Looking for 1/72 F-4E or F-4G kit recommendation

[CasualModel98]

I am looking to build a 1/72 F-4E or F-4G kit. My googling shows me that majority of builders recommend the Hasegawa kit or the Fujimi kit. But these kits are rather crude and old.

 

I recently completed an Academy kit but for the F-4J. The level of detail for that 1/72 kit is great with fine detailed recessed panel lines and rivets, detailed landing gear, great fit, etc.  Even the AIM 9 and 7 had a lot of detail, not just bland tubes with wings. The decal was also one of the best I have used that is silky thin, does not break easily and conforms to the surface closely without even using softener.

 

But they don't have an F-4E, only F-4J and F-4B.

The available F-4E kits from Hasegawa, Tamiya and Fujimi are pretty crude by comparison. They are also based on very old molds and haven't been updated.

 

Anyone come across any other kits I can consider?

 

[iainpeden]

The only other F-4G you can get in 1/72 is the Italeri, which is probably older than either the Fujimi one (which seems pinched at the front) and the Hasegawa one (which is fiddly as it has core parts with version specific parts). It was also boxed by Tamiya.

 

Personaly, I prefer the Italeri one because the wing detail is the best of the lost, slats, antennae on the wing tips etc and it comes with both Standard and Shrike ARMs.

 

The decal sheet isn't great - very 1980s - so you might be after after market stuff; the cockpit is also minimal.

 

It rather depends on your expectations and the amount of extra work you want to put in; however, I expect the Italeri/Tamiya one will be the most available one.

 

With regard to the E; The Italeri F-4G also has parts for the F which is basically an E and you might fancy the venerable Esci kits - which also gives the option of a hardwing aircraft or the Revell F

 

Just don't go for the old Airfix kit - great for it's day (1965?) but .....

[Nigel Bunker]

14 hours ago, CasualModel98 said:

My googling shows me that majority of builders recommend the Hasegawa kit or the Fujimi kit. But these kits are rather crude and old. 

Don't get mixed up with your Hasegawa kits. Their original F-4E dates from the seventies but the new kit of the F-4E  (there are a series of 1/72 F-4s coverinf the B,C, D, E, J, N & S models plus the recce birds moulded in the late 90s/ early 2000s) is probably one of the best F-4 kits in 1/72 scale.

[XV571]

I'm intrigued as to why you consider the Hasegawa Phantoms are crude. As Nigel Bunker mentions, while it's fair to say that the original Hasegawa J79 Phantoms in their 1960s F-4J and the 1970s F-4E/EJ/F (updated in the early '80s to add a slatted wing) incarnations could match this description, the early 1990s(!!) Hasegawa mould was absolute state of the art when released and I think it is still the best 1/72 J79 Phantom kit Phamily available. Granted they don't have features such as seamless intakes, separate airbrakes or a highly detailed cockpit that now often appear in modern kits and it can be fiddly to assemble as a result of trying to squeeze all the versions out of the same basic moulds but it has a very good shape and the recessed panel lines are comparable to the best of more recent kits. If it's a must, there are seamless intakes available from X-Mold Modelling (http://xmold-modeling.com/products-information/). Quickboost and others make some very nice resin seats, wheels and jet pipes. Eduard have several etch sets for the kit and, if you're brave, there is an Aires cockpit for the F-4G. Hasegawa only provided basic missiles as they intended that modellers would then have to buy their separate weapons sets which had much more detailed versions, although these have probably been superseded by more modern options in resin from the likes of Eduard's Brassin range.

 

The slightly earlier (late 80s) 1/72 Fujimi F-4s moved into second place after the Hasegawa kit was released but the cockpit is poor and the long nose version is slightly off (I think it has been suggested as being a little too angled downwards). The Italeri (reboxed by Tamiya and Bilek) F-4E/F/G is okay but the cockpit and the seats are woeful. The inboard pylons are also too shallow and the kit lacks virtually all the antennae present on the F-4G. The contemporary ESCI F-4s, while different kits, suffered similar issues. The later Revell F-4F & RF-4E, although very detailed and superbly moulded, suffer from numerous shape issues similar to their 1/32 kits. Note that while the Academy F-4J is very nice it suffers similar issues to it's 1/48 sibling, for many the most visible of which is the too far inboard outer panel line on the stabilators. I feel that some details are also a bit clunky due to the snap-together features and it would be nice to have had an open canopy option. Personally I think the kit's rivet detail is overdone - Phantoms don't have masses of visible fastener lines on the airframe but obviously people's opinions differ on this. It doesn't seem likely Academy will do another version, a F-4B was rumoured long before the J was released and I would have expected at least a F-4D in Korean markings to have appeared by now. There's also no signs of a new tool Academy F-4E in 1/48 despite the RoKAF being a major user so I don't see one in 1/72 appearing from them.

