bigbadbadge Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Wow Tony What amazing work. The framework and Cowling looks absolutely fantastic. It won't be long before you are building complete models from sheet Brass and rod. Very clever stuff fella. Keep up the good work All the best Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 20 hours ago, perdu said: Looks good Tony, if you intend 'tin-bashing' that curve again it might be an idea to keep the brass annealed so it can get used to the idea of being curved When you hit, manipulate, modify brass and copper it 'work hardens' and becomes less tractable so it is a good idea to resoften as you go along Bill - thanks! That's a top tip and I've been taking advantage of that earlier. 20 hours ago, giemme said: 19 hours ago, hendie said: masterful work. 19 hours ago, bbudde said: Ehhh Giorgio, hendie & Benedikt: you are most kind, but I'm conscious that this needs to be much better than current results. I'm going to scrap the current nacelles and use them as templates to produce sharper-looking versions. I'll explain why in a bit. Not a setback so much as feeling my way with metalworking here and learning all the time.... 19 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said: Of course, now you have to do another, just to prove that you can. Funny you should say that Pete.... 19 hours ago, keefr22 said: Carry on... 18 hours ago, Hamden said: Truly stunning metal working Too kind Roger. 18 hours ago, Spookytooth said: you were not a coppersmith in a previous life? Never having undergone regression-hypnosis I couldn't possibly say Simon. (Though I do get an odd sensation in my leg every time we drive past the prehistoric mines at Great Orme....) 17 hours ago, stevehnz said: I'm still trying to determine which end to start from though Split the difference Steve? 16 hours ago, Terry1954 said: Ah the Corfe-Swanage railway ..... I now live within earshot of said railway, Pick a green Terry, any one: That's the shades of envy I shot through reading that! 16 hours ago, massimo said: CAN'T WAIT FOR THE NEXT UPDATE!!! Wait no more Massimo! Well, a minute or two anyways! 😜 16 hours ago, corsaircorp said: now create the IBMS IBMS? Whassat CC? 13 hours ago, Andwil said: The original idea may have been bonkers but the execution is nothing short of brilliant. I wish people would stop using that 'bonkers' word. It makes me sound unhinged and would merely encourage Mrs. B's suspicions.... 6 hours ago, galgos said: even more so when I remind myself it's a piddling little 1/72 scale Anson instead of in a proper scale like 1/32! Well, I can forgive you that Max seeing as how you didn't thoroughly disgrace yourself and mention 1/48, which is - in being composed of such large pieces - largely intended for the visually-impaired and children under 11. 5 hours ago, The Spadgent said: Slow Sunday looking at bras in action. 5 hours ago, CedB said: Absolutely stunning Tony, nuff said Now. If I can just get my paint finish as smooth as yours Ced! 5 hours ago, bigbadbadge said: It won't be long before you are building complete models from sheet Brass and rod. Thanks Chris. I'm finding the allure of metal just too strong these days! 🤪 Yonks back in the late 80s I spent some time living in Instanbul and was amazed at the craftsmen's workshops down near the Egyptian Bazaar - literally streets with guys sitting outside tapping bits of metal and five minutes later would be an ornate jug or set of saucepans for sale. I asked one of them to make a necklace and ear-rings to take home to the future Mrs. B and watched in awe as he made them in front of you from the raw materials. Nothing I'm doing comes close to that level of ability and sensitivity.... Pondering the problem of a lack of dapping tools, I made a negative mould from Milliput of the intact nacelle from the port wing and let it harden overnight: Following Bill's sage advice I then re-annealed the front end of the nacelle until cherry red and pressed/rolled it around the the mould at an angle so that it would form a narrower circumference. A coarse technique it may be but it did at least enable me to finesse the inward curve of the nacelle as it travels inward to the mounting collar: It is getting there: - and with the firewall reduced the bearer-assembly now nestles inside: The current slightly battered condition of the nacelle-covers leaves me unsatisfied enough however that I'm going to treat them as mules for having worked out what combination of heat, bending and grinding is neccessary to form a reasonable representation of the original. Admittedly there are many photos of the engine panels and cowlings of various Ansons looking quite battered indeed from operational use and maintenance, however N9945 was a young airframe that went straight from the factory to BATDU and was only a few months in service at the point I'm modelling her, so I'm not content to leave things as they stand. Another related issue that had begun to gnaw at me was that Airfix don't seem to have accurately reproduced the opening where the undercarriage retracts into the