Corsair F4U-1a and 1d- FAA or NZ build help needed please

[Antb]

Evening all, 

 

firstly, apologies if this has been asked before I couldn't find anything specific searching the forum. If it hasn't been and the answer is elsewhere I'd be grateful for a pointer and then the Mods can delete this. 

 

Im looking at a future project building either a FAA or NZ Corsair in 1/32 scale and on doing some research understand that they both used the F4U-1a and the d. Versions. 

 

Looking at the available kits I have the options of Tamiya and Trumpeter. I'm swaying towards the Trumpeter kit as don't want anything shake and bake and want to have a project to work on over a good while. The reason I'm lookmg at Trumpeter is that I can add loads of aftermarket to it to add to the entire project. Granted I could just plump for the Tamiya version but where's the fun in that. Also for the cost of Tamiya kit I can get quite a bit of aftermarket and make a really detailed kit. 

 

Onto why I need help. The Trumpeter kits available are the d and the F4u4 versions and not the 1a. All the aftermarket bits I can find are for the 1a with little for the d model although all the 1a parts state can be used on the Trumpeter kit. 

 

Now my question. If I was to purchase the d model kit and add the 1a aftermarket parts does this make any difference. If it does I can't understand why there is no 1a kit available. I want a build as accurate as possible so if it's not in the same ballpark where do I go with it? Just buy the Tamiya instead? 

 

Id be really grateful for any advice so I can get my head around things. 

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, Antb said:

Evening all, 

 

 

 

Im looking at a future project building either a FAA or NZ Corsair in 1/32 scale and on doing some research understand that they both used the F4U-1a and the d. Versions. 

 

Looking at the available kits I have the options of Tamiya and Trumpeter. I'm swaying towards the Trumpeter kit as don't want anything shake and bake and want to have a project to work on over a good while. The reason I'm lookmg at Trumpeter is that I can add loads of aftermarket to it to add to the entire project. Granted I could just plump for the Tamiya version but where's the fun in that. Also for the cost of Tamiya kit I can get quite a bit of aftermarket and make a really detailed kit. 

 

Onto why I need help. The Trumpeter kits available are the d and the F4u4 versions and not the 1a. All the aftermarket bits I can find are for the 1a with little for the d model although all the 1a parts state can be used on the Trumpeter kit. 

 

Now my question. If I was to purchase the d model kit and add the 1a aftermarket parts does this make any difference. If it does I can't understand why there is no 1a kit available. I want a build as accurate as possible so if it's not in the same ballpark where do I go with it? Just buy the Tamiya instead? 

 

Id be really grateful for any advice so I can get my head around things. 

The issue you have for an RNZAF F4U-1A, using the Trumpeter Kit is, the metal skinning on the under surfaces of the wing

for the Rocket Stubs (F4U-1A didn't have that) also the Propeller Blade is a wider chord as opposed to 1A.  The canopy

is the full blown type which is only found on the later F4U-1D and FG-1D.

The cockpit had some differences between the two also.

 

 RNZAF version, You would only have a choice of Overall Glossy Sea Blue F4U-1D (no Rocket Stubs) or

an RNZAF FG-1D (can do with Rocket Stubs - rockets never fitted or fired operationally in WWII) both

can be an attractive scheme. If desired you can do a Post WWII FG-1D with 14 Squadron in Japan.

 

Regards

 

Alan

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Hello @Antb ... Here is a very good thread on  Kiwi Corsairs.

 

 Heres a good one for 1850 Sq. FAA.

 

More

There is a good link for post war Kiwi corsairs in post #5 in this ⬇️ thread. 

This should give you some good starts with research. I am happy to help as much as i can, though im not the greatest expert on FAA & Kiwi corsairs. 

 

Dennis

 

PS - I second the Tamiya suggestion. 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Corsairfoxfouruncle

[FG2Si]

If it was my money, I'd go the Tamiya route over the Trumpeter kit plus AM any day. I'm almost certain you'd  come out ahead financially as well. 

 

I tried to build the Trumpeter kit and ended up binning it after  throwing a bunch of AM at it. Partly this was due to the fit issues related to some of the AM bits. The worst offender was the Aires MLG bays. They are simply far too thick to fit in the wing without sanding everything paper thin. Or right through in my case. This has been a universal complaint so I know it wasn't just me. The Trumpeter engine is also too long and getting the right sit in the cowl is a bit of a challenge. There's a fantastic build thread on Large Scale Planes where the member backdated the Trumpy kit into a birdcage F4U-1. Ignoring the bits related to the birdcage, the rest of the build would still apply and should give you a bit of an idea. 

