Listening to the Solstice

[Martian]

On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 15:01, TheBaron said:

Whad'ya mean 'begin'?

I've just had three pages of the stuff!

True but at least we now know what we are heckling about!

 

Martian 👽

[CedB]

Lovely flappery Tony  

I don't have any fancy PE tools as such, but I have found that the Xuron PE cutters make getting stuff off the runners a lot easier... they're very sharp and, if you line up the blade with the edge of the part you can (mostly) get away without having to file bits off afterwards. Sort of explained here.

[TheBaron]

On 9/9/2018 at 3:07 PM, perdu said:

S'nuff for now...

Fank Gawd fer that! 😁

Me poor minces wouldn't have been fit fer nought more...

On 9/9/2018 at 3:12 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said:

I do sometimes wonder what etch-makers envisage us using to:

 

A - See

B - Remove From Fret

C - Hold

D - Clean Up

E - Bend

I reckon they know exactly what they're doing Sarge.

I bet they have a right old giggle about it down at the Etcher's Arms over a pint of Modeller's Revenge....

On 9/9/2018 at 3:25 PM, limeypilot said:

There's a very tempting Bishop to actress line in that last post but I'll leave it alone......

Uncharacteristic retraint for one of my threads Ian!

On 9/9/2018 at 3:25 PM, limeypilot said:

It seems the only limit to the amount of detail we can add is what we can pick up without breaking/feeding to the carpet monster!

Quantum modelling perhaps?🔮

Well, I s'pse were nearly there pushing molecules around with 3D printing....

On 9/9/2018 at 3:25 PM, limeypilot said:

 As to my repairs, most made it ok, or with nothing more than a couple of rigging lines popped. 4 or 5 need tail pieces/undercarriage replacing, the Pfalz E.IV needs the wings reattaching, so I'll take the opportunity to upgrade it, and the MS Type N has a wing loose but not detached.

 The Short 184 may be salvageable, but somehow the floats got twisted out of line. Not sure how as it was inside a plastic box, inside a display case! The display case is cracked, but no damage to the plastic box. Methinks someone took it out and dropped it, as the hinge from other display case was inside this one! The SPAD XIII is history, top wing ripped off. I'm looking for an Eduard profipack to replace it.

Glad there is some salvage but sorry to hear of the losses...

On 9/9/2018 at 11:05 PM, The Spadgent said:

Stonking bit o’ flappage there Tony. Nice work sir.

 

Cheers Johnny! Hard to go wrong with materials as good as the Flightpath stuff....

On 9/9/2018 at 3:42 PM, hendie said:

already did!

A wise lash of the gelt. You won't regret it.

On 9/9/2018 at 3:42 PM, hendie said:

We shall expect nothing less for the remainder of the build

 

On 9/9/2018 at 3:52 PM, keefr22 said:

I second what the learned member said....

 

On 9/9/2018 at 10:08 PM, Martian Hale said:

A fine start but we shall expect even more as you get up to speed!

On 9/9/2018 at 11:28 PM, CJP said:

And I thought FM kits were challenging until I saw your work on this build - those etched flaps are awesome - how many bits of etch ended up in the carpet?

One!

The very first bit I cut off too!!

Thanks goodness Mrs. B has the sight of an eagle or it's be part of the carpet still....

On 9/10/2018 at 6:30 AM, giemme said:

Superb flappery, monsiuer Le Baron

Grazie Giorgio! 

22 hours ago, bbudde said:

Hello Tony, Very nice looking flaps. Ah, Freiherr Tony vom westlichen Mittagskreis started work on his next gig. A promising start from what I see. (Will read the posts before tomorrow as I'm just back here again.) Cheers

Danke Benedikt! 😁

22 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

True but now we know what we are heckling about!

I'm beginning to believe that ignorance is bliss....

14 hours ago, CedB said:

Lovely flappery Tony  

I don't have any fancy PE tools as such, but I have found that the Xuron PE cutters make getting stuff off the runners a lot easier... they're very sharp and, if you line up the blade with the edge of the part you can (mostly) get away without having to file bits off afterwards. Sort of explained here.