nacelle - theirs is much wider than the reality at the specific point where the axle itself enters the airframe, which means that as I cut my brass version to match theirs it too is wrong now. Despite being a minor matter, it's enough to tip the scales in favour of making another - more accurate - attempt. That's it for this weekend though. Sun is out and I'm off for a wander in the icy breeze with Mrs. B. Speak to you soon. Tony 18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martian Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 The starboard nacelle is showing great potential. Martian 👽 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Thanks for showing us the details of your new instrument of torture er plaything er brass bending tool. That looks very handy indeed and not expensive either (at least by modern standards). First class demonstration and a very good first attempt. How to turn an antiquated and somewhat tired old kit into a wonderful piece of modelling.... Another step in the direction of a complete scratch build. P 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 37 minutes ago, Martian Hale said: The starboard nacelle is showing great potential. I agree, but when I first read that it reminded me of an old school report I once read ............ needless to say it wasn't mine.🤣 Incredible work here Tony. I think you should call this one, the shape of things to come! 53 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Terry 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 41 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Pondering the problem of a lack of dapping tools,... it's only a problem if you make it a problem... consider the acquisition of some dapping tools as therapeutic and of medicinal necessity. Or just don't tell SWMBO (always my first ploy) 45 minutes ago, TheBaron said: It is getting there: most indubitably 52 minutes ago, TheBaron said: Following Bill's sage advice conjures imagery of the master and the student... gallus as brass as we used to say many decades ago back in the homeland 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corsaircorp Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 50 minutes ago, TheBaron said: IBMS? Whassat CC? Well, I can forgive you that Max seeing as how you didn't thoroughly disgrace yourself and mention 1/48, which is - in being composed of such large pieces - largely intended for the visually-impaired and children under 11 Speak to you soon. Tony Tssss ! Easy peasy lemon squezzy !! International Brass Modellers Society ! Interesting that I type the 2 S, if not these society has been founded years ago And they also made a great and interesting use of Silicon.... Tsssss ! Tssss ! Visually impaired... Sure I'm Under 11 Well no comment.... 11 what ??? And you forget Large fingered peoples Sure I'm too Long live 1/48 !! Then, I use 1/72 but only for very large subjects Why not try to use silicon and taking a mould of your magnificent engine cowlings I know it's realy thin parts but may be worth a try ?? Great job Tony, as you wander in the windy green island, say Hello to the Banshees ! Sincerely. CC 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 2 hours ago, TheBaron said: Pick a green Terry, any one: That's the shades of envy I shot through reading that! And that was my thought too Tony, but there isn't really a green enough green there! When the kids were kids, we used to rent a holiday cottage within a hundred yards of the line and wandering down to watch the trains go by on a summers evening just couldn't be beaten! Wonder if Terry wants a lodger...? 2 hours ago, TheBaron said: Nothing I'm doing comes close to that level of ability and sensitivity.... But I bet they'd be rubbish sticking bits of plastic together...!! K 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry1954 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, keefr22 said: Wonder if Terry wants a lodger...? Er, not at the moment thanks! We do get rather a lot of family and friends keep wanting to visit though, so I guess we are in a great part of the country. The railway is a very interesting thing to live near, and of course we have Corfe Castle and the Tank Museum, just up the road, and the tank ranges themselves can get lively some days. Last Thursday must have been "let's loose off several thousand rounds of heavy automatic ammunition" day, judging by what we heard! When the main tank guns are in action, the earth can move for us. It's a real shame RNAS Portland is no longer active, but I can do the FAA museum in just under an hour, so not too bad. Enough additional green envy there for you guys? 😁 PS. There is a downside though ........... we get inundated by "grockles" in the summer, oh and Telford is a VERY long drive! Edited October 28, 2018 by Terry1954 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomoshenko Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Just caught up Tony and this is proper bostin sublime loike. On 10/26/2018 at 4:54 PM, TheBaron said: As is customary at this stage of one of my builds, there's increasingly less aircraft present than when we started out: I must say there is a pattern to your builds, I reckon I could give you an old tool Airfix kit, a box of wood and plastic shavings, an old radio and you could knock up an A300 Airbus... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keefr22 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Terry1954 said: Enough additional green envy there for you guys? You can go off people you know Terry...!! Really do love where you live and it was the only choice for UK holibobs until the kids grew up. My daughter and family live in Hampshire, so that's the only place the missus and I go now. She does live in earshot of the Watercress Line though, so it's not all bad...!! Keith 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Wow, just caught up with this, here’s me struggling to solder two bits of metal together and you’re soldering and making compound curves in brass 🤪 fantastic modelling 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevehnz Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 4 hours ago, Terry1954 said: Enough additional green envy there for you guys? Not just green envy, but hot green slimy envy of a particularly bilious shade. Living on the other side of the world only compounds it at times like this. 4 hours ago, keefr22 said: there isn't really a green enough green there! You're right, nothing bilious enough. Steve. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandy Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Lost for words here. Two attempts with which I'd be very happy, and still you want to do another! Having said that, I can understand the learning curve thing and just wanting to get it "that little bit better". Lovely stuff! Ian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Lovely! And I'm sure you can knock out some abstract earrings using the parts of the nacelle that have oversized retraction openings too. Then you've got Christmas covered too. Regards, Adrian PS Is there a reason why you aren't plunge/vac moulding thin plastic card for the nacelle sheeting? Besides making it more amusing for us, obvs.... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 10/28/2018 at 2:00 PM, Martian Hale said: The starboard nacelle is showing great potential. Thanks for that Martian. It's one of those things that you see in a photograph and you go: 'Oh, I'd like to build that.' and then set forth, regardless of the consequences.... On 10/28/2018 at 2:05 PM, pheonix said: That looks very handy indeed and not expensive either My favourite criteria Mr.P! I think for any sort of curved brass-work it has to be a 'must' in the inventory... On 10/28/2018 at 2:05 PM, pheonix said: Another step in the direction of a complete scratch build. I do feel some deep tide pulling me in that direction, and have a number of possible candidates to ponder. On 10/28/2018 at 2:41 PM, Terry1954 said: I agree, but when I first read that it reminded me of an old school report I once read ............ needless to say it wasn't mine.🤣 Rather ironically I failed CSE metalwork. In my defence we had an elderly teacher who could only communicate sthrough the medium of tutting and pointing. On 10/28/2018 at 2:47 PM, hendie said: it's only a problem if you make it a problem... consider the acquisition of some dapping tools as therapeutic and of medicinal necessity. I like your attitude young man! (You have to hear that in Brian Clough's voice...) Whilst this end of the month finds me cruelly deprived of funds I did make a primitive dapping tool earlier by beating the end of a 3oz. fishing weight into a dome at one end in order to be able to tap the annealed brass around it: Primitive, but tests on some scrap brass shows the results to be better than my previous attempts.... On 10/28/2018 at 2:47 PM, hendie said: conjures imagery of the master and the student... And such it is! On 10/28/2018 at 2:48 PM, corsaircorp said: Tssss ! Easy peasy lemon squezzy !! International Brass Modellers Society ! 🤦♂️ I can be so dense sometimes CC! Thanks for addding now to the 'list of things on the Internet providing endless distraction'..... On 10/28/2018 at 2:48 PM, corsaircorp said: Why not try to use silicon and taking a mould of your magnificent engine cowlings I know it's realy thin parts but may be worth a try ?? I'd considered casting as well as vacforming CC but tbh this is proving an ideal opportunity to improve my scant knowledge of working metal. On 10/28/2018 at 4:33 PM, keefr22 said: we used to rent a holiday cottage within a hundred yards of the line and wandering down to watch the trains go by on a summers evening I've seen the photos Keith! (That sounds positively idyllic btw...) On 10/28/2018 at 4:48 PM, Terry1954 said: Er, not at the moment thanks! You could make a fortune running an Airbnb from this thread by the looks of it Terry! On 10/28/2018 at 4:48 PM, Terry1954 said: the tank ranges themselves can get lively some days. We used to find the same thing staying at Lulworth Cove some summers - sipping wine on the terrace with the rumble of gunfire rolling up over