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A Spitfire diorama...which kits?...


Scratchbuilder

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Hi all, I have been asked to produce a diorama of the Spitfire production line. I want to do it as a false perspective box, a proper diorama, not a mere set-piece. For this I'd need a 32nd, a 48th and a 72 scale kits of the same Mark, which seems to be a Mk. V.  I could, at a pinch go for a 24th, a 32nd and a 48th for a bigger dio., depends on what's available.  And there's the rub.  Are kits available WITH engines for that Mk. of Spit?  And please, no overpriced Tamiya rip-offs.  It might be someone else's money but I want as much of it as I can keep!

You guys all know your kits so much better than I.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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I think you’re going to get one or two replies on this!

 

The ‘best kit’ I would suggest depends on what you’re depicting and scale. For brevity I’m only going to mention 1/72.

 

For fuselages only then you could use the new Airfix Mk.I, as structurally the I/II/V are similar. It’s also cheap and widely available. For whole Vb’s then the ‘old’ Airfix Mk.V is probably most common. Revell do a Vb but without the gull wing. Sword and KP have/will do you a Vb and Vc. 

 

Non-one does engines out of the box and you’re into the realms of aftermarket. Try the usual suspects for resin.

 

Good luck!

 

Trevor 

 

 

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Thanks, Trevor. It has to be the three scales as mentioned for the perspective effect.  I'm really surprised that there are no engines in 48th kits.  I take it there will be engines in the 32nd scale jobs.  I'm a little concerned to find that the resin Merlin in 1/72nd scale is 150% the cost of the kit!  Gawd knows what they want for a 48th scale one.

Maybe it's the heat, but I must say I'm a bit underwhelmed by the response which, as you suggest, I would have expected to go through the roof!

 

Cheers,

Martin

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Hello Martin  @Scratchbuilder ... Try looking at ICM Spitfire’s in 1/48 scale. I bought a Mk. IX years ago and there was a merlin in the kit. I think the ICM’s might be possible clones of Hasegawa spitfire’s. If nothing else you could use it for the engine. 

 

Dennis

 

PS - Im assuming the assembly line wont have full sets of markings ? You could always use eduard overtree’s sets ? In 1/48 & 1/72 they are cheap and quite detailed.

Edited by Corsairfoxfouruncle
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12 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

 I think the ICM’s might be possible clones of Hasegawa spitfire’s. If nothing else you could use it for the engine.

The ICM kits definitely aren’t clones of Hasegawa’s.  Although the fuselage is the right length the contours of the upper fuselage behind the cockpit are a bit pinched.  I don’t know off-hand if ICM do a Mk. V.  The engine is, in any case, a bit of a ‘mare to install anyway.

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Thanks @stever219 ... I Wasn't sure about the Lineage. Since the O/P was building an assembly line i presumed the cowlings wouldn't need to be closed. Im thinking that would help eliminate the fit issues around the merlin. :hmmm:Either way it was just a suggestion as was my Post script of eduard overtrees. Its up to Martin if he follows any of my suggestions. 

 

Dennis

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There is an engine in the 1/48 series of metal Revival Spitfire kits. If you can get hold of one it could be copied....

I have one but it's a PR XIX, so a Griffon.  How about a 1/48 Mossie kit for a Merlin?

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If engines are a requirement, you‘d be best off with a Mk I or II - the Airfix 1/24 has a full engine (also modified to something like a Vb), as has the old tool Revell 1/32, though you’d have to do a lot beefing up the details with the latter. The Revell was also sold as a Seafire with some added cannon  bulges which may be of help bringing it closer to a V. For 1/48, an idea could be to marry the Airfix Vb (1979 tool, existing in a plethora of boxings) which is reasonably accurate and should be available cheaply to the ICM IX engine. The engine probably would need some tweaking to backdate the 60 series to a 45. ICM should again be cheap on the second hand market. Moreover, it’s possible that many who have built their ICM buttoned up have left out the engine as this may be the root cause of some of the fit issues, so you have a good chance someone has one in the spares box.

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7 hours ago, Scratchbuilder said:

Maybe it's the heat, but I must say I'm a bit underwhelmed by the response which, as you suggest, I would have expected to go through the roof!

Maybe because it doesn't matter which kits you use......... to build this diorama in the quality you usually produce you are going to have to do so much scratch-building that the kit will be practicably unrecognisable.  Maybe your criteria should include thinnest, most easily worked plastic, possession of an engine (but most don't). cheapest -especially if you are going for 10-20 assembly stations (:>). best fuselage sides fit, compatibility with whatever resin you use etc etc. Do please start a WIP on this one - I'd love to see it!

