phil1 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 1/144 Airbus a340-600 conversion As the airbus a340-600 is not available as a kit I've always fancied converting Revells a340-300 or even the a330 kit. The a340 kit is very rare and I've lucky enough to get my hands on one. I'm aware you can get a conversion kit from braz but I have noted that it is very, very expensive - too expensive for me!! Before I commit myself to such a project I basically want to know if it is possible to build this aircraft with using the braz conversion kit. Now its obvious that you need 2 kits to make up for the stretch. I happen to have an airfix a300 kit which I wondered would this be suitable? First things I have noticed are 1. The airfix a300 fuselage looks slightly smaller than Revells a340 fuselage (think the braz plug is smaller too) 2. the a300 is obviously quite short and might not have the suitable fuselage sections to extend the a340-300 to a 600?? 3. Not exactly important but the airfix fuselage feels a lot more sturdy than the revell one 4. The fuselage underside 'hump', is this part extended on the a340-600? otherwise I will probably need a a330 kit Another major issue is the engines. the a340-600 has RR Trent 500s i believe?? which are not available to be bought seperate, only braz do them in their conversion kit. I did a bit research and somebody recommended that the A330 GE engines are very similar. I have 2 already that I didn't use from a previous project and I can't help thinking that they look too small. from my stash i have a330 ge engines, A310 PWs (i think) and a330 PWs. none look suitable enough. a quick slight mock up of the wing - apologies if the engines are in the wrong place!.... this is just to give an idea. from reference photos I'm sure the rear of the cowling travels back further so less of the exhaust nozzle/cone is visible? The other issue is the wing, I believe its slightly larger? is this a slight wing extension or is it by area? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bzn20 Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 I think the wing area increase is down the span increase . Might be a good idea to delve in to a really good A340 book A340-200/300 wing area / span 363.1 m2 (3,908 sq ft), 29.7° sweep and 60.3 m / 197.83 ft wing span A340-500/600 wing area / span 437.3 m2 (4,707 sq ft), 31.1° sweep and 63.45 m / 208.17 ft wing span Sweep angle change might be a bit tricky ? Not sure how this was achieved as the wing box is the same as far as I can make out, must have been different lead edge false work. less than 2 degrees difference so probably not worth doing . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 The wing is significantly larger in area and span. Don’t forget the centre bogey has four wheels, too. The stabilisers are larger too I believe. I’ve built two of these conversions and have another in the stash... I may be willing to part with it if you’re interested - PM me if you want more info. Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbofan Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Hi Phil, I've just had a look at my A340-500 Bra.Z conversion and compared it to an unbuilt Revell A340-300 I have in the stash and I'd say it is doable but the biggest problem would be the engines and pylons. They are very different to any of the engines you have. Even the Bra.Z engines, which are very nice, aren't entirely accurate as the intakes lack the slight squareness the real ones have. The wingbox is about 8mm longer on the -5/600, the tailplanes again about 8mm wider, the wing chord is 7mm greater at the fuselage end reducing to 3.5mm at the tips, there is also a 15mm extension to the wingtips. Not forgetting the bulge at the root of the vertical stabilizer is that of the later model widebody Airbuses not the early ones as depicted by the kit. I have a feeling the nosewheel is slightly larger too so that will have to be sourced from somewhere. If you can, I think an A330 would be a better donor kit than the Airfix A300. But Tom's offer of his Bra.Z conversion is probably your best option unless you are in the market for one of these beauties! http://www.airlinercafe.com/forums.php?m=posts&p=70331#70331 Cheers, Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme H Posted July 25, 2018 Share Posted July 25, 2018 Don't want to put you off, but as Ian has pointed out, it's not an easy conversion by any means, the real problem is not the fuselage stretch, but the increased wing chord, which means you have to stretch the fuselage an equal amount through the Wing Body Fairing as well as the fore and aft stretches, so you really need another A340 kit, or use a lot of plasticard and filler, I doubt there is much from the A300 kit that would be suitable, The advantage of another A340 kit is that you could cut the wing from each kit differently to add in the additional chord, then only have one join to clean up. The big thing is none of this is cheap, the Braz conversion although it has it's own problems probably is the easier way to go I have a friend who started the conversion, and got most of the fuselage and wing done using just plasticard, I wouldn't recommend that, and then there are the engines, a whole other problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 On 7/25/2018 at 5:16 PM, bzn20 said: I think the wing area increase is down the span increase . Might be a good idea to delve in to a really good A340 book A340-200/300 wing area / span 363.1 m2 (3,908 sq ft), 29.7° sweep and 60.3 m / 197.83 ft wing span A340-500/600 wing area / span 437.3 m2 (4,707 sq ft), 31.1° sweep and 63.45 m / 208.17 ft wing span Sweep angle change might be a bit tricky ? Not sure how this was achieved as the wing box is the same as far as I can make out, must have been different lead edge false work. less than 2 degrees difference so probably not worth doing . On 7/25/2018 at 7:06 PM, tomprobert said: The wing is significantly larger in area and span. Don’t forget the centre bogey has four wheels, too. The stabilisers are larger too I believe. I’ve built two of these