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Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car


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21 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Hi again,

 

One more time (it is at least the 4th time), I redo the full putty/ sanding/ painting job on the left front wing. This time, I will post every step. Maybe doing that will bring good luck...

 

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+++

 

 

In 1/1th scale car "modelling" (repair) one may run into that kind of problem when in a hurry and using solvent based filler (or filler-primer).

 

The painter starts to sand down the filler (applied over a pulled out dent and filed but still rough metal) before all the solvent has evaporated, slapps on paint, everything looks great when handing the car over to the customer. A week later the remaining solvent has evaporated and the paint has "fallen down" leaving the skin of an orange and an unhappy customer. Subsequent attempts to polish it will fail ... and the painter will be reluctant to redo the entire job.

 

What happened here? Who knows? We would have to reread the thread to see what brand/type of filler and paint were used in that area.

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Thanks Jochen for your contribution. For now, I don't know if the problem came from the putty or from the paint. What I can say is that I used several kinds of putties as I mentioned above (Mr Surfacer 1200, Tamiya Surface Primer, Tamiya LC Putty and even CA), while the painting job was always done using my WW mix and 96° alcohol.

For this new trial (hopefully successful this time!), I used another putty, The Vallejo one, and I left it set a long time (more than 15 h) before beginning the sanding job:

 

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Maybe the problem occurred because of a too thick coat of paint (the Tamiya acrylic thinned with alcohol gives however a very fine grain) to cover the putty. The surface being not flat in this area, a kind of "drop" would appear lately. This is just an assumption but I will rather apply 2 thin coats of WW for the next painting step to come...

 

Cheers, O

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   Oliver

I am confident you will find a solution to the diable spot.  I am not sure I would be so calm and collected, while fixing it.

 

So, we do not have..

                                         spacer.png                               

:laugh:

Reste bien mon ami

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Hello to all,

 

A little update, with the correction of Chrome trim fins:

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Cheers, O

 

P.S: thanks a lot Steve for your confidence and your funny message!

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Evening chaps,

 

Despite that my hood will be remained closed, I want to represent not too badly the bottom areas that will be slightly visible if the model is seen form below. That is why I studied the below pics:

 

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Close-up of the circled area:

 

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In parallel, I go on with the left front wing sanding and painting job:

 

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That's all for today...

 

Cheers, O

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6 minutes ago, Prop Duster said:

Oliver. The wonder of  the close up picture, and the agony of it too😉

 

 

I could add: "chronic dissatisfaction during a quest for perfection: To free youself from suffering, you must therefore free yourself from desire !"

Easier said than done!

And I know what I am talking about, I am made of the same wood !

 

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Hello to all,

 

Again at the bench to get the best possible result on my left front wing:

 

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I have now to wait the WSP setting (not before tomorrow morning to be sure)...

In the meantime, a little focus on the front lights: if AMT provides 2 clear parts (without Chrome frame) for the main ones, nothing in the box for the turn signals!

 

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So I will have to scratchbuild them...

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On 22/07/2021 at 10:27, Urshimato said:

Hello.

 I would like to recommend a YouTube channel to you and whom ever else may be interested. He has done extensive testing of many paint brands. One of his videos is dedicated to chrome paint sprayed over a variety of base colours. He has done all the hard work for us, his channel name is Barbatos Rex and is well worth a look

Dear Urshimato,

I have been watching the Barbatos Rex videos on YT about the Chrome and Black Chrome  Alclad, and also on the Molotow LC. He is impressed by the results he may get with both products, as I am myself.

In this thread, much above, I made comparisons between several Chrome products and my conclusion was that the classic Alclad applied on a good Gloss Black base was probably still the best, even if in some particular conditions, the Molotow could be better, especially on small surfaces and applied with a paintbrush in thick amounts.

In fact, reading your post, I expected a new and even better option than the ones I myself tried, but unless I missed something (maybe another video), it is just a confirmation about ever known products for me.