 

As for the Tamiya kits, they're not quite shake and bake but they do go together really well. You definitely need to pay attention to the instructions. I've managed to build two so far and have a couple more in the stash. One was as the famous split RNZAF Corsair.

 

 

 

If you're looking for info on FAA Corsairs, fundekals on their website has a great article on them that's free to download. 

 

Hope that helps, 

 

Carl

 

 

 

 

[72modeler]

Alan, FG2si, and Corsairfoxfouruncle have provided you with excellent reference material and advice concerning your project. 1/32 is definitely not my scale, and I'm not familiar with the Trumpeter kit to be able to help you with correcting the issues it has versus buying the outstanding Tamiya kit and backdating it to the F4U-1a configuration. I understand using the Trumpeter kit to practice your skills upon, but after buying all of the aftermarket parts needed to upgrade the poor kit castings, you would probably spend more than the Tamiya kit, and you would still need to do the revisions mentioned by Alan to backdate it. The canopy that comes in the Tamiya -1d can easily be converted to the -1a type by painting in the horizontal canopy framing as well as the curved metal section at the top of the hood at the rear. You can also rescribe the lower outer wing panels to simulate the fabric-covered surface of the -1a and can do the rib tapes with decal or tape strips. The paddle blade prop that comes with the -1d can be reshaped to make the one fitted to the -1a, which IIRC, had a more slender shank and was either 1" longer or shorter than the paddle blade unit. If you go the -1d route, be sure to remember not to fit the two bomb/fuel tank pylons fitted to the inboard wing center section, as the -1a only had provision for a bomb or fuel tank on  the centerline. I haven't got a clue what the cockpit differences between the two versions are, but might be associated with different armament management panels. Not my area of expertise, but here's my two cents' worth. The other three gentlemen have much more knowledge on Corsairs than I, especially in the larger scales!

Mike

[FG2Si]

The - 1A is available from Tamiya so no backdating required. That's the kit is used for my Corsair above. 

 

One more bit that needs fixking on the Trumpeter kit is the cowl. LSP made a correction set for this but it's long OOP. Fortunately the Tamiya kits came with two cowls (one clear, one in grey) so if you decide you still want to try that route, I can send you a spare if you like. 

 

There's also a third option for a - 1A kit and that's the old Revell kit. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the - 1A detail sets you're looking at were designed for that kit. The specific ones designed for the newer Tamiya release are the Eduard Brassin cockpit and engine and the GMF oil tank. 

 

Carl

[David H]

I cannot recommend the Trumpeter F4U-1D Corsair in good conscience. It is an over engineered hot mess.

 

-d-

[Antb]

Wow what can I say but a massive thank you to each and every one of you for the replies. 

 

The information help and advice is brilliant thank you all so much. 

 

I have done some research on the trumpeter kit and the reviews I found seem to suggest the kit is quite decent. But given the experiences above I don't think that this is the way forward. Looks like tamiya will be my choice of kit. 

 

Out of interest with all the aftermarket available for the tamiya kit what parts would be worth acquiring to enhance the kit further? I know tamiya kits are detailed but what would be recommended to be added? 

 

Thanks again chaps I really appreciate your input. 

 

[72modeler]

Once again, I will defer to my 1/32 Corsair modeling  colleagues, as I have only had an in-box look at a friend's Tamiya kit, but I would think an Eduard zoom set (mainly for the seatbelt- guys, did the Anzacs use Q-type or the USN belts?) tires, and depending on what comes in the -1a kit and the version you want to model, maybe a prop with the correct chord blades, although if it comes with the paddle-blade prop, it can be reshaped pretty easily. What I  remember seeing of the kit was that it was incredibly well detailed already- good luck on your project. IIRC, there is an aftermarket firm that does faded NZ insignia, should you want to do a well-used example, but I don't recall the company...not my scale, y'see!

Mike

 

Did not know they did a -1a, I thought they just did birdcage and -1d's, or I might have been thinking of 1/48 and 1/72!