the flanks of Bindon Hill. On 10/28/2018 at 5:14 PM, Tomoshenko said: Just caught up Tony and this is proper bostin sublime loike. Damn kind of you matey. On 10/28/2018 at 5:14 PM, Tomoshenko said: I must say there is a pattern to your builds, I reckon I could give you an old tool Airfix kit, a box of wood and plastic shavings, an old radio and you could knock up an A300 Airbus... If somebody was selling a stick in a box at Telford I would consider it a bargain. Err....how much do you want for that box of wood and shavings btw? 20 hours ago, woody37 said: Wow, just caught up with this, here’s me struggling to solder two bits of metal together and you’re soldering and making compound curves in brass 🤪 fantastic modelling Most kind Neil. Now if only I can learn to scribe as angelically as you! 😁 3 hours ago, limeypilot said: Lost for words here. Two attempts with which I'd be very happy, and still you want to do another! Having said that, I can understand the learning curve thing and just wanting to get it "that little bit better". Lovely stuff! It's that old familiar thing 'the obsession' Ian. Just having it look 'Ok' isn't always enough is it if you feel you can push things further. And boy, am I ever learning with every fresh piece of metal.... 2 hours ago, AdrianMF said: Lovely! And I'm sure you can knock out some abstract earrings using the parts of the nacelle that have oversized retraction openings too. Then you've got Christmas covered too. You're not wrong Adrian! I've recently become aware of all those lovely tools that jewellers have - along with dentists they seem to be some of the biggest tool-tarts of all.... 2 hours ago, AdrianMF said: Is there a reason why you aren't plunge/vac moulding thin plastic card for the nacelle sheeting? Your statement doesn't contain the word 'brass'. It must be brass. Brass I tell you! Scribed and cut some replacement panels earlier: Rather foolishly I annealed these before cutting out the undercarriage slots which meant they were a bendy nightmare at the thinnest parts. So after cutting-out some un-annealed replacement-replacements I had a fun hour getting an accurate slot made for the undercarriage, this time ignoring the over-size side-wings that Airfix had moulded and using the undercarriage itself as a template in order to obtain a correct opening shape for the axles this time around: The axle-openings still need to be a tad wider but I'll get round to that later in the week. 4 now. Tony 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamden Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Are you planning to replace the under carriage with brass items or are the kit ones accurate? Stunning brass work I really enjoy watching you reconstruct the airframe in brass Roger 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galgos Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Hamden said: Are you planning to replace the under carriage with brass items or are the kit ones accurate? Accurate? It looks horrendous! Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprueloose Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Interesting and lovely work Tony. Curious how you are going to represent the fasteners, rivets etc. Will deforming the brass change the shape? Or will you work on the painted layer? Inspiring to watch as always. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 23 hours ago, TheBaron said: this time ignoring the over-size side-wings that Airfix had moulded and using the undercarriage itself as a template in order to obtain a correct opening shape for the axles this time around: 23 hours ago, TheBaron said: The axle-openings still need to be a tad wider but I'll get round to that later in the week. remember the 'as cut' widths will become narrower as you add curvature - probably not noticeably but maybe just enough to have you get the metal removing system out again if you need rivets, modelmotorcars do 0.4 mm headed rivets over here 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 On 10/29/2018 at 6:45 PM, Hamden said: Are you planning to replace the under carriage with brass items or are the kit ones accurate? The forward shock-absorbers, definitely being replaced Roger. As Max says: 20 hours ago, galgos said: It looks horrendous! As to the 'agricultural' looking radius rod in its fairing that goes diagonally back from the axle, this requires some further deliberation. On 10/29/2018 at 6:45 PM, Hamden said: Stunning brass work I really enjoy watching you reconstruct the airframe in brass That's most kind. I must confess that in being most reluctant to start a build these days without an original maintenance or parts manual to consult - photographs are great of course but to fully understand the interaction of structural elements, I need to see the schematics. The extra 'sharpness' that metal gives to shape and form at this scale is becoming an increasingly important factor in what I do these days. Not something I would have anticipated a couple of years back!. 19 hours ago, Sprueloose said: Curious how you are going to represent the fasteners, rivets etc. I'm avoiding thinking about that Mr.P to be honest as - 2 hours ago, hendie said: if you need rivets, modelmotorcars do 0.4 mm headed rivets over here Bugger! Now I'm thinking about it... 19 hours ago, Sprueloose said: Will deforming the brass change the shape? Or will you work on the painted layer? In looking at shots such as this one from the IWM, which represents the kind of surface appearance I'm hoping to get towards, only one or two of the nacelle fasteners are really visible, and then only faintly: It's tempting to get carried away with the super-detailing to a point bordering on exaggeration at the scale, so I'm not rushing a decision on this at present. 