conversions and have another in the stash... I may be willing to part with it if you’re interested - PM me if you want more info. Tom On 7/25/2018 at 10:33 PM, Turbofan said: Hi Phil, I've just had a look at my A340-500 Bra.Z conversion and compared it to an unbuilt Revell A340-300 I have in the stash and I'd say it is doable but the biggest problem would be the engines and pylons. They are very different to any of the engines you have. Even the Bra.Z engines, which are very nice, aren't entirely accurate as the intakes lack the slight squareness the real ones have. The wingbox is about 8mm longer on the -5/600, the tailplanes again about 8mm wider, the wing chord is 7mm greater at the fuselage end reducing to 3.5mm at the tips, there is also a 15mm extension to the wingtips. Not forgetting the bulge at the root of the vertical stabilizer is that of the later model widebody Airbuses not the early ones as depicted by the kit. I have a feeling the nosewheel is slightly larger too so that will have to be sourced from somewhere. If you can, I think an A330 would be a better donor kit than the Airfix A300. But Tom's offer of his Bra.Z conversion is probably your best option unless you are in the market for one of these beauties! http://www.airlinercafe.com/forums.php?m=posts&p=70331#70331 Cheers, Ian On 7/25/2018 at 10:58 PM, Graeme H said: Don't want to put you off, but as Ian has pointed out, it's not an easy conversion by any means, the real problem is not the fuselage stretch, but the increased wing chord, which means you have to stretch the fuselage an equal amount through the Wing Body Fairing as well as the fore and aft stretches, so you really need another A340 kit, or use a lot of plasticard and filler, I doubt there is much from the A300 kit that would be suitable, The advantage of another A340 kit is that you could cut the wing from each kit differently to add in the additional chord, then only have one join to clean up. The big thing is none of this is cheap, the Braz conversion although it has it's own problems probably is the easier way to go I have a friend who started the conversion, and got most of the fuselage and wing done using just plasticard, I wouldn't recommend that, and then there are the engines, a whole other problem thanks for all your input guys, you've highlighted a whole range of aspects I hadn't considered. I reckon I could to a half decent job with two a340 kits however finding 1 kit was hard enough! I think the way forward is either the Braz conversion that Tom has referenced or the AA release that Ian has made me aware of. I'd guess the AA kit could cost as much as 150 euros which although it looks amazing is probably out my price range! phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 great project! the A340-600 is actually my favorite aka good looking Airbus! Saw one years ago perform at ILA Berlin! Amazing! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 Tom very kindly sold me the Braz conversion kit for a knock down price. I've already started cutting up the a340 but this project is going to have some major problems ahead! the tail went on without any problems and i filled the gap where i chopped off the vertical stab off. Chopping off bits of fuselage gives me a chance to reinforce the joins from inside the fuselage itself. the tail end fits on beautifully and lines up with revell fuselage seamlessly HOWEVER... a difference in fuselage diameter is noticeable on inspection (as expected). I believe the Braz diameter is more accurate. Problem no 1. The other end of the extension is TOO big to fit. Its not just the insert area, the whole extension piece widens from the wing root forward. Its not a major problem as it can be sanded down once the entire fuselage is whole. It probably needs to lose 3-4mm. However problem no 2 complicates this Problem no 2 (sorry tom! we'll blame braz!) the part forward of the wing root is bent, if you notice the straight line of the paper you'll see that both sides bend down toward the belly of the plane. I thought I'd corrected this significantly with boiling water but I suspect its gradually went back the way it was. I am considering sawing off this part and straightening everything out with some 30mm (diameter) pipe, I've ordered some for a fiver so I'm praying it fits snuggly into the braz extension. I found some larger pipe for a couple of quid but although it fits the revell perfectly, its too big for the braz extension. looks like its going to get messy! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romeo Alpha Yankee Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 great to see this one started Phil. As I recall when Tom built his A340, he actually sanded down the Revell parts to reduce their diameter to fit the Braz bits. I think it was figured there was a little shrinkage in the parts after casting as well. Though it looks like you have other issues with your castings. I will have to check my set to see if I have similar warpage. I am building mine in Etihad markings, aircraft I flew on back in 2010, boy I need to get on with it I think! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme H Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Good to see you take up the Braz challenge, although it is pretty universal that people have had most of the same problems as you, there is no easy way, but filler and sanding. filler and sanding. filler and sanding. filler and sanding etc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 8/30/2018 at 11:31 PM, Romeo Alpha Yankee said: great to see this one started Phil. As I recall when Tom built his A340, he actually sanded down the Revell parts to reduce their diameter to fit the Braz bits. I think it was figured there was a little shrinkage in the parts after casting as well. Though it looks like you have other issues with your castings. I will have to check my set to see if I have similar warpage. I am building mine in Etihad markings, aircraft I flew on back in 2010, boy I need to get on with it I think! cheers ray it looks like thats the way to go. I'm a bit concerned that i'm going to