Much obliged for that Sir Cedney!

Those Xuron cutter indeed look the Apoidea's patella, but this etch is just so damn good that I'm getting excellent results with just a fresh scalpel blade cutting onto an old tile, with nary a file needed.

 

 

 

 

 

[TheBaron]

Speaking of etch cutting, I got some more work done and both the flap trays finished this evening:

In my giddiness at the weekend I neglected to notice that there was a rivetted panel to go on the underside of the flaps themselves, which have now been GG'ed into place also:

A quick look at a flap/tray arrangement then, just to give the general idea:

This is upside-down of course with the flap on top and tray on the bottom.

Tony

 

 

 

[Martian]

That's nice!

 

Martian 👽

[hendie]

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

This is upside-down of course with the flap on top and tray on the bottom. 

 

wot?  Are they stuck on the ceiling?

 

My Flightpath PE arrived yesterday and I have to concur that it looks like a remarkable piece of etching.  Now I just need the kit to go along with it... apparently on the slow boat from New York (arrived from Japan within 48 hours and then stuck at customs NY for the last week and a half.

 

 

2 hours ago, TheBaron said:

I bet they have a right old giggle about it down at the Etcher's Arms over a pint of Modeller's Revenge....

 

ah... if only Mr Pratchett was still with us - that'd be ripe for a non-chapter in Moist's latest adventure... a chance in a million encounter...

 

 

 

[perdu]

If only...

 

 

 

The flappery does look double entendreably sexy Tony

 

Rather you than I sirrah

[TheBaron]

51 minutes ago, Martian Hale said:

That's nice!

Thanks Martian.

40 minutes ago, hendie said:

 My Flightpath PE arrived yesterday

What one did you get?

Have you told us?

Did he tell us?

What did he get?

And what's the kit?

40 minutes ago, hendie said:

 ah... if only Mr Pratchett was still with us

Strange to relate I never felt anything but antipathy to his work. Yet a lovely man with undoubted talents that he was. Ain't we odd creatures....

5 minutes ago, perdu said:

Rather you than I sirrah

Now, a Flightpath Sea Vixen set! If only!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bbudde]

7 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

Mr Pratchett

Who is he?

[hendie]

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

Strange to relate I never felt anything but antipathy to his work.

 

I guess he was a bit like marmite.   He was the only author I've ever read who could make me laugh out loud and actually bring tears to my eyes. 

 

I had to give up reading his books in public

 

 

 

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

What one did you get?

Have you told us?

Did he tell us?

What did he get?

And what's the kit?

 

Two

No

No

Two - I just told you

well....

 

 

One supposedly builds into a very nice model and the other by the same manufacturer is reckoned to be almost un-buildable.

Continuing with my theme of 28 Sqn,  I recently purchased the Classic Airframes Venom & Vampire kits from a nice man in Japan.  The PE is for the Vampire kit - there doesn't appear to be anything out there for the Venom kit so I may have to do some home brewing.  At my current build rate I should get to them sometime in 2025 (if I rush)

[perdu]

53 minutes ago, hendie said:

At my current build rate I should get to them sometime in 2025 (if I rush)

OK

I'll wait

 

😂

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

Ooh goody.  The Venom & Sea Venom always seem to me to be appallingly under-represented (especially in quarter scale).  See also the Scimitar (itch)

[NAVY870]

9 minutes ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

The Venom & Sea Venom always seem to me to be appallingly under-represented (especially in quarter scale). 

Amen Brother.

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by NAVY870

[Spookytooth]

Well if the flaps are just the start of it, I wonder what the rest of this build is going to be like.

Great start Tony.

 

As a side, back when I built my Annie, the main criteria was how many moving bits there were LOL

And I tried to get them to work too.

 

Simon.

[TheBaron]

 

On 9/11/2018 at 9:37 PM, bbudde said:

Who is he?

A much-beloved writer of the 'Discworld' series (amongst other things) Benedikt.

