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Enzo Matrix

2019 Groupbuild programme - now with dates!

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So where do we go from here?

Do we merge 2 GB's which have already got enough numbers (trainers and specialists seem the obvious ones to me, and yes I have signed up to them) or do we leave it to the usual bunfight in the vote?

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1 hour ago, Enzo Matrix said:

The Frog Squad arrangements are all done and dusted, so I haven't included that in the total.

Enzo,  I think it's 10 without FROG.

  1. D Day
  2. Trainers
  3. Specialists
  4. Year of Birth
  5. Front line Asia
  6. 50s NATO
  7. Film etc.
  8. Float planes II
  9. Shark mouths
  10. Lockheed

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Oh no! There are 7 there I am interested in. If it is anything like this year I will be lucky to get entries in half of those finished. :banghead:

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Cliff, you are quite right.  There are ten GBs which have crossed the threshold, not including the Frog Squad,

 

I have identified ten GB slots throughout the year, although this would be a squeeze.  Nine slots would be far more comfortable.

 

The Small Wars GB and Spanish Civil War GB proposals are putting up a good fight in getting and reconfirming people who are interested.  They could both get past the threshold.  If one or both of them do, then we will have the usual poll.  In this case there will be nine slots with eleven or twelve GBs competing for them. 

 

In the event that we only have ten qualifying GBs, then we will run with that without a poll.  I'll make a decision on Sunday 28 October. If we go for a poll, then it will run from 1 to 30 November. 

 

I would love to provide a slot for them all, but sadly it's just not feasible.

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This sounds like a very good plan to me.

 

Can I reiterate one other suggestion that was put forward by another member earlier, that the process for getting a GB started becomes the same as that for getting a STGB started ie the next one past the required numbers is automatically the next one onto the STGB calendar. I think this would be fair as it would stop some interesting GB proposals from constantly losing out to re-runs of previous ones, I would also ask that those which have the required numbers for this years poll (if it is needed) but lose out in the vote automatically get the first GB positions available for the next year.

What do you think?

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I'm taking your suggestions on board - and they are good ones.

 

One issue that we have found with STGBs is that they get proposed and gain a lot of support quickly.  They then get a date which is usually eighteen months away.  By the time the STGB comes around, people forget that they have shown an interest.  I can see a similar situation arising if we run GBs in the same manner.  Also, we have had so many supported STGB proposals that we could be looking three years ahead! 

 

However, once we have the November bunfight out of the way, I'll formally propose these changes to the BM Massive and we can have another bunfight to see which way we go. :) 

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On 13 octobre 2018 at 8:39 PM, Wez said:

The SCW as I have been remonstrated by Antoine, deserves a dedicated GB, so come on, those of you who signed up previously, sign up again - that means you @Antoine

 

And others - you know who you are :fight:

You mean.... Me?

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7 minutes ago, Antoine said:

You mean.... Me?

Uh-hu, yup, you.

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OK.

I agree with the STGB long run in being an issue so a cap needs to be set on how far ahead we look for all the GBs. One way would be for provisional slots to be allocated subject to them being reconfirmed a certain amount of time before the start date. If they fail to do this in a set period then the slot goes to the next STGB on the schedule. The SCW GB resurrection should give an idea as to how this would work. If the number of GBs starts to get too far ahead then the same system can be applied. 

 

The issue of re-runs is a little more straightforward I think. Once Lord Enzo has worked out a schedule he's happy with then we already have KUTA, Blitzbuild and a 'Classic/Obsolete' slot booked. Why not allocate however many slots to re-runs with the rest going to original ideas That'll kick the can so far down the road most of us will never reach it. Decision as to whether a new proposal is sufficiently different from a re-run would be down to Lord Enzo by whatever means he believes best.

 

Before my first big meltdown I worked in a company that applied the reconfirmation idea to product improvements and, separately to new lines. Once on the provisional list the originating team were allocated a budget to firm up the proposal but no more. If they failed to do this in two months the idea was dropped (and a black mark applied to names no doubt). If they did this then the project would be reconfirmed quarterly until it got the green light. The decision makers thus stopped a multitude of proposals being worked on at great cost and meant the people at the coalface weren't overwhelmed with work that would never go anywhere. Many of the projects in the pipeline were withdrawn by the proposers as a better solution became available or it was no longer relevant, the replacement then joined the queue again. Needless to say this wasn't a British owned company....    