On the other hand, I found another video from another author with another product (closer from the Molotow LC one) that seems to also give easily a nice mirror effect, but I don’t succeed to find it back now. If I do, I will edit…

 

Thanks anyway,

Olivier 

 

Edit later: I suscribed to the barbatos Rex channel, regretting that he is not french (my english is just average) and saw another video dedicated to the Spaz Stix Chrome products and understand that maybe you thought about the latter (you could have precised as Barbatos Rex makes many videos). Only for these Spaz Stix, there are 2 videos, one using cans, and one using bottles for airbrush use:

 

 

 

I have never used these Spaz Stix products (not known on my usual modeler's providers but available on ebay) but they seem to be interesting (especially the cans version, that give a durable resistant to masking nice Chrome). Have any of you experience them?

If so, thank you for sharing your experience...

 

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Hi guys,

 

This morning, I was strongly determined to put an end to the left front wing, but...

 

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Ok, the defect is much less visible (for now) the the previous one, but it is not though the invisible surface I am willing to get...

Now, what should I do? Just go on again with a sanding job step (from 400 grit to 3000)?

Or airbrush a thin coat of WSP (thinned with cellulo thinner) in order to fill the little defect, meaning having to wait again several hours before the sanding/ painting job?

I choose the latter option:

 

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And a few hours later:

 

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Cheers, O

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Hi again,

 

I am happy to inform you that I could finally get an acceptable result on my left front wing (phew!!) and that my hood is now glued in place:

 

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Cheers, O

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57 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Hi again,

 

I am happy to inform you that I could finally get an acceptable result on my left front wing (phew!!) and that my hood is now glued in place:

 

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Cheers, O

Olivier, Sorry to hear of all the extra work you have had to go through. I'm sure the results will be well worth the effort!

In the limited instances that I have  used Vallejo putty, I have observed the it was difficult to get a finely feathered edge when sanding it down. Waiting 4-5 days before sanding was a little bit helpful. Also, multiple coats of primer helped in getting a smooth transition.

Have you tried using all the grades  (2400-12000) of micro mesh polishing cloths and then the compounds to help smooth some of the "orange peel" texture?

The smooth paint texture will compliment the effort you have put in to get the realistic chrome appearance.

I do enjoy following your progress -Les

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On 7/25/2021 at 11:25 AM, Totally Mad Olivier said:

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Olivier

                  spacer.png  C'est magnifique!   Bien fait.  And it looks good too.:laugh:

 

On 7/25/2021 at 11:25 AM, Totally Mad Olivier said:

 

 

 Treble Posts???? :punch:

 

 

Edited by Prop Duster
treble post
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Hello to all,

 

Maybe you think I didn't do anything these last days, since my last post of Sunday evening, showing a top view with doors and windshield in place (dry fit).

But I owe you the truth (my philosophy of sharing has always been to also share hassles). I was not totally satisfied by the result I got after buffing hood and front wings, and the devil spot was still present...

 

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Of course, I will show the result after the buffing job (that should be done this afternoon). Then we will see if the defect is acceptable or not. If it is not, I stop modeling! (I'm kidding...)

 

Cheers, O

 

Edit end of afternoon :

as we could expect, pity, the buffing job did not allow to fix the « diable spot » problem.

I still spent at least 1h30 struggling against the latter, with my sanding tools, and the result, even if much better, is not yet satisfying. I am strongly determined not to let go with this incredible problem.

Furthermore, I got today modeling products from Passion 132 including the MRP Super Clear Coat  suggested above by someone of you (sorry, I don’t recall).

I will do trials with this 2 components Gloss coat and if the results are better than with my previous Gloss varnishes, I will use this one.

 

Edit even a bit later: the "diable spot" is now nearly invisible and I just apply the Mr Paint Gloss coat. No time to post pics now, but I think I found the fine Gloss coat I was dreaming about... 

 

More soon (tomorrow)

 

Cheers, O

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Morning chaps,

 

I was rather optimistic when I left you yesterday evening, thinking the war was won:

 

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It looks like there is a little animal living under this f... area, who begins to move as soon as I am gone...

 

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When I see the result I may get using in combination this Clear Coat, the Micromesh and the Compounds, I decide to see the glass half full. 

 

More soon in the following battle...

 

Cheers, O

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On 29/07/2021 at 09:07, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Morning chaps,

 

I was rather optimistic when I left you yesterday evening, thinking the war was won: +++

It looks like there is a little animal living under this f... area, who begins to move as soon as I am gone...

+++

More soon in the following battle...