On 9/11/2018 at 11:09 PM, hendie said:

He was the only author I've ever read who could make me laugh out loud and actually bring tears to my eyes. 

I can understand that hendie. I was the same with Myles na Gopaleen/Flann O'Brien when I discovered him in late teenage years.

And of course, the incomparable 'Plum' himself, Mr. Wodehouse....

On 9/11/2018 at 11:09 PM, hendie said:

The PE is for the Vampire kit

I've their 1/72 version of same. Still wondering how so many bits will go into such a small airframe!

On 9/12/2018 at 9:46 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

The Venom & Sea Venom always seem to me to be appallingly under-represented

Surely as pessimist's view regarding the rarity value of such fine wines....

On 9/12/2018 at 9:46 AM, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

See also the Scimitar

Agreed. That absence bugs me too...

On 9/13/2018 at 4:21 PM, Spookytooth said:

Well if the flaps are just the start of it, I wonder what the rest of this build is going to be like.

Based on this morning's researches regarding the flaps Simon; it is looking to be rather problematic at present....

 

Good morning all.

A very busy week as my silence will attest: a pattern likely to remain fixed for several weeks yet but I shall try to sneak in as many interludes at the bench as I can - no matter how brief. I've been excited about doing this aricraft for a while now so it's certainly not going to languish from lack of attention.

 

In fact it's had a lot of attention research-wise over the week as I've been fixing the mental shape of the wing in my head prior to beginning corrections - a process which has rather run me up against the proverbial brick edifice.

 

Where to begin?

 

Well, I'd discussed previously the fact that the shape of the wing-root on the Airfix kit is erroneous for what I'm building. On the kit it is presented as a more of an arc than the predominantly diagonal shape of the aircraft:

You can see this disparity as well in the stunning set of Anson photos that @galgos has posted over on Howard's 1/48 thread here:

The photographs are amongst some of the best period references I've seen and the third one down of an Annie banking away to reveal the lower profile is just what I needed. (Thanks galgos - hope you don't mind me referencing your materials here also?)

 

Correcting that sweep back from flap to fuselage will be straightforward but demanding.

 

There is a problem with the flap length of the kit however, and by extension, this now renders the PE flaps I spent last week building a problem now as well.

 

It is my fault that I didn't notice it before when discussing the fact that the ailerons were too long. Mentally I must just have assigned some purely ficitious intervening section of wing separating them from the flap.

 

The corollary to this fact is that the flaps on neither kit or etch are long enough! They only run from the fuselage out to just past rib 8:

The pencil line shows where they should reach out to however, at rib 10a!

I've confirmed this not just against the mainplane drawing in the maintenance manual above, but also the written technical description of the flap layout in section 7 of the manual (which explicitly names 10a as the terminal rib for the flaps to reach out as far as), and finally photographs.

 

The longer aileron which Airfix have modelled is described in the maintenance manual as only being a feature on the earlier wing-type up as far asK and (possibly)  L Ansons. As this is going to be built as N9945 it uses the wing illustrated in the drawing above. I've no idea why Airfix did this (possible confusion over wing types in relation to production batches?) as the box art and decals are for a similarly later Mk.1 (N9742) and should have the shorter aileron / longer flap than that presented by the kit. I'm still loving the kit to bits of course but this means that I can't use the PE flaps as they are if this is to retain a level of accuracy in the build of that I can live with. 

 

I'm neither expert nor arrogant enough to pretend to infallibility on this question, but the photographic, historic, and technical data that I have currently access to all seem to point to the same conclusion. I had hoped to be doing some building this morning but as a consequence I want to 'pause for reflection' as the saying goes before deciding upon a plan of action to build new flaps.

 

A quick skim of Ray Sturtivant's excellent The Anson File just as additional info: N9945 was a Mk.1 built at Newton Heath as part of contract no. 766119, 350 of which aircraft were constructed between September 1939 and March 1940. N9945 was delivered in the seventh batch of this series, going straight from the factory to WIDU/BATDU at Boscombe Down, before later disposition to Wyton for the beam location missions and finally crashing in Birmingham in November of 1940 after striking a balloon cable.