2 hours ago, hendie said: remember the 'as cut' widths will become narrower as you add curvature - probably not noticeably but maybe just enough to have you get the metal removing system out again Gotcha. Wilco and Roger. Affirmative. Curvature. Got it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendie Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 21 hours ago, TheBaron said: Bugger! my job here is done. ... but I'll hang around just in case... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spadgent Posted November 2, 2018 Share Posted November 2, 2018 Ooooh lovely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBaron Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share Posted November 3, 2018 On 10/31/2018 at 4:47 PM, hendie said: my job here is done. Knowing you, you're already cooking up further Sisyphean tasks! 22 hours ago, The Spadgent said: Ooooh lovely. Thank-you Johnny. Hope life's treating you well my man; seems like we're both up to our eyes these days! I managed to ankle it in to the brass-banging room first thing morn at the end of another demanding week; I look forward to these times of course but the energy levels take longer to recover at present - an hour or so of application to the alloted task and you need to demur before going on to make a mistake. Can't complain, there's plenty worse in the world. As you may recall from the last episode, we still weren't happy with the brass work, were (royal) we? To commence proceedings, the underside had the negative shapes accomodating the undercarriage enlarged slightly to offset any forthcoming curvature at hendie's perspicacious suggestion: This then went into the BendyWendy and came out thus: You'll notice this time around that I learned from previous attempts and didn't anneal the brass; this was a deliberate choice as it's plain to me now that brass of this thickness can happily take a curve whilst retaining its original strength, thus avoiding accidental deformations happening when working further upon it. From here it was into the home-made dapping rig in order to bring the curves down and in at the front: This worked quite nicely for a lash-up job. I haven't forgotten about the channel for the radius arm needing to continue forward from the plastic into the brass opening for the undercarriage: it occurred to me to leave that on for added strength at this stage when bending the part to the required curvature, as previously it had a tendency to splay out when cut in advance. I figure it makes sense to leave it in place for reinforcement for now and cut it out later when permanently mounted into the correct position on the aircraft. A quick offering-up to make sure that it's symmetrical with the other side: Easy to get tunnel vision on these focusssed tasks and neglect to check it against the larger structure that it will form part of. Then adding the top section after similar treatment: Basically at this stage you're trying to keep an eye upon both getting the forward compound curve acceptable,whilst simultaneously ensuring that the overall section fits in the correct orientation to the rest of the aircraft. Further dapping to bring the curves in: I'm taking this part slowly and drawing them down a tiny bit each time: Still - as you can see below - further refinements needed: But the formal outlines of the nacelle section are gradually starting to emerge: Prudence dictates that I leave it at that for now and come back to it with fresh eyes.... I managed to finish Hugh Popham's Sea Flight over a couple of evenings during the week about his time in the FAA - a most understated and insightful account regarding the flux of fear and amazement implicit in going to war. House in emotional ferment today as our youngest is going over to the other side of the country for an overnight fixture for the first time with the rugby club that he plays for. How your babies grow up.... Take care amigos. Tony 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pheonix Posted November 3, 2018 Share Posted November 3, 2018 Slowly does it is my maxim on these occasions. That is a very fine fit of fettling if I may write so. The thickness of the brass cannot be too far from scale and the curves that you are achieving will (eventually) fit very well. Intriguing and inspiring at the same time. P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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