 

Cheers, O

Maybe ... before continuing the battle it could pay off to return "to the drawing board" (to the lab) and make a test with several fillers and paints (and curing times) and see which combinations do work and which lead to living animals under the paint.

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On 30/07/2021 at 12:00, Jochen Barett said:

Maybe ... before continuing the battle it could pay off to return "to the drawing board" (to the lab) and make a test with several fillers and paints (and curing times) and see which combinations do work and which lead to living animals under the paint.

I fully agree with you Jochen, and Steve (Prop Duster) also made interesting suggestions (by PM) to win the battle.

I am in fact nearly sure the Mr Surfacer 1000 used first is responsible. We know this kind of putty shrinks quite a lot with setting.

Maybe my Mr Surfacer is a bit out of date (a test will indeed be useful to confirm or not), but maybe it is just that I didn't wait enough time and applied coats of paint on it while it was still subject to shrinkage. If a 1- 1,5 mm coat (quite thick) of such a material is applied, it is probably necessary to wait at least 3 or 4 days before doing the following steps...

Honestly, the other options of putty used (Tamiya LC Putty, CA) are not subject to such a shrinkage.

That is why yesterday evening, I tried to remove completely the Mr Surfacer applied first (maybe there is still a little bit at the bottom) and I applied in its place LC CA that was cured immediately.

The result I get after a first sanding job (yesterday evening) and a thin paint coat applied this morning is encouraging, as I just come-back home and the surface is nearly OK.  

Now I will show the result only when it will be acceptable (hopefully soon).

 

Cheers, thanks for your contributions! 

 

Olivier 

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Hello to all,

 

On 30/07/2021 at 13:09, Totally Mad Olivier said:

The result I get after a first sanding job (yesterday evening) and a thin paint coat applied this morning is encouraging, as I just come-back home and the surface is nearly OK.  

Unlike what I thought writing these words, the result had to still be not good enough in the spot area. Why?

Just because I had not dug enough and removed completely the Mr Surfacer. 

Now I think (I become very careful) it's done.

Another aspect is the choice of the Gloss Coat. I also had some problems with the MRP that first seemed to me so great.

It tends to react with the underlying coat of acrylic paint thinned with alcohol, giving by places a wrinkled appearance.

Briefly, I finally came back to my first loves, namely the Alclad Klear Kote Gloss, that, more is more simple to use (ready to use, while the MRP requires to mix in 1:1 the 2 components*). 

The most important to get a nice final aspect remains the preparation of supports, anyway...

So, I have applied 40 mn ago a medium coat of KKG. If I refer to the Alclad instructions, I should be able to begin the buffing job within 20 mn, but carefully, I won't do it until tomorrow...

 

Cheers, O

 

* you also must clean quickly the paintbrush used to mix the 2 components, because after, it will become very difficult...

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Hi guys,

 

Happily, this time, as I expected yesterday, no more animal under my left front wing!

More, the pics below confirm (if necessary) that the Alclad Klear Kote is a very good choice to get a nice shiny (if not mirror) effect:

 

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So the battle is won, but each medal has its reverse, and namely, despite the protections, some adjacent areas were more or less affected by the battle (collateral effects)...

The corrections of these collateral effects will be my next challenge. But for 2 days, I am far from my bench.

 

Cheers, O

 

 

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Hello to all,

 

I am back home, a bit earlier than planned (due to the rainy day).

I must say that before leaving my bench, I had done a new necessary correction on the left front wing.

Indeed, it was not visible on the previous pics, but the surface needed such a correction after the hard sanding job done to fix the diable spot problem. I also had little defects on the hood (little scratches, areas where the Klear Kote had maybe been a bit removed).

And so, just before leaving, I have applied a new (and last, hopefully) coat of WW and Alclad Klear Kote.

So, the varnish could set while I was not here, and I could redo the buffing job to get the result below:

 

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As I was doing this buffing job again, I thought that I could share the little experience I now have and give the recipe I used to get such a result.

Probably, for most of you, a recipe is not necessary, but I will do as if it was, because it is by sharing our own experiences that we may all improve our skills.

So, first of all, let's recall that you can' t pretend getting a nice result if the coat of paint is ever too thick, with a grainy aspect or if some defects are present (such my devil spot...). For my part, I prefer to thin my Tamiya acrylic paint with 95° (or more) alcohol rather than with the X-20A thinner. Thinning with alcohol allows to get a very flat surface without grain (I learnt that from JM Villalba).

