially about the stays; in that position it would get a right pounding in a heavy sea.  Nice idea, Terry, but there are already lots of comms in that area (just behind the breakwater, for use when anchoring or mooring to a buoy).  It replaces something lost when the turret went.  

 

I have a mate who was fo’c’sle officer of Aurora in his youth.  She had Ikara.  I’ll ask him!

 

However, Terry’s pic shows the layout of the fo’c’sle very clearly - notably the fact that my fairleads are currently too far inboard, so I see some careful undoing of previous work next week!

Edited October 5, 2018 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Roger Newsome]

In relation to the mystery focsle object, am I right in thinking that there was originally a breakwater there, with a cluster of vents behind? Perhaps when the breakwater was removed the vents were routed into one.  @perdu might be close to the mark with the vent theory.

Roger.

 

Edit, disregard that, it was the after of the two breakwaters that was removed. It does look like a vent though.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Roger Newsome

[Terry1954]

2 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

I have a mate who was fo’c’sle officer of Aurora in his youth.  She had Ikara.  I’ll ask him!

Let's hope that solves the mystery!

 

As you say it must replace something lost when the turret went, but I wonder why only on Ikara fits and not Seawolf/Exocet, as they lost the turret as well. I guess the Ikara build out does take up much more of the front of the ship though.

 

4 hours ago, perdu said:

Looks like a mushroom cap over a tall chimbley

I agree some sort of vent seems the a logical theory.

 

Terry

 

 

[Roger Newsome]

Sorry, in my enthusiasm for the mystery focsle object I forgot to say what a great looking model and how much I'm enjoying following it's progress. 

[Bigdave22014]

Excellent work as ever.

Now, that strange pipe thingy... what was underneath it? Could it have been an observation periscope for Ikara launches?

[Niall]

Could the unidentified structure on the focsle be the exhaust for the generator used when the ship was at anchor?

 

HMS Plymouth had a generator in about that position and her hull was the same basic design as the Leander class.

[hairystick]

On 10/6/2018 at 11:34 PM, Bigdave22014 said:

Now, that strange pipe thingy... what was underneath it?

Probably a vent pipe from the Fwd junior rates mess. That was forward of the gunbay and a place where officers dared not venture once seas became lumpy. or so I was informed...

 

I don't recall what was done to the gunbay area on 1 deck when the Icara was fitted, but presumably not left in the 4.5" configuration?

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Really scratching deep into my memory banks here, but I vaguely remember the below decks changes for Ikara being relatively small - I certainly recall the curved wall of the gunbay still being there on 1 & 2 Decks.  I think.  Or am I thinking of ’tweendecks in Norfolk beneath the Exocet battery?

 

I wish I’d paid more attention at the time!  

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

20 hours ago, Niall said:

Could the unidentified structure on the focsle be the exhaust for the generator used when the ship was at anchor?

 

HMS Plymouth had a generator in about that position and her hull was the same basic design as the Leander class.

One of the benefits of the redesign from the Type 12 was apparently the fact that they were able to move the DGs lower in the ship.  There were certainly 2 exhausts in the rear face of the foremast, which suggests that the Gennies weren’t in the same position.  And if they were in the same place, why change the exhaust arrangements?  

[Chewbacca]

Certainly neither of my Leanders (ANDROMEDA and PENELOPE) had a generator up fwd and even if the earlier Leanders did, that vent looks too small for either an intake or exhaust.  You can see the exhaust on ROTHESAY here:

 

Yet the image in #83 does seem to show that it's a fairly substantial structure.  I'm baffled.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Chewbacca

[Paul E]

Having only served on one Leander and not an Ikara one (on the account that they went out of service when I joined) I cannot be certain of the exact purpose of the pole on the fore deck. What I can say it isn't a rest for the RAS crew, a vent, a periscope or an exhaust for a DG. It is without a doubt an antenna and it relates to the Ikara system. Judging by its location I would say it is a beacon transmitter. What I do know is that the 184 Sonar Instrument Space is located in that position and below that the main Sonar dome. As Ikara is an Anti Submarine Weapon the position of the missile relative to the Sonar will be essential to enable the missile to accurately release its torpedo pay load. I suspect that the missile triangulates using the antenna on the foredeck and the antenna on the pole aft of the bridge to get its range. The dome on the bridge roof is used for in flight guidance for the missile. 

 

To me as an ex Weapons Engineer that seems the most plausible answer. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Paul E
Edit

[Terry1954]

That explanation sounds very plausible to me @Paul E. It's possible you may have solved the mystery!

 

Terry

[Roger Newsome]

In this photo it certainly looks like it has a GRP  antenna like top, backing up @Paul E's theory.

 

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Good spot, Roger - clear colour photos of Ikara Leanders aren’t all that common (almost all official RN photos were B&W in those days - indeed, until quite recently).  That definitely looks GRP-like.  

 

@Paul E‘s theory is the only remotely plausible one I’ve heard so far, so I’m going to assume he is right and move on - painting my 1/350 version accordingly.   [Besides, who am I to argue with a Greenie?]

 

Last night I fitted the PE prop guards, finished gluing the upper funnel band, did the final couple of PE doors, and re-sited the resin fairleads further outboard on the fo’c’s’le.  

 

But you’ll have to take my word for it because my phone battery was flat so I took no pics!  I’m out tonight, but tomorrow I plan to do the port bow fairleads, which should get me ready for primer... though I am still slightly niggling away with the idea of adding the spurnwater riund the deck edge.  It’s surprisingly prominent even at a distance - a clear line visible in that shot above and on Rothesay (at least, where there aren’t rows of matelots manning ship!).  It would look wrong if over-scale, though.  I might experiment with some 0.1mm wire and see how it looks.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Ex-FAAWAFU

[Terry1954]

1 hour ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

though I am still slightly niggling away with the idea of adding the spurnwater riund the deck edge

I agree it would look wrong if over-scale, but you did manage that splendidly around the bridge roof? Just saying ............ 😁