Lanchester Armoured Car, Persia 1916 - CSM 1/35

[Duckwizard]

This is my interpretation of the CSM-Lanchester, built OOB except the wooden parts. This is the Persia version according to the building instructions. All colours and clear coats are airbrushed vallejo acrylics, the weathering was done with oil paint, pigments and (insert correct english expression here 😕 - in german it would be something like "pastel crayon").

 

The "unditching boards" as well as the load floor are made from real wood.

 

I hope you like it a bit.

 

 

 

 

[Andy Moore]

That's a great looking Lanchester Michael. Nice work with the replacement wooden components.

 

Andy

[Bullbasket]

Nice job with the Lanchester A/C. I might try this one myself as it would make a great companion for my RR A/C.

 

John.

[Redcoat2966]

Nice job that......👍....nice interesting subject too

 

Simon

[Duckwizard]

Thank you all a lot for your kind words. John is that RR still available?  Did not run over it so far.

[Bullbasket]

The RR a/c that I mentioned, is by Roden. If I remember correctly, they did three different versions, a late one from the early years of WW2, one from the 1920's and a WW1 version with spoke wheels. I did the WW1 version. It needs some work, but a decent model can result. As to avilability; Hannant's in the UK have all three listed on their site, but they have listed the WW1 version as a "1944 Pattern". It should read 1914. They're not cheap though, between £50 and £56. The WW1 version is a bit more than the other two as it contains more etched brass (spokes for the wheels).

HTH's.

 

John.

[Duckwizard]

Thank you very much John, I think I found it. The 1914 version ist about 45 Euros here in Germany

 

And I found a kit für 120 Euros, made in resin. But I stay with injection moulding.

 

Thanks again!

[Duckwizard]

I added "little Persia" and a valiant british officer recently.

 

I wanted a vulture sitting on the rock but the correct species was not available ("new world" vultures would not work here). 

 

[Kingsman]

"pastel crayon" probably works in English too.  I guess you mean the dry pastel sticks that you can sand, file or grind into powder?  The things we used to use before companies like MiG started producing pre-mixed powdered products.

 

I'm not sure there are many of us who would know the right Vulture species from the wrong one .................  What about a raptor of some sort?

 

I'm shortly going to start on one of these, so this is an inspiration.

[Duckwizard]

9 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

I guess you mean the dry pastel sticks that you can sand, file or grind into powder?

Exactly, this is what I talk about. I still use them.

 

According to my "studies" the vultures in the old world have no "bare neck" like those from e. g. New Mexico. A bearded vulture aka lammergeier would be the correct one for Persia. But I think I am done now and postpone the vulture to a later project.

 

If you build a lanchester please don't forget to post pictures! I like your builds a lot. Thx for your reply and input!

[Kingsman]

Cix Models do an African Vulture in a set with a Hyena and a skull.  Would that be any better?

[Duckwizard]

Thx for your searching but I think this is a species not existing in persia.

 

I would have needed something like this with feathered neck and "beard". Hope we are not too off-topic now.

 

photo: wikipedia.de

[the South African]

The resin vulture is a cape vulture the one in your pic an egyptian vulture. Just for interest sake. 

 

Regards:

Shaun 

[Kingsman]

Some putty round the neck and a texture tool for a bit of veterinary surgery??

 

What colour did you use for the car?  Having just done several WW1 subjects I know that exact colours of that period are something of a mystery.  The kit instructions suggest the WW2 colour "RAF Light Earth" as a near match.  Photos of RR cars operating further South in Palestine suggest quite a dark colour, as do some of the Russian expedition cars.  The green colour used on tanks after the grey and before the brown was quite dark.  But the green used on other motor transport was a khaki shade.  It seems to be the case that the vehicles used by the Australian Light Car Patrol in Palestine were a pale brown colour.  One thing is clear: they did seem to get very dirty very quickly.   The majority of contemporary Lanchester photos are of the Russian expedition, followed by grey Western Front ones.  I haven't found any that are clearly in Persia.

 

This photo looks like your car at a different time and place having some TLC.  No idea where the photo was taken, and the background doesn't give much away.  Great War Forum suggests Russia or Persia.  Enlarging the image, the last digit of the serial on the removed panel looks like 4.  Interestingly, the first 2 digits are written as 15 and not 1.5.  Some of the photos I found make me think that grey tyres may have been in use into 1917, but they may just be very dusty black ones.  There's also a different tread pattern, with a flatter tread area with a pattern of small squares.  I might have a go at making a couple of these.

[Kingsman]

Thinking about it, the Lanchester numbers don't add up for all the places they're supposed to have been.  36 were built.  22 were given to Russia in Dec '15, after withdrawal from the Western Front and the Belgian loan.  All 36 had survived.  That left 14 in British service.  But 12 of these went to Russia with Cdr Locker-Lampson's ACEF force in June '16.  Although, one of David Fletcher's books says that ACEF had 33 Lanchesters in total, not 34.  It doesn't seem entirely clear if any of the 12 "British" Lanchesters with ACEF were bought home, but most other heavy equipment such as the tanks sent to aid Russia were left behind so it seems logical that they were left with the survivors of the other 22.  To bring them home they would have needed to be driven or entrained from the Crimea where they'd ended up to Murmansk where the unit was evacuated in Sept (Dec?) '17.  But in the post-revolutionary chaos getting the personnel home quickly would have been more important and a dozen old armoured cars would have been unimportant.