Then you have to apply the Gloss Coat. As I said above, I get nice results with the Alclad Klear Kote, and so, no need to change. This varnish is sprayed at 18 psi as recommended by Alclad. The coat must not be too thin to avoid removing it with the long finishing and buffing job to come. Many thin passages are spayed until you get this medium coat. You must not worry about the aspect you get then, it is definitely not good at all, whether it is when just applied or after complete drying.

After a full setting (about 12 h), you have first to begin using the 3000 grit Tamiya sponge, to get a flat surface and remove the grains the Klear Kote left.

This delicate sanding job must avoid removing too much varnish, just enough to get a flat surface.

Then comes the time to use the Micromesh: first 3600, then 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12000. I recommend to use them wet to avoid scratches on the surface. More, this will lenghten your Micromesh life.

And only then begins the buffing job with the Compounds, first Coarse, then Fine and then Finish. As I said above, I prefer to first apply them (in small amounts) with the finger, using only the cloths to buff. I also use a great (and if possible new) microfiber cloth.

Very probably you will need to come-back carefully to the Micromesh to remove little scratches. Do that carefully and only where necessary, and redo the buffing job as well, until you get the expected result: no grain and no scratches (easier to say than to do) and the shiny (and hopefully mirror) effect.

All this sequence requires patience and time.

Nothing will replace experience and practice, but if this recipe may help other modelers (especially beginners), I will be happy.

 

Of course, I don't pretend the result I got is perfect, and I also don't pretend it is the only way to get a nice shiny surface.

I just give you my recipe using the Alclad Klear Kote. Maybe the sequence would be a bit different with another Gloss Coat.

 

Now, as I ever said above, some more or less adjacent areas were affected by the "battle" despite the protections. It is the case for the "Official" mention left side, for the logo 289 but also (much more complex) for the left front wheel, that is now involuntarily weathered, as if the car had driven on a sandy road:

 

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It is one of the challenges the modeler has to face: going on little by little without damaging the previous treated areas…

 

Cheers, O

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Hello,

 

I had ordered to Passion 132 a few things, including the Alclad Klear Kote Gloss, mine being rather old (even if the latter allowed me to get the nice shiny surface shown above).

I was surprised to see several changes between the old one and the new:

 

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Furthermore, before doing corrections on the side of the left front wing (see the previous post), I first decided to improve the rear of the car (correction of little defects and use of my new method described just above). I will just show the result when it will be OK this time (probably tomorrow), but a precision: I will use the new Klear Kote, what should maybe lead me to modify a bit my recipe, the more fluid consistency giving hopefully a bit less grainy surface... Of course, I will follow the "new" directions and spray at 12-15 psi, as recommended by the manufacturer...

 

Cheers, O

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On 8/4/2021 at 11:21 AM, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Hello to all,

 

I am back home, a bit earlier than planned (due to the rainy day).

I must say that before leaving my bench, I had done a new necessary correction on the left front wing.

Indeed, it was not visible on the previous pics, but the surface needed such a correction after the hard sanding job done to fix the diable spot problem. I also had little defects on the hood (little scratches, areas where the Klear Kote had maybe been a bit removed).

And so, just before leaving, I have applied a new (and last, hopefully) coat of WW and Alclad Klear Kote.

So, the varnish could set while I was not here, and I could redo the buffing job to get the result below:

 

spacer.png

 

As I was doing this buffing job again, I thought that I could share the little experience I now have and give the recipe I used to get such a result.

Probably, for most of you, a recipe is not necessary, but I will do as if it was, because it is by sharing our own experiences that we may all improve our skills.

So, first of all, let's recall that you can' t pretend getting a nice result if the coat of paint is ever too thick, with a grainy aspect or if some defects are present (such my devil spot...). For my part, I prefer to thin my Tamiya acrylic paint with 95° (or more) alcohol rather than with the X-20A thinner. Thinning with alcohol allows to get a very flat surface without grain (I learnt that from JM Villalba).