 

Platz are planning a 1/72 F-4EJKai https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235037980-172-mcdd-f-4ej-phantom-ii-new-tool-by-platz-release-in-2019/ which will only have a 'hard wing' option with Kai specific features, Unless an aftermarket manufacturer produces a slatted wing conversion similar to those for the 1/32 Tamiya kit, I don't see an alternative to the long nose Hasegawa Phantoms in the near future. Of the model companies, Airfix are unlikely to expand beyond the Spey powered versions; Revell will be happy to continue with their F-4s (and the ex-Monogram F-4C/D/J), as will Italeri (including their ex-ESCI moulds). Tamiya don't really do new 1/72 (their F-16 being a notable exception). That leaves us with Meng (1/72 appears to have stalled for them after the F-106A and G-91), Trumpeter/Hobbyboss (could be interesting), Eduard (huge backlog of mostly WWII projects) or maybe Tan Models (rumoured to be planning a 1/32 F-4E but might be receptive to calls for a smaller scale kit in the future).

 

Maybe by combining the Italeri kit with the Revell F-4F this could address some of the latter's worst areas to get a half decent F-4G without breaking the bank. Alternatively you could try the same with the Academy F-4J. You'd still need to sort the aft cockpit and antennae fit though; but this applies to any of the kits although Hasegawa at least gave you a decal resembling the WSO's instrument panel.

 

To conclude a long post, I honestly think the Hasegawa Phantom is your best option for an decent F-4G (or F-4E) without a huge amount of aftermarket, cross-kitting and/or scratchbuilding being necessary. The trickiest part will be finding a 1/72 Hasegawa F-4G kit for something less than a King's ransom! Unfortunately Hasegawa only seem interested in re-issuing the F-4EJ with different markings for their domestic market. Except for a very limited edition 'QF-4E' about a year ago I don't remember their slatted F-4E, F or G being available for quite a long time.

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

[CasualModel98]

Thanks all for your comprehensive replies. 

I got the Hasegawa 1/72 F-4E kit, the one with the shark teeth and the decal said printed in 2003, in my stash. Will probably work on that one for now. 

Just completed the Academy F-4J but lost the rear landing gear (thats another post).

 

 

  

[dalea]

Sounds like you have the old tool Hasegawa F-4E, Kit no. 00332, the plastic for which dates back to 1972. XV571, is  I think, referring to the new tool which Hasegawa does indeed recycle  as the RF-EJ.

[Hook]

In addition to the points above - Hasegawa's new tool F-4G is the only 1/72nd kit that has the correct "cloverleaf" antennae panel on the side of the nose. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Hook

[Silverkite]

21 hours ago, XV571 said:

The trickiest part will be finding a 1/72 Hasegawa F-4G kit for something less than a King's ransom! Unfortunately Hasegawa only seem interested in re-issuing the F-4EJ with different markings for their domestic market. Except for a very limited edition 'QF-4E' about a year ago I don't remember their slatted F-4E, F or G being available for quite a long time.

 

I shall excuse myself for the rant

 

<WHEN IT INCLUDES THINLY VEILED PROFANITY, WE WON'T EXCUSE YOU FOR THE RANT.  ANY PROFANITY, WHETHER OBFUSCATED OR OTHERWISE IS NOT WANTED NOR NEEDED ON THIS FORUM>

 

Luigi

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Mike
Removing profanity riddled post

[Murph]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 6:42 PM, XV571 said:

The trickiest part will be finding a 1/72 Hasegawa F-4G kit for something less than a King's ransom!

I have one in the stash that I picked up from an estate sale, outside of that Hasegawa seems to have something against the kit, reissuing it once every other blue moon.  The Aires resin cockpit for it is a thing of beauty, but I have yet to try and fit it into the kit, which is always an adventure with Aires resin aftermarket items.

 

Regards,

Murph

Edited August 14, 2018 by Murph

[Phantome]

Hasegawa all the way... if you can get them. The only ones in their "standard" (i.e. always available) range are the F-4B/N and F-4EJ, the latter which could presumably be used for an early, Vietnam War era F-4E? Haven't checked the parts list but the only main differences might be antenna placements since early F-4Es had the hard wing.

 

I like the Fujimi shape and have built a pair recently. They have a low parts count which makes them relatively easy to build although there are some fit issues and things like the spine will need sanding to eliminate the rather unsightly seam (which also means re-scribing the circular panels and for USAF versions the air refueling panel). Unlike the Hasegawa they also come with basic AA weapons (Sparrows and Sidewinders). I am literally in the process of finishing up an F-4G which includes the ALQ-119 pod and pylon. This would be accurate for aircraft up until the mid 80s when they switched to ALQ-131s or ALQ-184s, notably in use during the Gulf War. Sadly no G-specific weaponry is included, which you will have to source from elsewhere.