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I must admit  since I joined the forum a few months ago I have enjoyed the group build thing

The only downside as a few people have mentioned is the timescale for some of the builds.

I build for pleasure and as a hobby to relax and if I see a GB or STGB that I am interested in and have a suitable kit I will add my name and show interest, however all the kits I have I intend on building and it may come to a point where I decide I want to build something that was potentially earmarked for a GB in the future that could be 2 years down the line, so when the GB arrives the kit I had in mind has already been built and it means I have to get another kit or drop out of the build as some kits like the Buccaneer aren't that readily available.

I think that as has been said, allocation of so many slots for new and so many for re runs then first past the post gets first available slot may be better and would keep people more focussed as the builds wouldn't be in the distant future as some are at present

I know it's a hard task to juggle all this stuff around and I'm glad @Enzo Matrix is at the helm

 

 

 

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I must admit I find it difficult to get my head around GB's that are planned almost 12/18 months in advance ?

 

Surely thats just to far in advance of a start date ?

I thought somewhere along the line I had registered a vote for a 'vehicle Gb (Cars Lorries & bikes) but that must be for 2020 ????

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Why don't we chat about this for a year, to keep us warm, and in early to mid October 2019 see where we stand. Let's look how many group builds have gathered how much support, and then decide how to enter a new decade. Poll or no poll and slots by enough signed members? For 2019 we can now try another method; allocating the slots to those GB:s now eligible for the vote. Enzo has worked hard and come up with clever ideas to combine several proposals. Yet some people feel the need to blow this fragile card house down just to... well, just to get their very own will through. Why not wait another year? Let's try things this way for GB year 2019. One thing that is most irritating in the Vote procedure is the people not even planning to participate in group builds get the power to decide what this herd of cats actually gets to build. Viewers, not builders choice? Ugh, I've spoken!

V-P

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28 minutes ago, Mancunian airman said:

I thought somewhere along the line I had registered a vote for a 'vehicle Gb (Cars Lorries & bikes) but that must be for 2020 ????

I'd forgotten about that one, I'm in that one as well I think 🤔

Like you say, it all gets very confusing as to whether you've committed to a confirmed GB or STGB or just a pipe dream one that may or may not even happen

I for one will be happy to continue along with what ever format the GB programme goes with, I would just like it a little clearer for my aging grey cells to comprehend 😂

I'd never realised as well until @vppelt68 mentioned that everyone in the forum gets to choose what GBs go forward whether they intend to participate in one or not, maybe the only way around that would to be that to be eligible to vote you have to be on one of the lists up for proposal, but I don't know if that's practical or even possible

 

 

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42 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Enzo has worked hard and come up with clever ideas to combine several proposals. Yet some people feel the need to blow this fragile card house down just to... well, just to get their very own will through.

Couldn't agree more.

I thought Enzo's idea of combining a couple of GB's together to get them through and then be able to start next years decision with almost a clean slate was a very good idea and would have made everybody happy. I have a GB proposed myself and would be more than happy to have a shared slot if it meant that the GB got through.

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1 hour ago, vppelt68 said:

Why don't we chat about this for a year, to keep us warm, and in early to mid October 2019 see where we stand. Let's look how many group builds have gathered how much support, and then decide how to enter a new decade. Poll or no poll and slots by enough signed members? For 2019 we can now try another method; allocating the slots to those GB:s now eligible for the vote. Enzo has worked hard and come up with clever ideas to combine several proposals. Yet some people feel the need to blow this fragile card house down just to... well, just to get their very own will through. Why not wait another year? Let's try things this way for GB year 2019. One thing that is most irritating in the Vote procedure is the people not even planning to participate in group builds get the power to decide what this herd of cats actually gets to build. Viewers, not builders choice? Ugh, I've spoken!

V-P

On the Airfix forum one has to sign up for the GB which then makes you eligible to vote . . . . no outsiders 

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Maybe, but let's not make a hobby forum too complicated, rest of the cold cruel world outside is that already :wink:. V-P

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I agree with VP.  The forum software doesn't allow that sort of control over the polls.

 

However, I believe that it is not too much of an issue.  What I am about to say is an opinion, based on anecdotal evidence.  I have no hard data to back up my assertions.

 

There is a hard core (corps even...) of GB enthusiasts.  These people enter GB after GB after GB.  However, this hard core seems to be a very small percentage of the total number of members who post reguarly  on BM.  In turn, that number is also a minor percentage of the total number of BM members.