oversand the revell area and its going to be wafer thin as there seems a huge contrast with the example i have. phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 On 8/31/2018 at 12:42 AM, Graeme H said: Good to see you take up the Braz challenge, although it is pretty universal that people have had most of the same problems as you, there is no easy way, but filler and sanding. filler and sanding. filler and sanding. filler and sanding etc yes mate i think this is going to get seriously messy. I wouldn't recommend this to a novice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 2, 2018 Author Share Posted September 2, 2018 the braz extension can't be bent back into shape, so I've decided to cut off the portion where the fuselage starts to warp. I've drawn in about 1cm from the wing root (I didn't want to slice through the wing root) this is how the alignment will look with a straight fuselage, it leaves a approx a 2mm-3mm gap at the bottom which will need filling now the fuselage is in 2 pieces, these need to together as accurately as possible but I will need something inside for both parts to slide onto. I've ordered some plastic tubing but i think i may have found a cheap solution! a tinfoil holder is surprisingly sturdy for the job, its too big but a split down the middle will help me roll it in for a snug fit! should line up nicely if you don't mind the gap.... give it a good sanding down prior to chucking on some filler you can see from this photo a noticeable difference in the diameter of the revell kit. the front is fine as the braz diameter was larger at that end. I can only sand down the revell part so far so i will have to build up the braz end with filler or milliput. I will leave this to harden for 24 hours and then use sandpaper in a circular motion to maintain the rounded fuselage 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 as expected the base does not fit very well, but before that I need to build up the interior so it can rest firmly in place. The rectangular section in the middle is where i want to fix the display stand trimmed the edges and finally got it to sit in place. The doors are about 3mm to wide so adjustments have been made to the centre section for them to nicely fix in place. again, the hollow area underneath the landing gear doors has been filled. The center section is all milliput with an imprint of the display stand when it was still wet. It was a nice idea but i did a bit extra work on where the display stands as it looked a bit crap. the milliput has a tendency to crumble so i used spare plastic to reinforce the edges and now theyll look nicely squared off after sanding bought i few items from hannants including the MICA 2 paint for the fuselage - unfortunately i hadn't spent enough for delivery so i chucked in a braz satcom antenna to save a bit graft (geordie for work). I've also created a few marks to add the VHF aerials later after most of the painting I managed to salvage some more antennas from the original a340 fuselage The tail was completely bent, so after many attempts heating it up with hair dryer i finally managed to straighten it up. I'm a bit nervous about attaching the tail so I've marked exactly where it needs to sit its only after adding the tail I've realized how long this plane actually is! typically....after adding the tail I've noticed on reference photos THIS!.... The bottom of the rudder has a chunk missing - presuming the tail is bigger than the a340-200/300, I'm guessing this is for clearance for the stab??? . My question is....as this seems standard on the a340-500/600 why does the braz tail not reflect this? interestingly a lot of airbus blueprints don't reflect this either, I wondering if this was an amendment to the rudder at a later date or the early versions didn't feature it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbofan Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 20 minutes ago, phil1 said: The bottom of the rudder has a chunk missing Good spot Phil, I've been working on my -500 recently and didn't notice this! Unfortunately I've already painted it so I'll see if it can be corrected without any damage! It's certainly coming along well, but I'd forgotten just how much work is involved, looks like you're getting there though. Cheers, Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 16, 2018 Author Share Posted September 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Turbofan said: Good spot Phil, I've been working on my -500 recently and didn't notice this! Unfortunately I've already painted it so I'll see if it can be corrected without any damage! It's certainly coming along well, but I'd forgotten just how much work is involved, looks like you're getting there though. Cheers, Ian cheers ian I'm actually finding it a lot of fun, i don't know if you can remember my very early dc10 to md11 conversion but it feels a similar type of job. It seems that everyone has missed this when I've looked through the forums and I only found out about it by chance. I've checked the early prototypes and they all have the piece out the rudder, must have been missed by braz. the tail is staying on mine now as it would be carnage to rip it off. I might see if i can do a neat job with it still attached but i might need some new tools to get the right angle. what colours are you doing your 500 again? phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbofan Posted September 16, 2018 Share Posted September 16, 2018 Yes I think I'll try to file it to shape as it's only a small notch. Just looked and the AA kit has the correct rudder. Mine is going to be Thai. It's almost finished, just detailing the engines then it'll be decal time, although I'll have to wait until AA release windows for the -5/600! Cheers, Ian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 a few coats of tamiya surface primer have filled in any nasty gaps and quite pleased with the finish. I didn't spray any detailed areas like the tail as your guaranteed to lose the surface detail with this stuff, it is however ideal if you are wanting to achieve a smooth