 

Not downhearted as I've yet to build anything that turned out straighforward.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hendie]

27 minutes ago, TheBaron said:

but this means that I can't use the PE flaps as they are if this is to retain a level of accuracy in the build of that I can live with. 

 

You could have some custom made from that place in Argyll - I've heard good things about them. Though to make it worthwhile you should probably work your way through the rest of the kit first and see what else you would replace/create with PE and get that all done at once.

 

Home brewing PE is relatively easy (once you get the hand of it) but it can be difficult to get really fine detail with home equipment

[TheBaron]

1 hour ago, hendie said:

 that place in Argyll - I've heard good things about them.

Thanks hendie. I wasn't ware of those guys and their stuff looks magnificent doesn't it?

Their minimum pricing unfortuantely puts it out of my reach however for just a single set of components for the aircraft.

 

Both yourself and Steve have made homebrewing PE to look a most satisfying undertaking but with everything else on my plate at the moment I'm not kidding myself that I've time to dip into that at present. I did try a toelerance run on  the Silhouette cutter using some 0.5mm to get an idea of whatthat might be able to produce parts-wise:

Absolutely fine for the larger shapes but on a heavier cut setting - the piece can just be popped out of the sheet afterwards. The smaller bits just need a little attention with the scalpel to free them at the corners.

However.

That brings me back full-circle to the softness of plastic that I really don't like on such small components, so I have an alternative:

 

1. Soak the etch flaps and trays in water to dissolve all the GG (Another plus for not having used CA). Result: Correct number of salvaged small components that can be re-used.

2. Cut the large panels for the flaps and trays out of brass sheet to the correct length by hand. These are effectively just large polygons with folded edges on three sides so not overly-complex I would imagine.

3. Then simply stick the smaller parts back on to these as per the original attempt. It'll lack some of the finer surface textures of the Flightpath parts of course but tbh you're so spoiled with detail on those structure-wise that I don't think it'll mar the final presentation unduly.

 

I reckon that might work whilst retaining as much as possible of the Flightpath gorgeousness in the process. At the end of the day it is only the length of the flaps and trays which is wrong (and any longitudinal strips running along them). The number of overall parts will still be the same.

 

[Spookytooth]

Sorry things started a bit wrong there Tony.

The idea of fabricating fresh flaps/trays is great.

You might be able to add some detail to both, a ponce wheel or rivet wheel/ scribing.

 

Looking forward to your solution.

 

Simon.

[Brandy]

What is the correct length and width of the flaps? I bought some pe flaps for a Hurricane build, then used a resin wing conversion and couldn't use them. If they're the right size you're welcome to them.

 

Ian

[TheBaron]

1 hour ago, limeypilot said:

What is the correct length and width of the flaps?

43mm long x 6.8mm wide Ian. Most kind of you to check.

[CedB]

Wow, home made flappy things? Sounds like another Baronial adventure is on the cards...

[bigbadbadge]

Looking forward to your home made solution Tony.  I am sure that you will overcome with ease fella. 

Keep up the good work 

All the best 

Chris 

 

[Brandy]

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

43mm long x 6.8mm wide Ian. Most kind of you to check.

I just dug them out and the longest part is only 27mm. Sorry, but it was worth a shot!

 

Ian

[keefr22]

Don't wish to be the proverbial wet blanket Tony, but did Ansons regularly park with flaps down? I've only had a quick 5 minute look at google images & can't find any? So unless you're doing another 'in action' build maybe you could save yourself some work... 

 

Keith

[bigbadbadge]

Tony just had a thought.  I have some Eduard 48th scale flaps and as I will never use them for fear of being fined in the mess, you are more than welcome to them.  They are around 43 mm long and are 6.5 mm wide at one end and 7 mm at the other you can have the whole sheet. 

PM me if interested and I will happily send them. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by bigbadbadge
Predictive text error