 

Given the number of people who vote in annual polls, I don't believe that there is a large proportion of people voting with no intention of taking part.

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I know this might sound a daft question, most of mine usually are, but I wonder if it would help with some of our aging grey cells 😉

 

With some of the STGBs so far in the future, would it be possible say a couple of months before they start to get the host of that particular GB to send out a message or mail to those who expressed an interest on the list as a reminder as some could be 2 years down the line and people may have forgotten they said they were up for it :) 

 

Ian :) 

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Something similar is already in place. 

 

Anyone who is interested in groupbuilds should subscribe to the thread linked below, then they will always get three month's notice of the start of a groupbuild.

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Redstaff said:

would it be possible say a couple of months before they start to get the host of that particular GB to send out a message or mail to those who expressed an interest on the list as a reminder

Theoretically i would think they are supposed to ? I plan on doing this for my Patton STGB coming up in March? Im planning on sending a friendly reminder @ 90 days which is the 1st of the year roughly. I may actually do a 2nd reminder @ one month as well. As Enzo just posted the advance notification thread i think that is also a good way to get a reminder. 

 

Dennis

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That's probably why they creep up on me unannounced then 😂

I'll go and subscribe to the link

 

Many thanks

 

Ian :) 

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2 hours ago, Redstaff said:

I know this might sound a daft question, most of mine usually are, but I wonder if it would help with some of our aging grey cells 😉

 

With some of the STGBs so far in the future, would it be possible say a couple of months before they start to get the host of that particular GB to send out a message or mail to those who expressed an interest on the list as a reminder as some could be 2 years down the line and people may have forgotten they said they were up for it :) 

 

Ian :) 

Well I just tried... I copied the list of 38 members I had in the opening thread of the B-17 STGB, to a new post. Just adding the @ to the beginning of each didn't wake up the address, but I had to re-write the whole username to do it. By the 17th (appropriately for the theme) I got fed up enough to delete everything and cancel the post. Just do like Enzo suggested and follow the GB notifications, you good people. It's a good way to remind also the would be hosts of their coming tasks - I had absolutely, completely forgotten the takeover of the Pz IV STGB from Smuts with PlaStix!!! V-P

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On 10/15/2018 at 9:04 PM, Enzo Matrix said:

I agree with VP.  The forum software doesn't allow that sort of control over the polls.

 

However, I believe that it is not too much of an issue.  What I am about to say is an opinion, based on anecdotal evidence.  I have no hard data to back up my assertions.

 

There is a hard core (corps even...) of GB enthusiasts.  These people enter GB after GB after GB.  However, this hard core seems to be a very small percentage of the total number of members who post reguarly  on BM.  In turn, that number is also a minor percentage of the total number of BM members.

 

Given the number of people who vote in annual polls, I don't believe that there is a large proportion of people voting with no intention of taking part.

 

May I add that within the hard core group of GB enthusiasts there is then a group that takes part in most GB without finishing anything in time ? Yes Your Honour, I am guilty ! 😁

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Sadly, so am I.  Which is a dreadful thing for the Group Build Moderator to say...  :fraidnot: 

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Part of the issue for me comes on a number of levels. I see GB proposals or even make them myself not knowing if they will ever reach the quota to be voted for, if they will ever pass that vote, then where they will land in the calendar along with other GBs I've signed up for. My modelling time is limited and I work slowly on a quality (alright that's a relative measure but you know what I mean :lol: ) over quantity style because that's what I enjoy so can't churn out several models at a time every month. Or, indeed, year in most cases :rolleyes: As a result I only ever get around to actually participating in one GB at a time and if it's one I'm moderating then the choice is already made for me.

 

If the forum was to start restricting who can vote on GBs I fear the chosen criteria could push me out as both a participant and a moderator.

 

I've never put my name down for a GB I didn't have the greatest intentions of joining but there is a long list of GBs I've not been able to take part in due to clashes with other GBs and real life. I can also think of at least two three four unfinished projects gathering dust on the Shame Shelf that never seen the gallery of GBs I did participate in and at least one of them comes from a GB I proposed and moderated.

 

While I agree the system as it stands may not seem perfect to everyone I cannot see why it can be 'improved' without it becoming restrictive and exclusive. Part of the appeal here must be the easy-going nature of the GBs where any of us can join in and enjoy the spirit of support, encouragement, and camaraderie the events always have. It is always easier to criticise than create but the fact the GB calendar is a victim of its own popularity must show we are doing something right.

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