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

8 hours ago, Antb said:

 

Out of interest with all the aftermarket available for the tamiya kit what parts would be worth acquiring to enhance the kit further? I know tamiya kits are detailed but what would be recommended to be added?

Personally I would re-read the reviews of the Tamiya kit that I was going to purchase. Then i would purchase the kit and take a look at it in person. Only then would i decide which A/M to purchase depending on what i felt needs to be replaced/enhanced. That being said its a Tamiya kit so im thinking not a lot. 

 

Dennis

[tempestfan]

A couple of years ago, the 21st Century toys kit may have been a viable alternative, as at least the Brett Green review on HS suggests it’s more than decent. However, when I look at baybay and the prices asked there, that no longer seems to hold true...

[Antb]

3 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Once again, I will defer to my 1/32 Corsair modeling  colleagues, as I have only had an in-box look at a friend's Tamiya kit, but I would think an Eduard zoom set (mainly for the seatbelt- guys, did the Anzacs use Q-type or the USN belts?) tires, and depending on what comes in the -1a kit and the version you want to model, maybe a prop with the correct chord blades, although if it comes with the paddle-blade prop, it can be reshaped pretty easily. What I  remember seeing of the kit was that it was incredibly well detailed already- good luck on your project. IIRC, there is an aftermarket firm that does faded NZ insignia, should you want to do a well-used example, but I don't recall the company...not my scale, y'see!

Mike

 

Did not know they did a -1a, I thought they just did birdcage and -1d's, or I might have been thinking of 1/48 and 1/72!

That's great thank you. 

 

45 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Personally I would re-read the reviews of the Tamiya kit that I was going to purchase. Then i would purchase the kit and take a look at it in person. Only then would i decide which A/M to purchase depending on what i felt needs to be replaced/enhanced. That being said its a Tamiya kit so im thinking not a lot. 

 

Dennis

Hi Dennis

 

Thanks again. Usually that's what I'd do however SWMBO has asked me for a  idea what to get me for my birthday and I'm thinking of adding aftermarket into the request for the kit so I get an all in one package. I don't mind adding to it but getting everything together is rather exciting. 

 

From what I've seen you can virtually change the entire kit for aftermarket with the exception of the fuselage and wings the choice is unbelievable. It's where to stop. 

 

 

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

Yes that sums it up. If it were me I would get the obvious pieces. The cockpit or at the least a seatbelt, wheels/tires, Decals/Stickers, possibly a prop if there is an A/M option (havent looked recently as im mostly a 1/48-1/72 builder). The R-2800 is sufficient as they include a clear cowling option. 

 

Dennis

[Antb]

25 minutes ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said:

Yes that sums it up. If it were me I would get the obvious pieces. The cockpit or at the least a seatbelt, wheels/tires, Decals/Stickers, possibly a prop if there is an A/M option (havent looked recently as im mostly a 1/48-1/72 builder). The R-2800 is sufficient as they include a clear cowling option. 

 

Dennis

That's great Dennis thank you again for the assistance. I really do appreciate it. 

[FG2Si]

 

11 hours ago, Antb said:

Wow what can I say but a massive thank you to each and every one of you for the replies. 

 

The information help and advice is brilliant thank you all so much. 

 

I have done some research on the trumpeter kit and the reviews I found seem to suggest the kit is quite decent. But given the experiences above I don't think that this is the way forward. Looks like tamiya will be my choice of kit. 

 

Out of interest with all the aftermarket available for the tamiya kit what parts would be worth acquiring to enhance the kit further? I know tamiya kits are detailed but what would be recommended to be added? 

 

Thanks again chaps I really appreciate your input. 

 

For me, I'd add a set of seat belts. The PE ones just don't agree with me. HGW make sets that would be applicable. If you don't like rubber tyres,, several companies make rain replacements. Tamiya has made all three different prop blades so the correct one should be in the appropriate boxing.  One mistake they did make was the the distributor is the wrong type. They got the early and late ones mixed up. Thankfully both versions are in the - 1A kit. The Barracudacast cockpit placards are a nice touch to add but some consider them fiddly. 

 

Lastly, a common mistake made during construction is people glue the outer wing spar channels in place (N51 and N58). Don't do this as it makes it harder to slide the wings onto the spars. 