 

Two main disappointments with the Fujimi kit: first, as others mentioned, the cockpit with is quite plain, and even lacks a back wall for the pilot area. I presume you may fit the Eduard zoom set on this though? Haven't tried. Secondly, the aircraft features fine engraved panel lines... perhaps too fine. I found them difficult to get an enamel wash going.

 

But in the end though, it looks the part! I have two Hasegawa F-4Gs in the stash, however, and they look so much better. They also lack armament though. They are quite rare on eBay, with only a few popping up each year and typically go for £30-40 which if you think about it, is probably cheaper than if Hasegawa reboxed it! Same for the Es although there are more boxings of this kit which means they pop up a bit more frequently and can occasionally be found on Japanese hobby sites at not too shabby prices. Lastly, if you manage to source some slotted stabilizers, you could turn the Revell F-4F into an E since that's the only main exterior difference. It's not a shabby kit at all, and has even better surface detail than the Hasegawa, although it has some shape issues. You'll also find it quite cheap, with eBay prices of around £10-15.

 

As XV571 said, the prospects of new F-4 kits in 1/72 look bleak, and we'll probably have to wait until the next decade. As it stands, the Hasegawa is still the Phantom King for every variant except the UK Speys (Fujimi own this one). I still wholeheartedly recommend the Fujimi if you can find it at acceptable prices.

 

[Phantome]

Just to add a gripe to my previous comment, I still find it unbelievable that Revell has never bothered to squeeze the juice out of its F-4F and put out an E/G since like 95% of the parts are the same. Marketing geniuses they are not.

 

(now someone will comment how Germany is their main market so they only care about the F, because they are marketing geniuses, in fact, all modelling companies are marketing geniuses and they know better than we do; these are the same people who lecture their engineering and research non-geniuses about how they could be dumb enough to have missed that fifth rivet in some underside panel) 😆

[Phantome]

Oh and to add a gripe to my previous gripe, also scandalous that the resin community hasn't stepped in with what would be very simple and cheap Revell E and G conversion sets. Clearly there is a bigger market in resin tires for obscure variants of obscure aircraft! ;)

[lasermonkey]

I've had the occasional grumble to myself that Revell never saw fit to include the few necessary parts for the -C in their RF-4E kit. It would save me an awful lot of faffing about.........

[Phantome]

BTW, here's how the Revell kit would look as a F-4E (the modeller cast the slotted stabilizers himself) if only Revell had bothered to mold just two extra pieces and thus cover the most widely produced Phantom ever built; or if the aftermarket community had any notion of what a market is.

 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal6/5201-5300/gal5265-F-4-Orsi/00.shtm

[fewr9fkr9595]

14 minutes ago, Phantome said:

BTW, here's how the Revell kit would look as a F-4E (the modeller cast the slotted stabilizers himself) if only Revell had bothered to mold just two extra pieces and thus cover the most widely produced Phantom ever built; or if the aftermarket community had any notion of what a market is.

 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal6/5201-5300/gal5265-F-4-Orsi/00.shtm

 

Post me those and I will cast them, send you a few pairs for your troubles and then sell them to others at cost as a conversion kit? 

[Giorgio N]

I can add very little beyond casting another vote for the new tool Hasegawa Phantom.

Regarding the Fujimi kit, the bare cockpit has been mentioned. It is possible to add an Eduard Zoom set to improve detail but this requires a lot of work for one reason: the cockpit structure in these kits is pretty fictional and the whole tub is too deep, particularly for the rear seat. This results in instrument panels that fit below where they supposed to be. Using the Eduard set requires adding sprue bits to keep the panels in the right place and some more to keep the consolles at the correct level. It's not too difficult, can be done and I should know as I did this before. Worth the hassle ? IMHO only if you can't find a Hase kit

The Fujimi E/G kits also suffer from a poor representation of the intakes located above the front wheel well and the surrounding area, this can be sorted by filling and sanding but I'd rather start from a kit that captures these features correctly like the Hasegawa offering. The Esci kit suffers from the same problems

[ivand]

2 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

The Esci kit suffers from the same problems

The Esci and Fujimi F-4s share more than a vague family resemblance. Rumour has it the moulds for both were designed by the same Japanese company.

 

One interesting use for the Esci kits is as a donor for stabilizers for F-4EJ/F-4F kits to be converted into F-4E: Esci included both kinds of stabilizers.

