Difference between a late F6F-3 and F6F-5 cowling

[detail is everything]

I ask this question every now and then (see) 

In the hope that someone will one day give a definitive answer.

 

I've looked at the Bentley drawings in MDF 25 from SAM Publications and STILL can't see the difference...

[Troy Smith]

this may help, from here

 

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1459872713

 

What is the difference between Hellcat F6F5 and F6F3 ?

 

  

 



 

There maybe internal differences, but from a modelling perspective a non issue.

 

@Tailspin Turtle is the member here who most likely know though.

 

HTH

T

[Seahawk]

Using the table Troy has reproduced from Barratt Tillman's book, the 2 relevant changes are 4 and 5.  You will see that both occurred late in the F6F-3 production run.  In FAA terms the first aircraft delivered without the lower cowl flap would have been JV100 (Mk.I) and the first without the side bulges somewhere in the JV100-189 batch (still Mk.I).  Both deletions might be considered as aerodynamic cleaning up.  Until someone comes up with some evidence which Tillman, the Squadron Signal Walkround and the Detail and Scale book have all overlooked, I'd suggest no further refinement to Hellcat cowlings took place, apart (maybe!) from internal differences of no modelling relevance.

 

Which makes the answer to your question as originally put: no.

[Grey Beema]

I had better fill the lower cowl flap I had opened in my recent Hellcat then...  JV132..

[Seahawk]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:41 PM, Grey Beema said:

I had better fill the lower cowl flap I had opened in my recent Hellcat then...  JV132..

Or, in the extremely unlikely event of someone peering closely at the relevant area and tutting, you could punch their lights out.  Feels like less work.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Seahawk

[Grey Beema]

2 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Or, in the extremely unlikely event of someone peering closely at the relevant area and tutting, you could punch their lights out.  Feels like less work.

It's an approach...... 

[pat d]

O.K. the I believe the "tighter cowling" is a misnomer.  the -5 had a new fairing added under the center section to clean up the airflow from the intercooler dump area right behind the cowl. It was a elongated triangular fairing  that fitted up against the wing root. Hasegawa correctly supplied this as a separate part on their -5 kits. Here is a photo where you can see the triangular fairing. this aerodynamic clean up fairing was not on the -3 models.  The innercooler air dumped out in this area using a set of flaps similar to cowl flaps located aft of the exhaust troughs. IF there were internal cowl mods as to baffling and seals I am not in the know about this. Also included is a build number sheet with FAA models and where they fit into the production schedule. HTH, Pat D

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Seahawk]

Glad you've dropped by, Pat.  So when was that fairing introduced?  From the very first F6F-5 58000 or sometime later?

[pat d]

I am not sure. There were ongoing mods to the basic airframe through out its run, different tailplane skin thickness, etc. Here is a photo of what is reputed to be the prototype -5 with no fairings and  an experimental Malcom hood type canopy which was not adopted. I would think the fairing pretty much showed up in the earliest production runs of the -5 as Grumman was always looking to increase performance.  If you could find an early -5 with rear windows and the fairing that certainly would help nail it down. Since the -5s were all-over blue the fairing is not that easy to see, and many have missed it.

BTW Interestingly a similar hood showed up on a FAA Hellcat...

 

[detail is everything]

The subject of clear vision hoods on FAA Hellcats has been mentioned before (though I can't find the post in question.

 

Luckily I record these things so they are not lost.

 

The following are not my words but those who discussed the matter.

 

NF.II Malcolm blown hoods

 

The Malcolm blown hood appears to have been fitted to one or two Royal Navy Hellcat NF.II`s operating as night fighters with 892 NAS towards the end of WW2 and maybe on into 1946.  As Blackburns were the allocated "sister" design company for Grumman in the UK, I would suggest they were the only source for modifications of this type to Grumman a/c.

 

Specific FAA mods were done by the Blackburn team in the US, but as this is a British mod I would think it likely to have its genesis at Sherbourne in Elmet. Just a thought, but could it be that the blown hood was a straight replacement fit from UK sources for FAA a/c with damaged hoods so they were not necessarily fitted by serial block.

 

Information, which came from an ex-employee of Malcolm, was that they were made by a team of six literally pulling the heated material over a mold, hence the fairly even bulging, since it had to be pulled off the mold (difficult with any undercut) when cool. Supermarine and Westland (at least) had their own canopy-making system, which involved air being blown in, from underneath, making complex bulges less difficult.

 

I`ve seen a photo of a bubble canopied Hellcat before and I`ve also seen some others, one depicts a Hellcat NF.II fitted with the same canopy and a pair of 20mm cannons, coded `S' while it was hanging over the side of a carrier,...most likely HMS Ocean as the squadron which took the NF.II`s to sea was 892 NAS on this ship.  

 

It has zero length rocket rails, and 20mm cannon with a blown hood.  Likely to be KD110, as according to Sturtivant this aircraft 'went over starboard side onto walkway' on 27.11.45.

No other 892 squadron Hellcat accident description fits what can be seen in the photo. Could be coded 5-S or O5S, but it doesn`t appear to have the full 05+ codes yet and may not even have the earlier prefix `5' either, which made me think that this was during the work up period before embarking when only the single code letter `S' would be worn on the fuselage?.

 

There also appears to be something which may be artwork,......looks like two figures which could be a man and a woman with a dress on and it is certainly in the right place as other Hellcat NF.II`s also carried artwork in this position.

 

See the following post for a model of the aircraft in question

 

 

[Troy Smith]

35 minutes ago, detail is everything said:

The subject of clear vision hoods on FAA Hellcats has been mentioned before (though I can't find the post in question.

 

 

[detail is everything]

The clue was in the title! - clearly not good at searching for topics😕

[tempestfan]

Don’t worry- „FAA Hellcats with Malcolm hoods“ is just a title so blatantly obvious no one would look for 😄

Really, it takes some luck - modifying a search really subtly may yield surprising results, I guess many of us have done that & been there. Certainly me.