Sgt.Squarehead Posted August 12, 2018 Share Posted August 12, 2018 I've been looking at the various possibilities for Trumpeter's T-54/55/Type 59 range and this one appeals quite a lot: Type 59-II They are kind of famous: Does anyone know what changes need to be made to a basic Type 59 (T-54 clone) other than the obvious L7 105mm gun? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old pro Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 There are a couple of changes needed, the gun whilst similar is not the same as the L7 the fume extractor is off set towards the turret compared to an L7 the other major change needed would be the bulge on the hull rear to accommodate the larger fan ( like the T 62) , spare track on the glacis. other than that it depends then on what you want to model, turret stowage baskets, slat armour side skirts, laser rangefinder, and different fire control system ( different gunners sights) different lights are all optional, like its Russian counterpart it has undergone various upgrades and changes during its life, but the basic tank is still a T 54. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 Thanks Simon, apologies for not replying earlier, I'd kind of given up hope.....I'm planning on modelling one of the Tiananmen tanks, so it looks like the gun and the bulge for the fan are the only big changes.....Don't suppose you have a picture of the bulge at all, not entirely sure what I should be making there? Would it be this bit (right lower hull): If so I reckon I can cobble something together without too much difficulty. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old pro Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 Yep just that😀. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 Thanks again Simon, especially for the tip on the gun, I'd have missed that out of sheer 'it's a L7 complacency'.....I'll probably slice the muzzle and fume extractor off the spare L7 from my Revell M48 and make the rest of the tube with plastic rod/tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niall Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 I think the entire gun is rotated, not just the fume extractor. I can't see why the fume extractor would be changed otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsman Posted September 2, 2018 Share Posted September 2, 2018 When he said "offset" he meant that the fume extractor can is further towards the breech end and closer to the mantlet than is usual with L7/M68s, not that it is offset on the barrel. The only L7 version I'm aware of with an "odd" fume extractor is the Bofors-built version in the S Tank. That had a fully concentric fume extractor, not the usual eccentric one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old pro Posted September 3, 2018 Share Posted September 3, 2018 23 hours ago, Das Abteilung said: When he said "offset" he meant that the fume extractor can is further towards the breech end and closer to the mantlet than is usual with L7/M68s, not that it is offset on the barrel. The only L7 version I'm aware of with an "odd" fume extractor is the Bofors-built version in the S Tank. That had a fully concentric fume extractor, not the usual eccentric one. Yes that's right, the misconception is, that it is an L7 gun, whilst there is/was an L7 conversion offered by a British company as an upgrade to export tanks, the 105mm in the Type 59 II is an Austrian designed gun manufactured under license in China, hence the different position of the fume extractor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted September 4, 2018 Share Posted September 4, 2018 On 9/3/2018 at 4:26 PM, Old pro said: Yes that's right, the misconception is, that it is an L7 gun, whilst there is/was an L7 conversion offered by a British company as an upgrade to export tanks, the 105mm in the Type 59 II is an Austrian designed gun manufactured under license in China, hence the different position of the fume extractor That's interesting. The gun in those pictures at the top has so many L7 features: the reinforcement around the muzzle, the proportions of the bore evacuator and the way it attaches to the barrel, the taper between the mantlet and the evacuator. And, comparing it with tanks that use the L7, it's hard to see any difference in the overall proportions. Wikipedia (I know ...) says the Chinese gun was a licensed version of the L7, but also says it was licensed from Austria, which so far as I know has never built anything that used the gun. On the other hand, they had the L7 in the M60 and the French 105mm in the Kurassier, and my expectation would be that if they needed replacements they'd find it easier to buy them in than to design something new but so similar. So, I'm baffled. Can you give more details? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old pro Posted September 5, 2018 Share Posted September 5, 2018 (edited) The Austrian actually produced their own tank guns, albeit licensed copies of the L7/M68 and the French one, so the similarities with the L7 should not be surprising, I am only surmising that the differences between the L7 and the Chinese version are just to get round copyright, and that they are basically the same otherwise. If you look at the Tiran fitted with the M68 and the Type 59 II/ 69/80/88 etc (in Chinese service, as there are also pictures of the actual L7 variant ) the main recognition feature is the position of the fume extractor being slightly further back along the barrel. well that's just blown my whole theory! Should have looked at a picture of a Tiran first! 