50 Sq's black BE2 nightfighters

[Seahawk]

I seem to be on a WWI kick at the moment, inspired by the Airfix BE2c kit.  I am currently trying to gather data on the black-painted BE2c and BE2es operated by 50 (HD) Squadron.  Would be grateful for any further photos than those I list.  Key to references at end.  Although not necessarily mentioned I have looked through both editions of the Windsock Datafiles on both the BE2c and the BE2e (ie 4 in all).

 

The basic story is this (from Putnam's The Air Defence of Britain 1914-18), p.99: "Malcolm Christie (Maj MG Christie, CO of 50 Sq) was responsible for the first specialised colour scheme for night fighters.  During August [1916] he black-doped all his BEs, explaining to the Dover Garrison Commander that this was partly for invisibility but mainly to prevent pilots from being blinded when using their wingtip landing flares.  To help identify these sinister black aircraft during daytime training flights, white rings the same size as the outer blue of the national roundels were painted on the upper and lower wing surfaces.  GHQ Home Forces approved the scheme and promulgated it for adoption by all "black-winged night flying machines" on 29 August.  Many months passed before it was appreciated that the white circles did much to destroy the desired invisibility."  Somewhere along the line 50 Sq also took to decorating the undersides of the top wingtips and the fuselage sides with a skull and crossbones device though there seems to be a line of thought that this was just a personal marking.

 

a.  BE2e.  No visible serial.  Crashed aircraft.  Overall black apart from underside of lower wing, tailplanes and fuselage aft of rear spar (all clear-doped).  Pale coloured roundels on underside of lower wing.  Forward-facing white skull and crossbones on underside of (black-painted) underside of starboard wingtip.  Markings on uppersurfaces and port underside of upper wing not shown.  References: ADB p.100, AWGB p.36, Wingsock Datafile 14, p.27 (all the same photo)

 

b.  BE 2e.  No visible serial.  Very contrasty photo but all visible surfaces (undersides and side) appear to be black.  2 Le Prieur rocket rails on each set of outer interplane struts.  Skull and crossbones on fuselage side between forward and after cockpits.  No other markings visible.  Caption says "..thought to be one of the 6 machines doped black overall as a result of a unit directive of 17 August 1917."  AWGB p. 36, Windsock Datafile 165, p.25

 

c.  BE2c.  Overall black with white ring markings in at least upper surface and fuselage positions.  No rudder stripes  No info on undersides of wings, fuselage or tailplanes.  Apparently no wheel covers ie spoked mainwheels!  AM April 83 p.340.

 

Some of you will be aware of Blue Rider sheet BR300 which covers 2 50 (HD) Sq aircraft.  The second appears to be aircraft c above though it is depicted with wheel covers.  But where is there evidence for the other scheme, with ring roundels in 4 wing positions, a fuselage skull and crossbones and the underwing skull and crossbones facing outward to the wingtips?  I have consulted all the references Blue Rider cite except the Munson book "Aircraft of World War I".

 

So there's the sum of my knowledge.  Can anyone add to it?  All contributions gratefully received.

 

AM: Airfix Magazine

ADB: The Air Defence of Britain 1914-18,  Chrostopher Cole and EF Cheesman, Putnam 1984

AWGB: Air War over Great Britain 1914-18 by RL Rimell (Vintage Warbirds 7)

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2018 by Seahawk

[Seahawk]

A couple more photos of 50 Sq black nightfighters, added for the sake of completeness and also as a bump:

 

d.  Black BE 2c in a line-up of 50 Sq BE 2c and BE 2e in more conventional markings (normal fuselage roundels, rudder stripes).  No date to photo.  White ring on fuselage and small light rectangle on late-type fin.  The caption identifies this aircraft as 2711 so the rectangle could well be the serial.  No other markings visible.  The way the light catches the upper wings makes it impossible to tell their colour, let alone if there are any markings.  AWGB title spread.

 

e.  BE 12 nose with 50 Sq personnel posing on it.  Small skull and crossbones on engine pod below prop.  This area is not visible sufficiently clearly in any of the other photos.  AWGB p.37.

[mhaselden]

British Aviation Sqn Markings of WWI p.104.  BE2e with natural dope undersides of lower wings, fuselage and tailplane.  Underside of starboard upper wing in darker tone with skull and crossbone visible.  

Edited July 25, 2018 by mhaselden

[Seahawk]

Thanks for the contribution, Mark.  Don't have that book so a few questions if I may:

a.  Are the undersides of the fuselage doped linen from the rear of the engine pod or just aft of the after spar?

b.  Is the top of the underwing skull orientated towards the leading edge or the wingtip?

c.  Is there any kind of roundel on the undersides of the lower wing?

d.  What types of roundel, if any, are worn on the fuselage side and upper wing?

e.  Is there a skull and crossbones on the fuselage e.g. between the cockpits?

f.  Presumably no rudder stripes and no serial?

g.  Any armament visible?