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Ed, this has to be done with 3 kits to get the size down, but still look like a production line. It is fuselages only and engines on show, so no potential fit problems and no wing considerations.  It's looking more likely that it'll be 24th, 32nd and 48th to get the engines in the kits, using a cheap Airfix 24th off ebay.

Also will need lady fitters crawling over them and standing on the staging/ladders. Apparently most workers were women.

Thanks for your nice words, Ed, but on this one, for time and cost reasons, scratchbuilding will have to be kept to a minimum.I'm considering the 24th option because a 1/72nd resin Merlin makes a 72nd scale model damned expensive, whereas 24th, 32nd and 48th can all come with engines.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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What a neat idea! Here's what I think:

 

  • 1/24 Airfix or Trumpeter Spitfire V kits have engines. You'd need to add some detail though. Airfix engine is more basic but slightly more accurate.
  • 1/32 You have a choice between the old Hasegawa V, new Revell I/II, or Hobbyboss V kit. Hobbyboss comes with an engine and separate panels (with the other ones you'd have to cut them, and get a Merlin engine from somewhere else). Problem with Hobbyboss is that the fuselage has a bit of an odd shape (a little fat and boxy) and the front canopy is suitable only for early Vs. Worse, the Hobbyboss engine is not great. Alternatively, you can use a Tamiya IX fuselage and add a V engine. The fuselage of the IX was the same as I-Vs. Eduard make a very good 1/32 Merlin for the Mosquito - with some modifications it can be used for a mk V Spitfire.
  • 1/48 Several options for Spitfire V kits (Airfix, Tamiya), but here too you could use a IX fuselage (Eduard, ICM) to create a V if you use a mk V engine. Several aftermarket options for a resin engine in 1/48 are available. No 1/48 Spitfire V comes with an engine out of the box - only ICM's IX series come with an engine.
  • 1/72 no Spitfire kit comes with an engine out of the box.

 

So, in short, if you want to focus on mk V Spitfires out of the box only 1/24 options (Airfix & Trumpeter) and a 1/32 option (Hobbyboss) comes with an engine, albeit a crappy one. (There is an ancient Revell Spitfire V kit too that comes with an engine, but it's difficult to find). No 1/48 Spitfire V kit comes with an engine in the box, let alone in 1/72.

 

If you focus on Spitfire IXs out of the box you could get a Tamiya IX in 1/32, ICM's IX in 1/48, but nothing in 1/24 or again in 1/72. But you could use a 1/24 Spitfire V airframe to pose as a IX if you add a later Merlin, perhaps one sourced from a 1/24 P-51 (Airfix is probably best) or scratch built.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Scratchbuilder said:

Ed, this has to be done with 3 kits to get the size down, but still look like a production line. It is fuselages only and engines on show, so no potential fit problems and no wing considerations.  It's looking more likely that it'll be 24th, 32nd and 48th to get the engines in the kits, using a cheap Airfix 24th off ebay.

Also will need lady fitters crawling over them and standing on the staging/ladders. Apparently most workers were women.

Thanks for your nice words, Ed, but on this one, for time and cost reasons, scratchbuilding will have to be kept to a minimum.I'm considering the 24th option because a 1/72nd resin Merlin makes a 72nd scale model damned expensive, whereas 24th, 32nd and 48th can all come with engines.

 

Cheers,

Martin

Aeroclub used to do a range of white metal Merlin engines. You might be able to locate some at a decent price.

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This is all so tempting to stock up on, but until I get an OK and a deposit I'd be daft to start buying in bits, though sod's law says they'll all be gone if and when I need to start buying in.

 

I think it looks like being 24th, 32nd, and 48th, if only to get a couple of engines, if not all.  The mediator said I could go Mk IX if necessary.  I'm told that a Mk IX fuselage is much the same as a Mk I, II and V. No wings on show remember. I'm sure mods can be made to the Merlins in the kits.

 

Elger, thankyou for the very complete run down on what's available.  Is the Hobbyboss really so bad?  Considering it's sandwiched between a 24th and a 48th version.

