Jump to content

Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car


Recommended Posts

Hello Olivier
I don't think the Tamiya recommendations concern you directly.
I didn't believe in plastic for a second, but I think your problem is more related to the different mixes you make and especially with different brands.
When you see that a manufacturer in his own range of products underlines the incompatibility between some products, mixing different brands becomes a crazy thing to master.... Some experts certainly do it very well, but not me.


I use mainly Tamiya and so I stay in the brand for the undercoat, paint, solvent, varnish ....


However, you may have another problem: you painted some parts and as you didn't do everything at once, you come back to them. Your method is surprising, usually I see people painting all the body parts at once.  You certainly have a valid reason but I haven't read all the pages in detail.

You'll get there, I know it  ;o))


The "Repsol" bike is beautiful, I love the colours. I must have made the model about 30, 40 years ago and I don't know if it still exists but I also had the figure that went on the bike, wiggling with the knee on the ground.


Good luck with that. 

 

Edited by Ghost69
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, Olivier. The most important thing to remember is that you seem to have found the source of your troubles.

And don’t forget, you gained experience (at a cost of labour and frustration, I’m afraid). 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 11/02/2022 at 08:14, Totally Mad Olivier said:

+++

Up to now, I tended to incriminate the AMT plastic, but I was certainly wrong.

Now, what precisely the Tamiya warning means?

What should we consider as "lacquer paint"?

Are the putties such Mr Surfacer, Surface Primers etc., as "lacquer paints", considering that they are to thin (sometimes) and clean with cellulosic thinner?

+++

 

This is an area where it is easy to get lost in translation (impossible not to).

 

In my Muttersprache (first language) I would have to split into father tongue and mother tongue and into the language of chemistry-people, paint manufacturers, sales people and painters. And "everybody" would have a differen idea of what "Öllfarbe" (oil based paint) or "Lack" (lacquer) is. My mother would consider any non-water-based "stinking" paint as "oil paint" (including alkyd resin and acrylic resin paint using alcohol based solvents), my father would count linseed oil based paint and alkyd based as "oil paint" (not soluble with water) but nor acrylic resin paint. Talking to a painter (Lackierer (for houses or cars) not Kunstmaler (artist)), a sales person (specialised paint store or home improvement center) and other people bring other new "mixtures" of unclear naming and trade names.

 

When translating things from German to Englisch you get the next level of not matching names for substances (or groups thereof), and I fear from Japanese to other languages in the instruction manual the same problems will be faced.

 

Anyway, we have some kind of binder in our paint (and putty and surfacer) and there are solvents to thin this binder (to set the viscosity or wipe away stains of fresh paint) and some to "resolve" (or destroy) already cured/dried paint (clean dried up brushes).

When the thinner used to thin a paint is suitable to "resolve" the previous layer (or maybe even the plastic), we're in big doo-doo.

And it seems some "solvents" / thinners even harm the paints binder's properties / ability to fully cure. Jamie had some surprises/discoveries using leveling thinner and masking tape.

 

I have to admit, I have now knowledge, what Tamiya referes to as "lacquer" and what is "enamel" in their world. But if your putty/surfacer can be thinned with water or alcohol (be it isopropyl alcohol or ehtanol), it will probably be "resolved" by paint thinned with

"Waschbenzin"/"Reinigungsbenzin" (in German wikipedia refered to as Testenzin, leading to white spirit in the English version),

"Terpentin-Ersatz" (wikipedia calls it "Testbenzin" too, but in case you buy a bottle you may not only smell a difference, but can tell the difference when using it),

"Universalverdünnung" (switching languages within wikipedia leads to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paint_thinner but I could show a bottle and you will be able to tell the difference to other thinners) or

"Nitroverdünnung" (cellulose thinner)

 

I fear some day you will make your own table(s) ...

rows: product (by brand and their name and your suspicion regarding the binder), paint / filler / surfacer / putty

columns: thinner-pruduct (name and your interpretation of the contained chemicals based on material safety data sheets and declaration)

entries in the fields: "thins" (maybe "thins well", "short drying time", long drying tim"), "reliquifies", "turns fresh paint into a gloppy mess", "destroys"

 

and one step further a table with product B used on top of product A will have "works fine" and "ugly" entries.

 

Rely on your nose and the material safety data sheets when determining the substances - and check the makers' declarations occasionally.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jochen (and Olivier), it is indeed very difficult to translate chemical names between languages. Especially when generic names are being used (like paint thinner).  

