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Tiger I “131” in Tunisia* - Dragon 1/35


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  • 2 weeks later...
On 31/08/2018 at 09:09, daront said:

Hi Stix.

I have to say this Tiger is amazing. The detail and level of paint you have achieved with a brush is outstanding. It has given me plenty of tips and motivation to finish my Tiger model.

Regards

Daron

Hi Daron. Hope you are keeping well. Thank you very much for your very kind comments. I look forward to seeing your Tiger.

Kind regards,

Stix 

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On 12/09/2018 at 10:31, Cokey2412 said:

lovely dry brushing technique, is that the original capture colours i see?

Hi Cokey2412. Thank you very much for your very kind comments. I'm not sure now about the colours. I thought they were from some descriptions but according to some modellers on Britmodeller there are different ideas about what the actual colours were when it was captured. My version is possibly one of the sets of colours it could have been!.......maybe........or not.....

Kind regards,

Stix

 

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On 28/09/2018 at 05:42, Crossiant Oliver said:

Hi Oliver. Thank you very much and I see what you mean about the photo. Thank you.

Kind regards,

Stix

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 9/26/2018 at 8:51 PM, PlaStix said:

Hi Cokey2412. Thank you very much for your very kind comments. I'm not sure now about the colours. I thought they were from some descriptions but according to some modellers on Britmodeller there are different ideas about what the actual colours were when it was captured. My version is possibly one of the sets of colours it could have been!.......maybe........or not.....

Kind regards,

Stix

 

The debate about the correct colouring will go on forever. There are photos showing 131 being inspected (haven't seen them in any books for a long time) which dhow one colour, and pics taken of her being tested in the UK in overall sand.

I came across a source many years ago which claimed the Tigers in Tunisa had two schemes. Tanks from PzBt 501 (including 131) finished in overall Afika Corp Sand Yellow, whilst tanks from PzBt 504 finished in Italian Pea Green with a pic of a 504 machine clearly finished in an overall colour which matches the claim. These machines had Red lettering on the Turrets outlined in white.

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On 05/12/2018 at 20:23, KonigsStreegan said:

holy heck, it looks amazing..

Hi KonigsStreegan and thank you very much for your kind comments.

Kind regards,

Stix

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/24/2018 at 12:47 AM, Das Abteilung said:

But the presence of Panzergrau is not mentioned in any of the Museum material on the rebuild that I have seen.

 

I examined the tank during the rebuild. The heavy exhaust covers, which were protected from repainting by the sheet metal exhaust shields, were in Dunkelgrau when I saw them, and it looked very much like the original finish.

 

The museum published a photo of the turret with the gun removed. This exposed an area of armour that was painted Dunkelgrau.

 

So it's quite possible that this tank was once grey. But it's also possible that only parts of it were. Remember, "tropical" paint was the default for much of the Eastern Front at this time.

 

David

 

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On 8/8/2018 at 4:34 PM, Redcoat2966 said:

He did say there biggest issue was the fact that Tiger was 50+ tons, combined with the transporter; that the bridges over the wadi's could just about take the transporter....

 

 

That doesn't agree with the events of 131's recovery.
The tank was not put on a transporter; it was towed. We have actual film of this, as well as the written report.

The spot where 131 was captured, was almost immediately in British hands because it was the center of a battle. It remained in British hands from that day forward. There was no need to assemble a team to secure the spot.

 

Perhaps he was referring to another Tiger?

 

David

 

Edited by DByrden
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On 12/24/2018 at 11:08 AM, Stealthman said:

The debate about the correct colouring will go on forever......a source many years ago which claimed the Tigers in Tunisa had two schemes. Tanks from PzBt 501 (including 131) finished in overall Afika Corp Sand Yellow, whilst tanks from PzBt 504 finished in Italian Pea Green with a pic of a 504 machine clearly finished in an overall colour which matches the claim. These machines had Red lettering on the Turrets outlined in white.

 

The debate about the colour of African Tigers is pretty much over, following detective work on "131" and systematic study of hundreds of photos.

 

"131" was in the 504, not 501 as you said.

 

The reference to "Afrika Corp Sand Yellow" is just guesswork because there was no colour with that name. The "tropical" colour RAL 8020 sort of fits that description, however it was not used overall on African Tigers. Some components on Tigers of the 501 were painted with it.

 

It's been claimed that African Tigers were repainted with green Italian or American paint. Close examination of Tiger photos, where we can follow certain individual Tigers from Italy through to the end of the African campaign, fails to reveal any overall repainting.

 

The conclusion from these studies is that the colour scheme for all of the African Tigers was the same one restored at Bovington for "131". In other words, RAL 8000 and RAL 7008.  Individual variations are few. Some Tigers of the 501 seem to have more 7008 than usual. Some have their battle repairs "touched up" with RAL 8020. But overall, these were green Tigers.

 

David

 

Edited by DByrden
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Just watching a documentary on 131 and it had just taken out 2 Churchill's before being abandoned,did the crew not have time to destroy their Tiger?

Glad they never though.

