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Artoor_K

Sherman from 1984 "Tank" movie - 1/35 - WIP

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Hello,

 

I'd like to start my first tank model in my modelling history. I want to make a miniature of Sherman from "Tank" movie from 1984 with James Garner. And of course I have a problem. I know that it is M4A3, I've read about it. But I have no idea which set I can use. It looks like this one:

https://exito.sklep.pl/pl/p/ASUKA-TASCA-35032-135-US-Medium-Tank-M4-Sherman-Late-Fay/32917

 

...but it's late M4 😳

 

This is real one, Sherman from exactly this movie.

43960932031_f46d77fe8b_o.jpg_BrzEg8gBmk___KGrHqUOKi0EvPW0knWWBL1N1_jHJw___3 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

43960931981_98531a04ca_o.jpg_BrzEiVwB2k___KGrHqIOKjIEvNqjcYH9BL1N1E_TuQ___3 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

42152371820_915f77ffed_o.jpg_BrzEkZw_Wk___KGrHqIOKkIEvOEh1_4hBL1N1Kw5oQ___3 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

43960932691_8a70d91e24_o.jpg05_M4_A3_75mm_SHERMAN by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

 

Which set can I buy to model exactly this tank? Guys, help!

Edited by Artoor_K

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I'd suggest searching Scalemates for models of M4A3s, I know a few companies sell a model, such as Tamiya, which should suit your purposes. However, I don't know what that item above the left headlight is, so that might be something you have to scratch build.

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10 minutes ago, Sairou said:

I'd suggest searching Scalemates for models of M4A3s, I know a few companies sell a model, such as Tamiya, which should suit your purposes. However, I don't know what that item above the left headlight is, so that might be something you have to scratch build.

That was my first shot. Unfortunately, there is no such 1/35 model that has enlargered front hatches and additional armor on them. So I'm asking...

Only Asuka set mentioned above has them. But this is not M4A3. I've outlined these areas on photo. 

43056799815_20fdd61258_o.jpgzaznaczenie by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

 

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49 minutes ago, Artoor_K said:

That was my first shot. Unfortunately, there is no such 1/35 model that has enlargered front hatches and additional armor on them. So I'm asking...

Only Asuka set mentioned above has them. But this is not M4A3. I've outlined these areas on photo. 

43056799815_20fdd61258_o.jpgzaznaczenie by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

 

I'm definitely not well-versed in M4 types, so my help is going to be limited. Luckily for you, there are a few Sherman buffs on this forum, who will hopefully respond in due time.

Have you looked for resin conversion sets? They might be able to deliver this modification. Or, since those are relatively simple shapes, you could scratchbuild them.
I'd also advise that the Asuka M4, while being a lovely kit, might give you some grief as a first tank model. Personally, I would attempt to modify a Tamiya version, because it'd be a far less costly investment if things go south.

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interesting...

I know nothing of shermans, and as you say all the kits seem to be the flat chested ones.

this site:

http://www.theshermantank.com/the-sherman-tank-variant-page-pages-for-each-type-of-sherman-tank/the-sherman-m4a3-medium-tank/

 does not mentien anything about the enlarged hatches.

 

would a Dragon Firefly or M4A4 work and cross kit it?

the hull seems to match.

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Looking at your photo, you want an early M4A3 with small hatches. The Tamiya one is no good as although it is a 75mm turret, it has a commander's and loader's hatch (you want the early single hatch) and the hull has the large hatches. One route that you could take would be to use the Tamiya M4 as it has the single hatch turret and the applique armour in front of the driver' and gunner's hatches. But you would need to change the engine deck for an M4A3 one. Tiger Model Designs might do one.

HTH's.

 

John. 

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I've just done a search for images from the movie and found this one -

tank-1984-james-garner.jpg

 

This is an M4 with cast hull hatch mounts, not an M4A3

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Are we looking at two different tanks here? Or one that has been altered for the film. The first ones that Artoor posted are an M4A3, look at the engine deck and the exhaust deflector. But the one that Niall posted is different. Look at the applique in front of the hoods. Or is this a "Hollywood" Sherman?

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4 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

Are we looking at two different tanks here? Or one that has been altered for the film. The first ones that Artoor posted are an M4A3, look at the engine deck and the exhaust deflector. But the one that Niall posted is different. Look at the applique in front of the hoods. Or is this a "Hollywood" Sherman?

You're right! The one from movie has a number on turret. Sherman from museum photos doesn't! There is no cast numer there! There are two different tanks. Okay , how to model the one from museum photos?

 

Hull from this one:

https://www.mojehobby.pl/products/U.S.-Medium-Tank-M4-Sherman-Early-Production.html

 

...with rest from this:

https://www.mojehobby.pl/products/US-Medium-Tank-M4A3-Sherman-75mm-Gun-Late-Production.html

 

OR, buy this one, to model exact tank from movie. There are a lot of unused parts to other versions. Only exhaust deflector needs to be scratchbuilt:

https://www.mojehobby.pl/products/British-Army-Sherman-3-Mid-Production-with-Cast-Drivers-Hood.html

 

I've read an article on Armorama...that there are no model of this Sherman...Are they right?