For that reason I try to stick to paints from one line of a specific manufacturer and i use their thinners too. 

 

If I can’t for whatever reason, I indeed use my nose to determine the type of solvent used. 

Normally it will not be an issue to put enamel paint (like the old humbrol little tins) on top of acrylics (water or alcohol solvents) or the other way around, provided that the previous paint layer is thoroughly dry. 

But I will never put any paint, filler or putty that has a “hot” solvent on top of acrylics, enamels or even raw plastics as it will probably eat its way into it. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Pouln said:

For that reason I try to stick to paints from one line of a specific manufacturer and i use their thinners too. 

Hello Pouln, that's what I do too  ;o)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Forge ahead Olivier. The road may seem endless but there is always a cave à vin en bord de route, somewhere ahead. Just to rest a bit of course😉

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hello my friends,

 

I am just discovering now your messages. Thanks to all of you for suggestions and encouragements!

Up to now, I never met such cracks despite the fact that I used several brands for my builds (Tamiya, Mr Hobby, Alclad etc.)

I agree with Jochen, it is very difficult to precise what we should hear by "enamel based", "lacquer based" etc. 

We are now chemist.

Ghost69 suggests to avoid mixing brands, but what else have I done, following Barbatos Rex, thinning Tamiya acrylics with Mr Color LT? I don't think many modelers use exclusively 1 brand, and I am not sure there is a real chemical difference between a Tamiya Surfacer and a Mr Hobby Surfacer... On the other hand, he is right about my body painting strategy. I should have first brought all necessary corrections before beginning to apply paint. And I would do things differently if I had to redo this build (don't count on me 😂!!)

Anyway, the good new is that finally, my problems seem to be fixed now.

It is quite a long time since I wrote my last post in this thread, but even if I was going on with the Honda build (more simple despite the many detail sets used), I have never been setting my Mustang aside.

Here is below a little update. As you will see, the road is still long, but I don't despair:

 

1) I removed completely the "Surface" products and took care to what I could use to add material when necessary. It appeared that the Tamiya LC Putty was stable applying coats of Tamiya paint on it.

 

spacer.png

 

2) In addition to the cracks problems, I had to "repair" this logo, awfully damaged by too many coats of paint:

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

This graft integration was not simple, but the result is quite good and much much better:

 

spacer.png

 

N.B: I found that Gravity Colors has the Wimbledon White in its range. If I had known, I would have used it, as I appreciate a lot their Surface primers, paints and Clears. I didn't know this brand when I began this build and definitely, here too, if I had to redo it, I would use it widely. As says Poul, I gained experience...

 

Cheers, O           spacer.png

 

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Olivier,  such good news, as you return to the "model extraordinaire".  You seem to have found the balance between the "old" methods and the now new ones. 

As a result of your trials and tribulations in the paint/surfacer department, I have learned a lot.

The foremost is I shall no longer use any filler except PVA White glue and only paint with paint for children's craft projects. This way I shall avoid all  problems and have a model to show off in my models cave * .  Wellllll,  as I have all those paint bottles on my shelves I suppose I should be "frugal" (OK Cheep) and use them up first. 

Modeling can be such a complex business, eh?                               *

                                                                                                        spacer.png

à plus

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Hello my friends,

 

These last days, as I got Gravity products and especially the Ford WW GC-1139, I decided to make a trial on a sample (rear wing), using nearly exclusively Gravity products (Surface Primer, paint, Gloss Clear, compounds and polishing wheels) to see what result I get and to compare it with my own WW. I decided to follow strictly the Gravity instructions of the great video that you can find in the section "How to...":

 

https://gravity-colors.com/how-to/#1626891071388-228e93f8-a5d4

 

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

Cheers, O                        spacer.png

  • Like 9
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, JeroenS said:

I rather like your own white mix... 

Dear Jeroen,

It’s true that the Gravity WW is a bit grey (less though than what the last pic suggests, look at the previous pics in my last post).

I could finally go on with my own WW, following your suggestion…

 

Cheers, O

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Yeesh!!! I really hate to see this one stall out. Looks like you've had your problems with this but I'm looking forward to the recovery efforts friend.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, mustang1989 said:

Looks like you've had your problems with this but I'm looking forward to the recovery efforts friend.

Many problems with this build, indeed, my friend, but I promise you I will not abandon it!

 

Cheers, O

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...