Hurricanes

[James Craik]

Huricanes of 239 Sqn.

Edited August 1, 2018 by James Craik
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[Graham Boak]

Very interesting.   HB = 239 Sq which didn't have many Mk.Is mixed with their Mk.IIs, of which L is recorded as T9519.  So it could be a rare example from early 1942 and their time at Gatwick.

[Troy Smith]

Hi James

great shot.

You might want to PM a moderator and get this moved the the WW2 section,  and use 'edit' and then 'full edit' to change the thread heading, not least is only one  r in Hurricanes

 

going to the imgur site, the pic expands

 

serials appear to be

L=R4122,  Mk.I

K=BN373, Mk.II, possibly a IIc as there appear to be cannon barrels sticking out the wing?

S=P2949, Mk.I

 

Models of a  Mk.I and Mk.IIc in the same makings would turn a few heads!

 

they look to be in DFS, so early 1942 is quite possible, note the two Mk.I's also have smaller roundels further out on the wing.

 

thanks for posting

 

cheers

T

[Graham Boak]

Has to be early 1942, as January to May 1942 is the time 239 Sq had Hurricanes, and yes a mix of Mk.Is and Mk.IIc.

[Black Knight]

-S also has the night fighter exhaust glare shields fitted.

not that that means much

[PhoenixII]

Details of Hurricane R4122 from Dr. Colin James Pratt-Hooson's Hurricane Site

 

Serial Range R4074 - R4123 (50), R4171 - R4200 (30), R4213 - R4232 (20) Total 100

The second production batch of 100 aircraft manufactured by Gloster Aircraft Co., Brockworth. To contract 19773/39/23a. Aircraft powered by Rolls-Royce Merlin III's, with either Watts two blade fixed pitch, or De-Havilland three blade variable pitch propellers. All aircraft delivered between May 1940 and July 1940, average rate of production 2-3 aircraft per day. All aircraft manufactured with metal wings, most aircraft serving with the R.A.F. during the Battle Of Britain.

[Troy Smith]

3 hours ago, PhoenixII said:

ith either Watts two blade fixed pitch, or De-Havilland three blade variable pitch propellers. All aircraft delivered between May 1940 and July 1940, average rate of production 2-3 aircraft per day. All aircraft manufactured with metal wings, most aircraft serving with the R.A.F. during the Battle Of Britain.

The prop part looks wrong, by this stage the standard fit was the Rotol Spitfire propeller.

There is still a lot of wrong Hurricane info about, 

This has a load of information on Hurricane Mk.I performance

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/hurricane/hurricane-I.html

Note the use of constant speed props from April 1940 and mention of the Rotol unit, and this being the most common unit fitted during the BoB.

Older planes often retained the DH units, but all new planes had the Rotol, later planes in the V**** range start getting the Hurricane specific unit, the 'bullet' type usually associated with the Mk.II

 

HTH

T

[Graham Boak]

This business of odd prop statements in Pratt-Hooson's listing has recently been discussed on-line, and the end result was that it's a load of hooey.  Where was it?  Perhaps RAF Commands or maybe Flypast Historical Forum.  Sorry about failure of short-term memory.  No, you did not get Watts 2-bladers on any 1940-built Hurricanes.

 

You can add 607's Blackadder to one of the pilots reporting receiving a new Hurricane with Rotol prop in April/May 1940 - might be able to find a date if anyone is interested.  However there is also the famous story of DH re-equipping Fighter Command's vp props with their cs equivalent in July: surely that didn't only apply to Spitfires?

[larumivi1951]

Hurricane Mk.I, HB-L:

Rudolph

[PhoenixII]

20 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

This business of odd prop statements in Pratt-Hooson's listing has recently been discussed on-line, and the end result was that it's a load of hooey.  Where was it?  Perhaps RAF Commands or maybe Flypast Historical Forum.  Sorry about failure of short-term memory.  No, you did not get Watts 2-bladers on any 1940-built Hurricanes.

Here you go Graham, the web site, have a look for yourself  http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM

Just an addendum, we weren't there!