 

So that leaves just 2, possibly 3, Lanchesters not assigned to ACEF.  Their whereabouts and fate are unclear.  There is a photo (below) of 3 Lanchesters parked up in what is believed to be the 20 Sqn RNAS garage at Wormwood Scrubs.  Could those be the missing 3?

 

After Russia, some of the ACEF RNAS personnel then went out to the Middle East in Jan '18 under Army control to form part of Dunsterforce to defend the Baku oilfields.  In today's Azerbaijan but yesterday's Persia.  While it is therefore true that RNAS personnel served in Persia, it does not appear to be the case that a formed RNAS unit operated there.  So when Wiki and other sources mention an RNAS "detachment" that is technically correct.  A group of RNAS personnel were "detached" by RNAS and "attached" to Dunsterforce.  But just personnel: no vehicles.  I suspect it has been assumed by many that the word "detachment" meant a formed and equipped unit.

 

Dunsterforce apparently had only Austin and Ford vehicles.  So I find myself wondering if there ever actually were any Lanchesters in "Persia".  There were assorted armoured vehicles further South in Palestine, including some locally improvised types.  Perhaps they went there.  But 3 odd vehicles would be a support headache, and the armoured cars known to be in Palestine all seem to be RRs.

[Duckwizard]

I fear I mixed from two colours to match the drawings in the instructions. Unfortunaly I did not make a note which colours I used.

 

Think it was mucho sand yellow and some olive green. Now I guess it is too green, but well...

 

Most of my infos come from here, I am sure you know the site: http://www.landships.info/landships/car_articles.html#

 

Shaun, yes but not only.

Edited November 24, 2018 by Duckwizard

[the South African]

15 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

Some putty round the neck and a texture tool for a bit of veterinary surgery??

 

 

The body shape on the two birds is totally different cape vulture has a very long neck and a "thinner" body than the egyptian/bearded vulture

 

Regards:

Shaun

[Kingsman]

As you say, out of luck with the Vulture.  Nice idea, though.  What about a snake or a rodent?  Have a look at Mantis Miniatures.  They do a variety of animals in 1/35 including lizards, snakes and rodents. http://www.mantisminiatures.pl/EN/14,0,Animals.html

 

Perhaps the "missing 3" were unfit for some reason and/or had been cannibalised and were left behind, although the 3 in the photo don't look particularly derelict.  In which case they might have been put round the back and left to rot until Wormwood Scrubs was closed down, then possibly scrapped.  Or they were perhaps got working later and used for some home defence or training role.

 

The garage photo is of course out of context and incorrect assumptions may be made and incorrect conclusions drawn from it, as is often the case.  We don't know the date and we don't know the location for certain, nor do we know if other Lanchesters are present out of shot.  Whatever is lurking far right doesn't look like another Lanchester.  It is tempting to do as I've done and make the vehicles in the picture the "missing 3".  I feel that those need more investigation because if any did go to Persia it can only be those 3, the others all being accounted-for in Russia.

 

I suspect that the colour would probably have been the khaki green "service colour", which was a brownish shade of green anyway and about the same colour as you ended up with.  Being batch-mixed it varied.  I'm not sure that the use of browns in the Middle East has been proven.  Period photos of clean vehicles suggest a darker shade, usually covered in a layer of dust and/or mud giving a paler appearance.

[McNab]

Nice work 😊

[Tiger331]

On 8/4/2018 at 1:20 PM, Duckwizard said:

Thank you all a lot for your kind words. John is that RR still available?  Did not run over it so far.

Michael,

 

If I may interject, I don't think the Meng kit of the RR Armoured Car has been mentioned in this thread ?. If you are not familiar with this kit, it does appear to be superior to the earlier Roden kits and can be picked up for considerably less. I recently purchased one direct from China for less than £30 inc shipping, which kept it below the threshold for EU customs charges. The Meng kits offers both the WWI and Inter-War variants (in fact one of the decal options is for a vehicle in the Western Desert in 1941) with both the narrow, spoked, wheels and the wider Desert Wheels/Tyres. The kit includes P/E (including the wheel spokes) and should be easier to build than the Roden examples. There is a another recent thread on this forum that features a very nice example of the Meng RR Armoured Car. 

 

As for your own model - very nice. Only last weekend I picked up a copy of the CSM kit from a recently discovered shop in Riga so you have provided me with some nice inspiration to get started !.

 

Well Done, Sir !     

[Duckwizard]

Thank you very much for your kind words and the info re the Meng kit.

 

In fact I only recently heard about it and I am sure you are right, this seems to be the better kit and I will try to get hold of it after I finished my current build.

 

I hope you will have as much fun building the excellent CSM kit as I had.