 

It seems that resin aftermarket engines are so expensive and that side of things has to be watched carefully if this job (for that is what it is) is to make me anything at all.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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No I wouldn't say that overall the Hobbyboss Spitfire is bad; as a kit it's actually quite nice. Quality molding, nice surface detail and it seems to fit really well too. The side view of the fuselage is fine; it's only when you look at it from the front, and especially if you have it next to the superb Tamiya kit, that the subtle shortcomings become apparent. There's two areas where you can see it, if you look very closely: in cross section, the fuselage in front of the cockpit (so the engine bulkhead) should be slightly horse shoe shaped, with the sides bending slightly inward towards the bottom (like an inverted V). The Hobbyboss sides are vertical, like an inverted U). The other area where it's noticable is the spine behind the cockpit (at the rear window). The Hobbyboss spine is round, but it should be slightly flat on top.

 

Frankly though, these differences are very subtle and especially in a diorama (with the cheerleader effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheerleader_effect) these things will be difficult to notice.

 

The engine is rather disappointing but with a bit of scratchbuilding could be vastly improved. Some really beautiful builds of this kit exist, notably Ralph Riese's model (see here: http://barracudacals.com/gallery/index.php/Hobby-Boss-1-32-Spitfire-Mk-Vb-Trop---Ralph-Riese---Brisbane-Australia) and more recently Daniel David's beautiful Seafire conversion: https://www.largescaleplanes.com/articles/article.php?aid=3150

 

And as I said, the Hobbyboss kit comes with an early type windscreen that was only fitted to early Vs. Riese and David both replaced the windscreen of their kit with a later type (spare from Tamiya, in Riese's case).

 

Other than that, it sure looks like a Spitfire to me...

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and another thought: a 1/24 Spitfire with an engine included in the kit might be more expensive than a 1/72 kit with an aftermarket engine that you would need to buy extra; if you buy retail, a 1/24 Spitfire from Trumpeter is £90 or so (Airfix a bit cheaper). A 1/72 Spitfire you can get for less than £10.00 probably and for example CMK's Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I Engine set for the Airfix kit retails at about £11.50.

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13 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Thanks @stever219 ... I Wasn't sure about the Lineage. Since the O/P was building an assembly line i presumed the cowlings wouldn't need to be closed. Im thinking that would help eliminate the fit issues around the merlin. :hmmm:Either way it was just a suggestion as was my Post script of eduard overtrees. Its up to Martin if he follows any of my suggestions. 

 

Dennis

Thanks Dennis: I really shouldn’t post when I’m feeling tired and clapped out after a long hot day slaving over a hot charity shop.    You’re right of course: if the engine’s out the fuselage could be almost anything from K5054 to a Mk. XIX.  Sadly if our OP’s going to include engines in his diorama he’ll have to modify those from the ICM kit (if he goes that way), taking them back from 60-series to 45-series or thereabouts.

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The first parts shot here will give you an impression what the old-tool Revell kit engine looks like. Apart from the missing gull wing which possibly isn't relevant for you, I still like that kit, it has very nice surface detail for the time.

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So,l Airfix 24th bought cheap from ebay, Revell 32nd because it ain't bad shape wise and has an engine I can work on and ICM 48th which also has an engine.  72nd is too small for me really and the cost of an engine set is silly compared with the kit cost.

 

Gentlemen, thanks for your help on this. I will let you all know when and if this starts.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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I have to disagree with your description of “over priced Tamiya rip offs”.  The Tamiya 1/32 Sptifires are simply the best kits of the airplane there have ever been, or probably ever will be.  They are worth every penny.

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Sonoran, I have seen criticisms of Tamiya stuff too. In which case the prices they charge are a rip off. They are up to FIVE times what others of almost the same quality cost. That is ridiculous. It costs no more to tool up for theirs than it does a "lesser" company. They have just built up a name for themselves which now enables them to command prices beyond their worth.  If I could be sure that the clients would pay for anything required without grumbles, I might go for a Tamiya just for the engine, but as usual they won't, so it has to be whatever else there is and clearly there are models out there that only a real rivet counter would notice any difference with, which can be made to look every bit as good.  Perhaps those who only ever stick kits together are happy to pay Tamiya prices, because they're told thy are the best. Those of us who can make some stuff are generally less inclined to be so easily led.  Fashion has less effect on us.

Please let's not dissolve into the kind of kit snobbery that has ruined model railways of late.

 

I am NOT impressed by anyone spending too much on a kit.  It's up to them what they waste their money on, of course.  I don't care, but don't ask me to join that particular club.

 

Martin

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