 

I'm more into S-F, I know nothing about Shermans :)

 

Some screens from movie:

30101427458_a776e37945_b.jpgi153558 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

29031981707_9c34fd273f_b.jpgcapture6xva2.5218 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

30101427618_536b159379_b.jpgcapture6rsnpf2.6180 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

30101427848_5b5be1f839_b.jpgcapture6vww9.695 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

30101427938_a55e941f4b_b.jpgthe-tank by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

 

 

 

Edited by Artoor_K

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It's a minefield trawling through all the different versions of the Sherman. But what you've suggested there is the way that I'd go. Tamiya M4 and convert it with parts from the Tamiya M4A3. You don't want the Asuka British Sherman lll kit. That's a diesel engined M4A2.

Good luck with it.

 

John.

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2 hours ago, Bullbasket said:

It's a minefield trawling through all the different versions of the Sherman. But what you've suggested there is the way that I'd go. Tamiya M4 and convert it with parts from the Tamiya M4A3. You don't want the Asuka British Sherman lll kit. That's a diesel engined M4A2.

Good luck with it.

  

John.

So...I got an inexpensive solution :D I have hobby shop near my home where both Shermans are available :) 

 

Many thanks for everyone :D

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...but M4A3 model from Tamiya with 105 mm instead of m4A375 mm is better...because of single commander hatch. I will have this hatch, engine deck and exhaust at once :)

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This website may be of help. There seems to be quite a number of alternative M4 chassis and conversions.

 

Regards,

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What's with the viewports in the applique in this picture:

 

30101427618_536b159379_b.jpg&key=239c76e

 

Is that a real thing?  Doesn't look like a DV hull so why would it even need them?  :shrug:

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The museum tank looks like a late-war or post-war rebuild, and it clearly isn't the one from the film.  It has the vision cupola on a single-hatch turret, the torsion bar engine hatches, open engine hatch rests and the late rear fenders.  I think it may be an ex-French M4A3 as they re-fitted these parts post war.  And many preserved Shermans, especially those used by film rental companies, are "frankentanks" put together from survivor pieces. 

 

The item on the antenna base on the hull of the museum tank looks like a boat horn.  These will be available in model boat supplies.  The film tank has a loudspeaker on the mantlet: more difficult to find or make, but possibly something in the boat world again.  The "vision windows" on the front applique plates are just Hollywood Fluff.  Indeed the whole front applique plates are odd: note how they are also incorrectly boxed-in at the sides, with no weld marks.

 

Most, if not all, M4A3 kits have the later large-hatch hull so some sort of cross-kitting will be required for the museum tank.  I can't think of a small-hatch M4A3 kit in 1/35.  Small-hatch M4A3s were hardly the most common M4 variant.  I'm not sure that we can tell from the film still exactly what variant of M4 was used in the film, although there are many that it can't be.  My money would be on a mid-ish production M4, as noted above.

 

TWS have a couple of resin applique plate sets, at least one including the beading for the hull MG cover, but these are easily made from plastic card.  As noted above, TMD offer all the Sherman conversion parts you could possibly want - if you have a fat wallet.  I think you will need a resin upper hull if you want to copy this museum vehicle exactly because of the rear end differences: swapping engine hatches on an M4 won't work.  If we assume that the film vehicle was a vanilla M4 with a loudspeaker and a jerrycan on the turret, then your choices are very much better and simpler.

 

But I have to ask - why out of 49,000-odd real Shermans do you want to copy a spurious vehicle from an old film or a flawed replica of that spurious vehicle when both are obviously mocked-up in some way or another?  Especially when the amount of cross-kitting and/or resin will be significant and expensive.

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On 9/7/2018 at 9:49 AM, Das Abteilung said:

The museum tank looks like a late-war or post-war rebuild, and it clearly isn't the one from the film.  It has the vision cupola on a single-hatch turret, the torsion bar engine hatches, open engine hatch rests and the late rear fenders.  I think it may be an ex-French M4A3 as they re-fitted these parts post war.  And many preserved Shermans, especially those used by film rental companies, are "frankentanks" put together from survivor pieces. 

 

The item on the antenna base on the hull of the museum tank looks like a boat horn.  These will be available in model boat supplies.  The film tank has a loudspeaker on the mantlet: more difficult to find or make, but possibly something in the boat world again.  The "vision windows" on the front applique plates are just Hollywood Fluff.  Indeed the whole front applique plates are odd: note how they are also incorrectly boxed-in at the sides, with no weld marks.