[tempestfan]

On 8/15/2018 at 2:10 PM, Phantome said:

Just to add a gripe to my previous comment, I still find it unbelievable that Revell has never bothered to squeeze the juice out of its F-4F and put out an E/G since like 95% of the parts are the same. Marketing geniuses they are not.

 

(now someone will comment how Germany is their main market so they only care about the F, because they are marketing geniuses, in fact, all modelling companies are marketing geniuses and they know better than we do; these are the same people who lecture their engineering and research non-geniuses about how they could be dumb enough to have missed that fifth rivet in some underside panel) 😆

Revell have a Long-standing policy of basically only considering subjects that yield at least three variants. With the F-4, I always arrive at only two if F and RF are counted as variants - though the moulds may predate that policy. In any case, it’s fairly certain the design data (and possibly even the moulds for the required parts) exist as its 1/32 brother has been boxed as a G and RF-C at least.

I think the message has long got through to them that they will starve to death within a year if they look too much at the hardly existing German market. It’s probably down to a product manager ignorant of what can be done with the mould. I‘d not be surprised if it’s the same who „blessed“ us with the fairly recent reissue of their P-51 crime against humanity...

[Andre B]

On 8/15/2018 at 10:16 PM, Phantome said:

BTW, here's how the Revell kit would look as a F-4E (the modeller cast the slotted stabilizers himself) if only Revell had bothered to mold just two extra pieces and thus cover the most widely produced Phantom ever built; or if the aftermarket community had any notion of what a market is.

 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal6/5201-5300/gal5265-F-4-Orsi/00.shtm

Has ever anyone told Revell this as well concerning the other missing parts for an F-4G?

 

Cheers / André

[Andre B]

20 hours ago, ivand said:

The Esci and Fujimi F-4s share more than a vague family resemblance. Rumour has it the moulds for both were designed by the same Japanese company.

 

One interesting use for the Esci kits is as a donor for stabilizers for F-4EJ/F-4F kits to be converted into F-4E: Esci included both kinds of stabilizers.

I would say that the Italeri and Esci kits comes from the same family and are not related to Fujimi. Wasn' a lot of the Esci moulds made by Italeri (Italaerei).

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESCI

 

Cheers / André

Edited August 17, 2018 by Andre B

[lasermonkey]

Having recently built the Esci and Fujimi kits side by side (and an Italeri kit not that long ago) I can say for sure that there's much more in common between the first two than the latter. In fact, the Esci and Fujimi kits are surprisingly close in places.

 

Cheers,

Mark.

[Phantome]

2 hours ago, Andre B said:

I would say that the Italeri and Esci kits comes from the same family and are not related to Fujimi. Wasn' a lot of the Esci moulds made by Italeri (Italaerei).

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESCI

 

Cheers / André

 

Although Italeri inherited the ESCI molds, it has not repackaged any of the ESCI F-4s until quite recently with its F-4D/J kit.

As such, the ESCI and Italeri F-4s are completely different beasts, the latter having raised panel lines.

 

You can see the full history of the ESCI molds here: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/122492-esci-9027-f-4e-f-mc-donnell-douglas

Edited August 17, 2018 by Phantome

[tempestfan]

2 hours ago, Andre B said:

I would say that the Italeri and Esci kits comes from the same family and are not related to Fujimi. Wasn' a lot of the Esci moulds made by Italeri (Italaerei).

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESCI

 

Cheers / André

While Esci and Italeri cooperated in the early 70s apparently on military vehicles, their respective F-4s are entirely unrelated, as has been mentioned. The Italeri kits predate the Escis by a few years and were co-financed by Testors, hence they had a Testors logo engraved somewhere (IIRC, at least their bigger brothers had). The Escis are much more optimised for a „family“ policy, just like Fujimi. I doubt that many Esci moulds were made by Italeri, at least aircraft, as the design philosophies are substantially different. Not many  Italeri kits contemporary to the Esci F-4s have engraved details, and those that have (B-66, B-58) are markedly different in execution, e. g. somewhat less sharp and a slightly grainy surface texture.

[Giorgio N]

The Esci and Fujimi Phantoms are so similar that many parts can be exchanged between the two kits and fit perfectly... rumour is that both were molded by a company named Suntak, that was also responsible for other Esci kits of the days like the F-100s, the F-5s and the Harriers. All these moulds were among the best ever issued by Esci and really most still hold their own today in terms of mould finesse and external detail.

The Italeri kit predates the Esci one by several years and is not related, however there are several similarities between these, for example the way the cokpit is treated. I'd not be surprised to find that the italeri kit somehow influenced the Japanese designers...

[tempestfan]

Don’t forget the F-15, another finely moulded kit. Thereafter, it was steeply downhill...