Andre B Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Giorgio N said: The Esci and Fujimi Phantoms are so similar that many parts can be exchanged between the two kits and fit perfectly... rumour is that both were molded by a company named Suntak, that was also responsible for other Esci kits of the days like the F-100s, the F-5s and the Harriers. All these moulds were among the best ever issued by Esci and really most still hold their own today in terms of mould finesse and external detail. The Italeri kit predates the Esci one by several years and is not related, however there are several similarities between these, for example the way the cokpit is treated. I'd not be surprised to find that the italeri kit somehow influenced the Japanese designers... I am well aware of the differences between the mentioned kits and agree with you. I have them all. But a lot of Esci kits and figures as well was made of Italaerei on order from Esci. That doesn't mean that the kits has to be similar. Just that they share mouldmaker and in that share familybands. When it comes to 1/72 scale Napoleonic figures for example it stands clear that the same artist made the figurines for both Esci and Italeri. But it is unclear if he worked for Esci or Italeri when the Esci figures was made and who made the mould. And when it comes to figures Italeri made their own figures after Esci made their's. As you wrote it is an romour that Suntak made the moulds for Esci kit. But it's just in romour and it's not sure of what moulds was made by Italaerei. When it comes to diffence between kits I am not surpriced as Esci as well as other company's could make an order to an outside company as Italaerei (or Suntak) for kits, moulds etc made by their own specifications and filosophy. Scalemates just tells us who boxed and sold the first kit an who reissued it. They doesn't say who constructed and made the moulds. If they where made "inhouse" or by an outside operator as Suntak or Italaerei... Cheers / André Edited August 17, 2018 by Andre B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 37 minutes ago, Andre B said: I am well aware of the differences between the mentioned kits and agree with you. I have them all. But a lot of Esci kits and figures as well was made of Italaerei on order from Esci. That doesn't mean that the kits has to be similar. Just that they share mouldmaker and in that share familybands. When it comes to 1/72 scale Napoleonic figures for example it stands clear that the same artist made the figurines for both Esci and Italeri. But it is unclear if he worked for Esci or Italeri when the Esci figures was made and who made the mould. And when it comes to figures Italeri made their own figures after Esci made their's. As you wrote it is an romour that Suntak made the moulds for Esci kit. But it's just in romour and it's not sure of what moulds was made by Italaerei. When it comes to diffence between kits I am not surpriced as Esci as well as other company's could make an order to an outside company as Italaerei (or Suntak) for kits, moulds etc made by their own specifications and filosophy. Scalemates just tells us who boxed and sold the first kit an who reissued it. They doesn't say who constructed and made the moulds. If they where made "inhouse" or by an outside operator as Suntak or Italaerei... Cheers / André Just to put things straight, it's a rumour that Suntak made the Phantom for both Esci and Fujimi but it's a fact that Suntak made moulds for Esci for a number of kits, including the Phantoms. Esci never did any mould, all their kits were commissioned to other companies that had the facilities to do this. Italeri was one of the very first companies contracted by Esci but I don't know how many aircraft kits they made, I suspect only a few if any. The deal with Italeri fell at some point, IIRC in the late '70s and all later Esci kits were made by other companies. The Phantoms were sure not made by Italeri as it's known that Suntak made them. Back then Italeri were simply not capable of making moulds to the level of the Esci Phantoms and personally I feel that they have yet to achieve the same quality even 30+ years later... The 1/72 figures are indeed from the same hand but keep in mind that Italeri did not have such products for many years and they only started making them after Esci closed down, so in a sense the Italeri figures are a continuation of the Esci line. There was a good history of Esci on an Italian discussion forum, unfortunately this seems to have been removed. Should I find it again, I'll post a link. It's in Italian but an online translator may help. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualModel98 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 So I decided to go buy kits from Hasegawa and Academy to compare. I went to buy the 1/72 Hasegawa QF-4E with their latest mold albeit a bit old and the Academy F-4J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualModel98 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Comparing the level of details for a few parts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualModel98 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualModel98 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Hasegawa landing gear This is the Academy landing gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualModel98 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Hasegawa versus Academy exhaust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CasualModel98 Posted September 17, 2018 Author Share Posted September 17, 2018 Finally the Academy kit came with a truckload of weapons. The Hasegawa kit is weaponless, not just because this is the QF-4E kit but it has been like this for the past many F-4E boxings. The Hasegawa kit cost over 2X more than the Academy kit. Go figure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Yeah the Hasegawa kits are almost entirely devoid of munitions. Hasegawa wants you to purchase the weapons separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 For what it's worth, until something newer/better comes along in 1/72, I also think the newer Hasegawa F-4G is your best bet, with the caveats and suggestions for improvement already noted. When you get the kit, here's a link that might be useful when it comes to detailing your F-4G. Mike http://www.ausairpower.net/TE-Weasel.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted September 17, 2018 Share Posted September 17, 2018 Those pictures show well the differences between the Hasegawa and Academy kits. The Academy kit is more detailed in several areas and shows some very neat solutions, like the full length intakes and the exhausts. At the same time however the "snap fit" nature of the Academy kit shows negatively in some details, for example the landing gear links and the wheel wells. To be fair to Hasegawa, these kits were first issued in 1990, IMHO these kits have stood very well the test of time. Regarding price, that E box is not the easiest to find but other boxes are cheaper. and when buying from the Far East the Academy F-4J and the Hasegawa F-4B/N have roughly the same price Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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