 

Carl

Edited July 16, 2018 by FG2Si
Typo

[LDSModeller]

8 hours ago, 72modeler said:

Once again, I will defer to my 1/32 Corsair modeling  colleagues, as I have only had an in-box look at a friend's Tamiya kit, but I would think an Eduard zoom set (mainly for the seatbelt- guys, did the Anzacs use Q-type or the USN belts?) tires, and depending on what comes in the -1a kit and the version you want to model, maybe a prop with the correct chord blades, although if it comes with the paddle-blade prop, it can be reshaped pretty easily. What I  remember seeing of the kit was that it was incredibly well detailed already- good luck on your project. IIRC, there is an aftermarket firm that does faded NZ insignia, should you want to do a well-used example, but I don't recall the company...not my scale, y'see!

Mike

 

Did not know they did a -1a, I thought they just did birdcage and -1d's, or I might have been thinking of 1/48 and 1/72!

RNZAF F4U-1 (A/D) FG-!D's flew with provided US Seat Harness - The only thing different was the application of

the RNZAF Pacific Roundels in six positions as opposed to 4 on US Aircraft.

 

Again I will emphasize RNZAF Aircraft DID NOT fly and fight with those ridiculous faded Roundels decal companies seem

to want to produce, and  (some) modellers insist on placing on their models. I would suggest reading through the first

topic posted by Corsairfoxfouruncle (post 3), and see my comments re RNZAF Markings

RNZAF Corsair colours and markings

 

Regards

 

Alan

[David H]

Having built 2 of the kits already, i feel that there is very little that the kit is wanting for. I definitely recommend replacing the kit rubber tyres with resin ones from Barracudacast or Eduard. I believe Quickboost or Eduard just released an aftermarket 13'-1" Ham Standard "Paddle Blade" propeller for the kit.

 

I've used the Barracuda cockpit placard set and while time consuming, it really adds a ton of visual interest to the cockpit, which already has a lot going on.

 

I'm a big advocate of painting the national insignias rather than using decals on a model this big. Montex might have a paint mask set which will work.

 

Lastly, i recommend the brass antenna mast and pitot tube set from G-Factor models. The kit masts are brittle and they have weak attachments to the fuselage. Plastic antenna masts will not take very much tension.

 

The kit seat belts and harnesses can be made to work, although i've decided to go with HGW belts on Corsair number 3. I have the FineMolds belts as well but am a little leery of them.

 

And finally, kudos to Carl for pointing out what is arguably the biggest "gotcha" in the kit.

 

-d-

[72modeler]

2 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

RNZAF F4U-1 (A/D) FG-!D's flew with provided US Seat Harness - The only thing different was the application of

the RNZAF Pacific Roundels in six positions as opposed to 4 on US Aircraft.

 

Again I will emphasize RNZAF Aircraft DID NOT fly and fight with those ridiculous faded Roundels decal companies seem

to want to produce, and  (some) modellers insist on placing on their models. I would suggest reading through the first

topic posted by Corsairfoxfouruncle (post 3), and see my comments re RNZAF Markings

RNZAF Corsair colours and markings

 

Regards

 

Alan

I think that maybe because the RNZAF roundels appear to have been painted in a lighter shade of blue than the RAF roundels, some decal makers have interpreted this as being a faded blue and produced their decals accordingly. I would think that having very faded national insignia would not be very wise in a combat area, and thus would tend to be repainted when necessary. I see a lot more photos of very faded and well-used RNZAF Corsairs with freshly painted roundels than vice versa. Good point, Alan!

Mike

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

I think that maybe because the RNZAF roundels appear to have been painted in a lighter shade of blue than the RAF roundels, some decal makers have interpreted this as being a faded blue and produced their decals accordingly. I would think that having very faded national insignia would not be very wise in a combat area, and thus would tend to be repainted when necessary. I see a lot more photos of very faded and well-used RNZAF Corsairs with freshly painted roundels than vice versa. Good point, Alan!

Mike

Hi Mike

 

Interestingly the Decals makers are only part of the problem. The real issue are the people who supply

information to the Decal manufacturers.

 

Some years ago when the Tamiya F4U-1A was ready to come on to the market, a well known aftermarket

decal manufacturer presented on Hyperscale a  "First Look" at some F4U-1A Corsair decals they were going to

market for the New Tamiya model.