 

Of course I appreciate that the angle of the shot will mean you won't be able to answer some of the questions.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Seahawk

[mhaselden]

13 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Thanks for the contribution, Mark.  Don't have that book so a few questions if I may:

 

Of course I appreciate that the angle of the shot will mean you won't be able to answer some of the questions.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

a.  Hard to tell.  It's possible that the area between the wing spars is a dark dope but, on balance, I think it's just dirty and/or damaged.

b. Toward the leading edge.

c.  Yes, large roundels right at the wing tips.

d.  Not visible.

e.  Not visible.

f.  Serial not visible but rudder stripes definitely visible.

g.  Alas, no...although it's possible there's a curved mount visible for a gun mounted on the upper wing centre section.  Can't be 100% on that...but it's possible.  

 

Photo captions says the incident took place at Detling in 1917.

Edited July 24, 2018 by mhaselden

[wmcgill]

Quote "a.  BE2e.  No visible serial.  Crashed aircraft.  Overall black apart from underside of lower wing, tailplanes and fuselage aft of rear spar (all clear-doped).  Pale coloured roundels on underside of lower wing.  Forward-facing white skull and crossbones on underside of (black-painted) underside of starboard wingtip.  Markings on uppersurfaces and port underside of upper wing not shown.  References: ADB p.100, AWGB p.36, Wingsock Datafile 14, p.27 (all the same photo)"

 

A slightly clearer print of this crash scene in Over The Front vol 30 No.4 2015 reveals the V12 RAF4a engine identifying this as a B.E.12a (although they continue to incorrectly identify it as a B.E.2e).

[Seahawk]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 2:20 AM, mhaselden said:

British Aviation Sqn Markings of WWI p.104.  BE2e with natural dope undersides of lower wings, fuselage and tailplane.  Underside of starboard upper wing in darker tone with skull and crossbone visible.  

Mark.  We discussed off-line and agreed that this is the same as  photo a. in my original post.

 

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 10:22 PM, wmcgill said:

A slightly clearer print of this crash scene in Over The Front vol 30 No.4 2015 reveals the V12 RAF4a engine identifying this as a B.E.12a (although they continue to incorrectly identify it as a B.E.2e).

Thanks for that.  Unfortunately this now rules out the prime markings candidate for my BE2e conversion.  ☹️

[Seahawk]

Photo f: Flypast Jan 2019 pp. 96-7.  Blurry front starboard quarter view credited to Felix Moore (may help date).  2 BE2c aircraft at Throwley, no date.  Aircraft in foreground is apparently in overall black and has white skull and crossbones marking between the 2 cockpits (both occupied).  No other markings visible.  Tail and underside of top wing outboard of interplane struts out of shot.  Very short exhaust ejecting outwards and slightly downwards from the manifold.  No obvious armament.  Aircraft in background also apparently in black.  Angle and ground crew mean no markings visible except that there may be a serial in white on fin (shape of fin not clear).  2 Le Prieur rocket rails on interplane struts.  May have standard exhausts.

 

Still hoping to flush out some more info and/or photos.

 

Edit: apparently there is a 2007 book by Anthony Moor (author of the Flypast article) called "Throwley 1917-19: Kent's Forgotten Airfield".  Secondhand prices are a bit steep for me: does anyone have it?

Edited December 27, 2018 by Seahawk

[sanguin]

Living only a few miles from Throwley, I have both the 'Airfield Focus No 58' written by Anthony Moor published in 2003 and his much expanded 'Kent's Forgotten Airfield  Throwley' from 2007.

Both are interesting in themselves, but neither gives much in the way of photographic coverage to Be2c.

The larger volume has one image of a ?doped linen Be2c of the RNAS serial 992 and a Be12 A6303 with no obvious squadron markings.

If you want pictures of night fighting Pups or Camels, please buy the second version. Mine was £12.99 in the Faversham Society shop; I assume the second hand prices reflect the minority interest and small print run.

As to the Be2, not worth your consideration, i'm afraid.

John

 

 

[Seahawk]

Many thanks: that closes off that line of enquiry then.  I already have a photo of 992 and would not be at all surprised to find it's the same one.

 

Thanks for looking.

[Marklo]

I've gone down this line of  enquirery too  and ended up doing my BE2c as an RNAS nightfighter. Mostly because although there are plenty of 50 squadron photos to be had, none of them are clear on how the roundels were displayed, ie were they white rings, lighter red, white and blue, red overpainted or blue overpainted, plus I wanted to do a single seater so hence this is the result, probably more a homage than a 100% accurate build, but I'm happy with the results.

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by Marklo