 

Most, if not all, M4A3 kits have the later large-hatch hull so some sort of cross-kitting will be required for the museum tank.  I can't think of a small-hatch M4A3 kit in 1/35.  Small-hatch M4A3s were hardly the most common M4 variant.  I'm not sure that we can tell from the film still exactly what variant of M4 was used in the film, although there are many that it can't be.  My money would be on a mid-ish production M4, as noted above.

 

TWS have a couple of resin applique plate sets, at least one including the beading for the hull MG cover, but these are easily made from plastic card.  As noted above, TMD offer all the Sherman conversion parts you could possibly want - if you have a fat wallet.  I think you will need a resin upper hull if you want to copy this museum vehicle exactly because of the rear end differences: swapping engine hatches on an M4 won't work.  If we assume that the film vehicle was a vanilla M4 with a loudspeaker and a jerrycan on the turret, then your choices are very much better and simpler.

 

But I have to ask - why out of 49,000-odd real Shermans do you want to copy a spurious vehicle from an old film or a flawed replica of that spurious vehicle when both are obviously mocked-up in some way or another?  Especially when the amount of cross-kitting and/or resin will be significant and expensive.

I know, these are very good points...but...well...call it as you want....

Now I'm 33..."Tank" was one of the first movies that my parents allowed me to watch from start to begining (next was "Top Gun" and "Final Countdown"). I have a big sentiment to this particular movie and I really want a model of this Sherman. This is a whole reason - just sentiment and a nice memories from childhood.

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And amen to that.  If that's what you really want to do, who are we to criticise?  We can have Paper Panzers and we can have Fury, so why not the Tank tank.  I suppose I was concerned that you believed it to be an accurate representation and might run into some flak over it.

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3 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

And amen to that.  If that's what you really want to do, who are we to criticise?  We can have Paper Panzers and we can have Fury, so why not the Tank tank.  I suppose I was concerned that you believed it to be an accurate representation and might run into some flak over it.

Well, I'm a SF modeller. Word "accurate" gives me a headache 😁 I know that this can be Hollywood Sherman or mock up and I can assure you-I only want my childhood tank without going nuts over it😁

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There must have been more than one Sherman used in the movie.

In Artook's post of the stills the 3rd and 4th pics are different tanks.

In the 3rd pic there's a casting number D65454 on the left side of the gun mantle (above the co-ax) and in the 4th pic 2629 is visible albeit inverted. 

So there could be other differences that'd make it difficult to model one particular vehicle.

Tom

Edit.

Does the tank in the last pic have a gun lock fitted?

Edited by Modelholic

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The thing above the right head lamp in the very first photo is a vintage-car horn

This is an example to show the general shape, not the size

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/110db-12V-Car-Truck-Auto-Antique-Vintage-Old-Style-Horn-AHH-OOO-GAH-AHOOGA-OOGA/32659532902.html

I  have an original in my Austin 7; they are not small, mine is about 16 inches long - thats nearly the length of your arm from elbow to finger tips, there are/were larger ones available

 

I think the museum have put this on to replace the loudspeaker you can see in the photo of Garner out of the turret; its just above the gun barrel. Or they just needed to install a horn for to use when the tank is out and about - I would think that pedestrian warning horns were not standard fitment in battle tanks?

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1 hour ago, Modelholic said:

There must have been more than one Sherman used in the movie.

In Artook's post of the stills the 3rd and 4th pics are different tanks.

In the 3rd pic there's a casting number D65454 on the left side of the gun mantle (above the co-ax) and in the 4th pic 2629 is visible albeit inverted. 

So there could be other differences that'd make it difficult to model one particular vehicle.

Tom

Edit.

Does the tank in the last pic have a gun lock fitted?

Nope, no gun lock.

 

I'm going to put this model on a small dio using photo below:

30101427458_a776e37945_b.jpgi153558 by Arti Kapi, on Flickr

 

...so it's hard to tell which one is it :) Tommorow I will get T51 tracks. Today finally I'll show what was done already.

 

 

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On the slightly off-topic subject of Artoor's sci-fi preference, I suppose that if I can do this (below) to an E-100 Papier Panzer as a Warhammer 40k Ork Battlewagon I can't say too much about someone else copying a film tank that at least has a basis in sci-fact .......................... 

 

OK, back in the room.  If the capture stills posted above are all from the film then yes 2 tanks were used.  Similar - even down to the bogus boxed-in front applique - but not identical .  I think they call that "continuity error".  The big clue is the travel lock on one but not the other.  The one with the travel lock was also a small-hatch M4A3 but with late features like the museum tank, and it might be reasonable to assume that both film tanks were A3s.  Both film and museum tanks still also look like possibly ex-French ones or maybe late/post war US rebuilds.  Can anyone with better eyesight work out if the museum tank has the French-pattern 4-spoke pressed idler?  I can't see any spoke shadows.  Not that it matters greatly, except that being able to definitively identify it as ex-French helps with some of the other features.

q4OvQhB.jpg

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