The Decal sheet had an RNZAF Corsair (Angry Duck) with pale blue Roundels. I voice my dissent to the accuracy

of the RNZAF Markings. The guy who obviously supplied the information, who was purportedly a Corsair Expert

(Certainly Not on RNZAF Corsairs) said that the markings were painted the correct colours and then faded.

Obviously a "Discussion" ensued and his justification for such "Fading" was that RNZAF markings were "Controversial"!

Controversial my foot! When such "Experts" make asinine comments like that, I know they have no idea.

Fortunately out leading RNZAF Corsair Expert Pete Mossong read the same post and also remarked the real thing

looked nothing like the artistic rendition. Pete in his younger years spent a lot of time roaming around the RNZAF Rukuhia

Aircraft open storage, looking at roundels etc, and has first hand experience.

Long Story short, Pete supplied the correct colours and the decal manufacturer changed to the correct colours.

There are others, like those who write magazine articles doing a build - I know of one (Tamiya Model magazine Feb 2015)

the author knows nothing about RNZAF Corsairs and markings, but portrays he does

Because such a person has " a supposed  Standing in modelling Society" people take what they say as gospel, and build their models

accordingly, then when some well meaning modeller tells them their model is incorrect (with proof), its akin to

a declaration of war.

Unfortunately, we also have here in the Antipodes similar people who hold on to myths and perpetrate them

Edit: I forgot I had these Montex Masks for my Corsair builds - Note these are wrong too again perpetuation of myth,

the yellow kill markings  at the far Right Hand side of the "Angry Duck" decal never existed on NZ5277

 

 

This one always lights up my smile - talk about "hedging your bets" - note the comment

"Probably from the period after returning to New Zealand October 1945"

 

 

 

I could go on, but I think you gather the gist of my continued  annoyance

 

Regards

 

Alan

Edited July 17, 2018 by LDSModeller
added additional information

[Sonoran]

Just to add my £.02, the Trumpeter 1/32 F4U kits are awful from nose to tail.  The Tamiya kits are the exact opposite - nearly perfect in almost every way.  They practically build themselves, but you do need to carefully follow the instructions.  You will not be disappointed with them, and they are very much worth every penny.

[FG2Si]

All this Corsair talk makes me want to build another one. I was planning to do a Spitfire next but it looks like a 1/32 F4U-2 night fighter will be it instead. 

 

Just need to finish the B-25s on my bench first. 

 

Carl

 

 

[David H]

24 minutes ago, FG2Si said:

All this Corsair talk makes me want to build another one. I was planning to do a Spitfire next but it looks like a 1/32 F4U-2 night fighter will be it instead. 

 

Just need to finish the B-25s on my bench first. 

 

Carl

 

 

Hopefully the article i wrote for imodeler might be of some help....

http://imodeler.com/2017/06/a-corsair-for-bob/

There were some differences between the Carrier-Based -2s and the Marine -2s mainly in the paint scheme application.

 

-d-

[FG2Si]

David, Thanks for the link to your article. That's going to be very handy. I'm using Harold's conversion set for this which  should make things a bit easier. 

 

I tried something similar to what you did for the wing root wear on my Birdcage. 

 

 

It took me two tries and a complete strip and repaint to get the final result. 

 

Sorry for the thread creep! 

 

Carl

[Antb]

Hi all 

 

Again, what can I say but a massive thank you for everyone's input. The help and advice you guys have given is absolutely brilliant. 

 

I'm really grateful to you all and I now have a really good idea of what I want to do and what is going on the list. 

 

Seriously great stuff thank you again 

[72modeler]

16 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

Because such a person has " a supposed  Standing in modelling Society" people take what they say as gospel, and build their models

accordingly, then when some well meaning modeller tells them their model is incorrect (with proof), its akin to

a declaration of war.

Alan,

 

Whew! For a minute there, you had me worried, but since I have no standing whatsoever amongst my peers and those who have forgotten more on  most subjects than I'll ever know, I can breathe a sigh of relief! One of the greatest things about BM, in my opinion, is that it pretty much doesn't matter what my interest or knowledge on a given subject is, there are people out there who have much more than I....and the other wonder of this site is- they are so willing to share it with the rest of us! Thanks for your input; I might now  be persuaded to do one of my Corsairs in RNZAF markings, but I think I need to work on my fading and weathering skills first so as to do the model justice. (But, you can rest assured my roundels and bars will not be!)

Mike