 

Oh great paint job on you Tiger and especially been painted by hand.

Bravo.

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51 minutes ago, Karlj72 said:

watching a documentary on 131 and it had just taken out 2 Churchill's before being abandoned

 

I'm afraid that documentary is wrong. The Tank Museum at Bovington were mixing up 131 with another Tiger for years. They corrected their information only a couple of years ago, and now they would tell you the same thing about that documentary.

 

Tiger 131 didn't knock out any tanks in the battle where it was captured.

 

I'm maintaining an up-to-date account of the capture of Tiger 131

 

David

 

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2 hours ago, DByrden said:

I examined the tank during the rebuild. The heavy exhaust covers, which were protected from repainting by the sheet metal exhaust shields, were in Dunkelgrau when I saw them, and it looked very much like the original finish.

 

The museum published a photo of the turret with the gun removed. This exposed an area of armour that was painted Dunkelgrau.

 

So it's quite possible that this tank was once grey. But it's also possible that only parts of it were. Remember, "tropical" paint was the default for much of the Eastern Front at this time.

It is my understanding, perhaps flawed, that 131 was not built as a tropicalised vehicle and that it was originally destined for the Eastern Front until it (and the whole of S.PzAbt 504?) were diverted to Africa via Italy.  With the suggestion that it might have been repainted in Italy en route.  If this is correct, then finding some hidden parts in grey is perhaps not surprising as that may well have been the original factory finish.  But that doesn't fit with Bovington finding 8000 behind wheels and inside stowage bins - areas that field-repainting was unlikely to get to.  But it is also conceivable that some grey-painted component parts were installed because they were in stock and then over-painted later.  This might apply particularly to sub-contract parts, which might have been specified in a single colour not knowing where they would end up,

 

German gun-barrels were factory-finished with a grey heat-resitant lacquer.  Is it conceivable that the exhaust castings and shields, and perhaps the inside of the mantlet tube, were also finished with this?

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On 05/12/2018 at 20:46, Bill.B said:

Brush painted? I gaze at your photos in awe, what a stunning result!  :worthy:

Hi Bill. Thank you very much for your very kind comments.

KInd regards,

Stix

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  • 2 months later...
On 2/8/2019 at 1:53 PM, DByrden said:

 

That doesn't agree with the events of 131's recovery.
The tank was not put on a transporter; it was towed. We have actual film of this, as well as the written report.

The spot where 131 was captured, was almost immediately in British hands because it was the center of a battle. It remained in British hands from that day forward. There was no need to assemble a team to secure the spot.

 

Perhaps he was referring to another Tiger?

 

David

 

 

Just to follow up on this. Events as described in books, even "eye witness's" aren't always as they happened...even by Peter Gudgen...it seems the hill WAS contested, and for a some time......and not the hill that was believed it was captured on for so many years. Point 174, and not Djebel Djaffa..........nearly 10 miles away.

 

Tiger 131 wasn't removed until the 7th May..........securing the spot was imperative. Also, maybe towed out of artillery range, but not all the way to the port, to the UK...........:smirk:

 

 

Biggest shock is the Sherwood Forester's should have the glory.........and not the RTR.

 

Anyway.....not far of my relatives remembrance.......in many ways.

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  • 1 month later...

 

No, 131 was not towed all the way to the UK. It went from the point of capture, to a secure vehicle park south of Medjez el Bab. There it was repaired.

 

David

 

Edited by DByrden
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On 7/24/2018 at 12:47 AM, Das Abteilung said:

As a non-tropicalised tank built in Feb 43 and originally destined for Russia before 504 SPzAbt was diverted to N Africa, one assumes that the original factory finish was Panzergrau. 

 

Actually, most of the Tigers sent to the Eastern Front at that time, were painted in RAL 8000 / 7008. Only the ones earmarked for Leningrad were Dunkelgrau.

 

So "131" didn't need any repainting for Africa.

 

David

 

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18 hours ago, DByrden said:

 

No, 131 was not towed all the way to the UK. It went from the point of capture, to a secure vehicle park south of Medjez el Bab. There it was repaired.

 

David

 

I was being lighthearted......😬who would imagine they’d drag it all the way🤨

 

my point was that the established story “from an eye witness”.......aren’t always correct.....I had it from an eye witness who was there for it’s recovery.........of which someone dismissed in favour of a decades long description from this eye witness; the officer in charge of recovery from the port..to the UK....mine from someone who during the “contested” week after capture, secured it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Many, many years,ago I saw 131 in what was the original Bovington Museum. At that time most exhibits, specially the german WW11 vehicles were still in the colours they were captured in, that I believe included 131. It was overall darkish yellow/ sand - sorry not up on the exact names. Dark gray could be seen on the engine deck and surrounding areas under what seemed to be a sprayed on finish. The tank was naturally 'weathered' and I have no reason to doubt this was it's original finish. Photos of 131  'on test' after arrival in the UK also show it in one overall colour. The colour scheme applied after its restoration bore no resemblance whatsoever to that it wore in the museum for many years.

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