It was wartime and we, along with the French, were getting a right kicking.

We don't know what happened on delivery from Glosters to the customer, maybe, just maybe it was a matter of speed?

[Troy Smith]

19 minutes ago, PhoenixII said:

Here you go Graham, the web site, have a look for yourself  http://www.k5083.mistral.co.uk/APS.HTM

Just an addendum, we weren't there!

It was wartime and we, along with the French, were getting a right kicking.

We don't know what happened on delivery from Glosters to the customer, maybe, just maybe it was a matter of speed?

Hi Paul

 

We weren't there, but there is a mass of evidence that that in this case Pratt Hooson is wrong, did you check the link I posted?

 

21 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

There is still a lot of wrong Hurricane info about, 

This has a load of information on Hurricane Mk.I performance

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/hurricane/hurricane-I.html

Note the use of constant speed props from April 1940 and mention of the Rotol unit, and this being the most common unit fitted during the BoB.

Older planes often retained the DH units, but all new planes had the Rotol, later planes in the V**** range start getting the Hurricane specific unit, the 'bullet' type usually associated with the Mk.II

 

Without meaning to be rude Paul, and this is not meant as a source in any way, I have not seen you often posting in the Hurricane threads on here, and Graham is regular follower and contributor to them, here and elsewhere.

 

the Pratt Hooson site has not been updated in over 15 years, as he died. He was a member of IPMS Mid Sussex, and had a mass of information apparently he was trying to document every Hurricane, but the information on his site is dated, you would be surprised how much more information has come out since then.

 

But, drawing on many sources,  I have never seen a Watts 2 blade prop on anything other than a L**** serial plane, any Mk.I after that had a 3 blade unit.

The Spitfire Rotol made a significant improvement to the Hurricane, and as such was a priority item.

 

This can be seen in a survey of wrecked Hurricane photos from German sources which have been auctioned on eBay over the past 15 years, there is a thread of these on the Luftwaffe Experten Message Board.

Being a Hurricane buff, I tried to make a guide for the modeller, and with others contributions, this is the best guide I know of, anywhere.  Note there are still some unanswered questions here, but it is a work in progress.

 

One of the things that has become apparent is nearly everything about Hurricanes is usually based on the work of Francis K Mason, and there are flaws in that,  for example, a Mk.IIa series 1 Hurricane is the same length as a Mk.I, which it can't be.

There were about 100 Sea Hurricane IC built, while everything else points to a couple being made.

This incorrect bit of information is still in every Hurricane book.

 

The big problem is the Hurricane is STILL not a Spitfire and suffers from it, both in research and kit quality.

 

HTH

T

 

 

 

 

 

[gingerbob]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

The big problem is the Hurricane is STILL not a Spitfire and suffers from it, both in research and kit quality.

 

Well, the poor old dear can't help that- everything else is still not a Spitfire!

[Black Knight]

Both HB-L have the bead sight fitted.

I can't make out if S has it too, but I think it does

[MIkeMaben]

 

... and still carrying the HF TR9  in 1942 ?

 

 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Possibly the HF radio gave better communication with ground forces?  Or it just wasn't worth the expense and bother of changing it on training aircraft.

[Scooby]

On 8/3/2018 at 5:00 AM, Graham Boak said:

Possibly the HF radio gave better communication with ground forces?  Or it just wasn't worth the expense and bother of changing it on training aircraft.

No, an HF radio wouldn’t b the radio of choice to use to communicate with ground forces. The ground troops would have to lug a really big antennae around. It would be ideal to have on a training aircraft though as it is great for long range communication.

[Graham Boak]

Think back to the technology of the 1930s.  HF was the standard radio of the RAF at the start of the war and remained the standard for some years overseas.  The army did have large antennae on their tanks and wireless trucks.  Short range radio didn't come into use until the USN adopted TBS (talk between ships) in the Pacific war.

 

Having seen the size of aerials on  an FAC Strikemaster (midwing to tail) I'm not so sure that things had changed that much in the 70s.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Graham Boak