finish especially over areas which normal paint will expose. The join areas are near to invisible now. I've put a few layers of gloss white over the tamiya surface primer after some smooth sanding. In a previous virgin dreamliner project i used a hint of grey in the fuselage colour, however i felt after looking at reference photos of the a340 in particular alongside a BA that there wasn't a huge difference in fuselage colour. I'm thinking the pearlescent mica will discolour the white slightly also once applied. the wings aren't the worst fit in the world the engines came in 2 parts as usual, the fit predictably was lousy, but a bit of circular sanding has put that right i need to decide what to use for the virgin red. This is going to be metallic red. On my 787 project i used tamiya TS18 out of a can which is perfect for the colour but as well as the model i ended up painting the entire room ideally i need something i can use out of a airbrush. For now i want to test clear red (humbrol 1321) on top of metal the result is more pink than red. I'm aware alclad do a metallic red and testors is an option 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Just picked up on this thread. Amazing and innovative major surgery going on here. I'm really impressed. You are making a seriously good job of this conversion! Will follow with relish. Terry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbofan Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, phil1 said: On my 787 project i used tamiya TS18 out of a can which is perfect for the colour but as well as the model i ended up painting the entire room Hi Phil, You could always decant the TS18 into your airbrush or just spray outside before it gets too cold. This is coming along nicely, you're rapidly catching up with me, but I have been working on mine for 3 years at least! I've just noticed that AA have released windows for their -600 kit, I've been holding off finishing my -500 until they were available so there's nothing to stop me finishing it now. You'll probably still beat me though! Looking forward to more. Cheers, Ian Edited September 23, 2018 by Turbofan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr B Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 All i can say it WOW 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 On 9/23/2018 at 12:22 PM, Terry1954 said: Just picked up on this thread. Amazing and innovative major surgery going on here. I'm really impressed. You are making a seriously good job of this conversion! Will follow with relish. Terry cheers terry, early days and still some major challenges ahead! phil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 On 9/23/2018 at 12:31 PM, Turbofan said: Hi Phil, You could always decant the TS18 into your airbrush or just spray outside before it gets too cold. This is coming along nicely, you're rapidly catching up with me, but I have been working on mine for 3 years at least! I've just noticed that AA have released windows for their -600 kit, I've been holding off finishing my -500 until they were available so there's nothing to stop me finishing it now. You'll probably still beat me though! Looking forward to more. Cheers, Ian ian your a genius, I've managed to decant it and its flowing through the airbrush no problem, thanks again for the tip! I'll have a look at your 500 tonight if i can find the thread that's great timing about the AA windows, I think I'll get mine ordered tonight in the hope that when they come I will be near decal stage Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil1 Posted September 26, 2018 Author Share Posted September 26, 2018 its time to get cracking with the wings. the wings are very good quality and are nice and straight with no warped edges. the gear doors are obviously designed to be open and don't fit in exactly, the gap just needs to be filled. From reference photos I think there's part of the door that overlaps the main part when down (where the 2 filled in dots are) but lies flat when retracted this is typical me......lose one of the winglets so end up using a plastic one from the original a340 kit rather then the resin. now i've used the plastic one, typically, the original resin one is bound to turn up all parts including wings, engines, and stabs (including some a350 stabs for another project) have been undercoated and received a few coats of revell 371 which is perfect for airliner wings. Really pleased with the engines as there is no noticeable join and the shape of the engine hasn't been lost on any, should look great when I get some red metal on them. The horizontal stabilizers are a little bit disappointing as there's no detail on them, I'm now wondering if there's much difference between them and the original a340-200/300 ones time to decant the TS18, hopefully no mess TS18 is a perfect colour for virgin metallic red. There are plenty of variations of the colour on the virgin fleet, some ranging from light red metallic to a deep almost purple metallic finish, this is somewhere in-between. luckily its went smoothly through my airbrush the first couple of coats of this stuff always look rubbish but the end result is always good. I'm expecting plenty of over-spray as this stuff gets everywhere 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbofan Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, phil1 said: I'll have a look at your 500 tonight if i can find the thread Sorry Phil I've not done a wip for my -500, in fact I've only ever done one and that was for a Group Build a couple of years ago! It shouldn't be too long before it's finished though I'm just waiting for windows too. How did you manage to lose a winglet, I thought they were cast with the wings?! I think the tailplanes are slightly longer on the -5/600s compared to the -2/300s. (Just had a thought, I wonder why there wasn't a -400) It's coming on nicely though, good to see some colour, won't be long before it's finished. Cheers, Ian Edited September 26, 2018 by Turbofan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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