😳😳😳 it seems the the fume extractor position is the same, which means that the whole gun is mounted further into the turret than on western tanks ( must be to do with the trunnions) but something to think about when taking whichever kit you are using the gun from. my mistake sorry😳😳😱 Edited September 5, 2018 by Old pro False information 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 5, 2018 Author Share Posted September 5, 2018 Interesting, I hadn't thought to look at a Tiran.. Looks like I'm going to be OK with a shortened kit tube.....I'll be eyeballing it, so it's all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 Quote the other major change needed would be the bulge on the hull rear to accommodate the larger fan ( like the T 62) Are you sure that this bulge appeared with the type 59- II? IMHO it appered with the Type 69, and the Iraqui tank of the photo is a type 69-II. There is a difference in the section of the hull, scarcely visible from above, distinguishing Type 59 and 69. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 Massimo appears to be correct, the bulge only came with the Type 69. That's one less job then, leaving the gun and that's about it.....I could really push the boat out and make a tarp for the DShK I suppose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old pro Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 You are right, the bulge first appeared on the type 69, with the type 59 being a copy of the T 54, that said the type 59 II appeared after the type 69 it incorporated features of the type 69 including the upgraded engine and the 105mm gun amongst other things, so one would assume the larger fan, hence the bulge. The two diamond shaped oil filler caps on the rear slope are indicative of a type 69 certainly, but wouldn't these also be on the Type 59 II?, the picture of the type 69 is also described as a Type 59 II depending on where you look, so it's not helpful with the same tank being a Type 59 II and Type 69, unfortunately I know of no definitive pictures showing all around a type 59 II usually they are only from the front. As with most Chinese equipment, there is a lot more information on newer equipment than on older, until Norinco release a book like the Russians 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 It would be good to know if Type 59 II was produced in parallel with the type 69-II or if it was an update of already existing tanks. The Iraqui tank in the photo has a 100 mm gun instead of the 105 utilized on the tanks of Tien An Men Square, so the indication type 59-II is probably wrong for the Iraqui photo. At this point, one could hope that Chinese manufacturers have good documents on the tanks of their own country and see how Takom has resolved this. They detected the difference in the hull of type 59 and 69 (even if only after their first release, Trumpeter ìs Type 69-II has the same hull of the type 59). Have Takom released some type 59-II too? Quote I've been looking at the various possibilities for Trumpeter's T-54/55/Type 59 range and this one appeals quite a lot: About the kit of Trumpeter, it is somewhat out of proportions. Will you try some corrections, or you are projecting a kit out of the box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old pro Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Completely forgetting that I am part of the Chinese military vehicle FB page! Finally found a picture of the rear of the Type 59 II 105mm version and much to my shame, no bulge and no oil filler caps😳 So even though they upgraded the engine, the layout didn't change. We are talking about the 1/72 kit and not the earlier 1/35, although not perfect it doesn't have the proportional errors of the larger kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 5 hours ago, Massimo Tessitori said: About the kit of Trumpeter, it is somewhat out of proportions. Will you try some corrections, or you are projecting a kit out of the box? Simple is always better, but I'd be interested to know more about the proportion issues.....At present I have (IIRC) three Trumpeter kits, these will become/are becoming: T-54 (Black Dog conversion, Zedval turned barrel & extras, OKB wheels, tracks & etch) T-55 Enigma (Black Dog conversion, Zedval turned barrel & extras, kit tracks) Type 59-II (L7 type gun & a tarpaulin, possibly OKB wheels, tracks & etch).....This one has a particular appeal! This will leave me with two Trumpeter turrets spare.....I was planning on using these on the Revell hull, much as @badger has done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted September 12, 2018 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Are we speaking about the model in 1/35 or 1/72? I have taken into consideration only the 1/35, that has bad issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 12, 2018 Author Share Posted September 12, 2018 1/72.....It has a few issues of its own, but they're mostly fairly cosmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modlrfleck Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Does anyone have any idea about the turret # of the Type 59 that confronted "Tank Man"? I have seen a video which confirms it started with 10 but the last number is not visible . It may make logical sense that it was 101 however given that was the format on all the tanks 101-, 201- etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 These pictures might be of interest to you @Sgt.Squarehead. I took them at the Tank Museum in Dorset last year, where they have a Type 59 painted up as a Tien An Men Square example. Can't vouch for its total accuracy, but I volunteer there as a modeller, and can probably ask more about it when I'm next there (23rd March). Let me know if that's of use. Meanwhile, if you double click on this image, it will take you to my Flickr album of the exhibit (19 pictures). Also, if there are any other close up parts you need more pictures on, let me know, and I'll try my best. HTH Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimo Tessitori Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) Hi, this Type 59 looks atypical in some respects, for example the AA cupola is lying over some non standard thick plate, as if it was recovered from another tank with a part of the plate around it. There is a strange box on the rear of the turret, I could be wrong but it is new for me. What is the origin of the tank? Ex Iraq? Ex Israel? Edited February 21 by Massimo Tessitori Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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