Then you have to apply the Gloss Coat. As I said above, I get nice results with the Alclad Klear Kote, and so, no need to change. This varnish is sprayed at 18 psi as recommended by Alclad. The coat must not be too thin to avoid removing it with the long finishing and buffing job to come. Many thin passages are spayed until you get this medium coat. You must not worry about the aspect you get then, it is definitely not good at all, whether it is when just applied or after complete drying.

After a full setting (about 12 h), you have first to begin using the 3000 grit Tamiya sponge, to get a flat surface and remove the grains the Klear Kote left.

This delicate sanding job must avoid removing too much varnish, just enough to get a flat surface.

Then comes the time to use the Micromesh: first 3600, then 4000, 6000, 8000 and 12000. I recommend to use them wet to avoid scratches on the surface. More, this will lenghten your Micromesh life.

And only then begins the buffing job with the Compounds, first Coarse, then Fine and then Finish. As I said above, I prefer to first apply them (in small amounts) with the finger, using only the cloths to buff. I also use a great (and if possible new) microfiber cloth.

Very probably you will need to come-back carefully to the Micromesh to remove little scratches. Do that carefully and only where necessary, and redo the buffing job as well, until you get the expected result: no grain and no scratches (easier to say than to do) and the shiny (and hopefully mirror) effect.

All this sequence requires patience and time.

Nothing will replace experience and practice, but if this recipe may help other modelers (especially beginners), I will be happy.

 

Of course, I don't pretend the result I got is perfect, and I also don't pretend it is the only way to get a nice shiny surface.

I just give you my recipe using the Alclad Klear Kote. Maybe the sequence would be a bit different with another Gloss Coat.

 

Now, as I ever said above, some more or less adjacent areas were affected by the "battle" despite the protections. It is the case for the "Official" mention left side, for the logo 289 but also (much more complex) for the left front wheel, that is now involuntarily weathered, as if the car had driven on a sandy road:

 

spacer.png

 

 

It is one of the challenges the modeler has to face: going on little by little without damaging the previous treated areas…

 

Cheers, O

Cheers Olivier,

Nice progress on your finishes.

Based on personal experience, may I suggest that when progressing through the diminishing grades of micromesh alternate the direction of the sanding strokes. Going across the previous grain helps eliminate evidence of any deeper scratches that may have occurred. Of course, in some restricted spaces it may not be possible.

I enjoy seeing your updates.

Les

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18 hours ago, Lvp said:

Based on personal experience, may I suggest that when progressing through the diminishing grades of micromesh alternate the direction of the sanding strokes. Going across the previous grain helps eliminate evidence of any deeper scratches that may have occurred

Thanks Les for bringing this precision that I forgot. Like you, I usually alternate the direction of sanding with the Micromesh.

Glad to see you enjoy my updates...

Here is a new one: first to say that I had to rework a bit one more time my front hood and wings. Why? probably because more time was necessary before the finishing and buffing job. If you consider I had done the latter about 24 h after the Klear Kote coat, it means that at least 72 h and maybe even more are necessary for this step. Alclad should precise that in the directions (notice that nothing is mentioned about this necessary finishing/ buffing job).

As I applied yesterday evening the new Klear Kote on the trunk and rear wings, you will understand that, unlike what I said, the finishing/ sanding job won't be done today but much later, back from my holiday to come next Tuesday (about 12 days far from my bench), and this is all the more true that I feel the new Klear Kote has an even longer setting time than the "old" one.

Furthermore, I made a new merciless comparison to check the front:

 

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N.B: despite the use of Molotow LC in the front light holes, after applying the glasses, the result is not bright enough.

 

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Idea to get brighter front lights: I had applied Molotow LC in the AMT hollow but I can get a much better shiny effect using a round hollow, such my single use trays cups:

 

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A bit later:

 

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Notice that I removed the logo Chrome trim to shorten the lower support and so get a more faithful final result. Of course, it will not be possible to bring all the corrections that would be necessary on this front part of the car but I will do my best.

Anyway, as you can see, I will still have a lot of modeling job when I am back home...

 

Cheers, O

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Hi again,

 

Removing the Chrome trim, cut the lower arm to shorten it and re cement it, remove the whole paint and apply a new coat of Black Gloss were delicate jobs I just finished:

 

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I think I really deserve my nickname, I must be totally mad to redo one more time this stuff, but this Chrome trim with the Mustang logo is very important in term of style, and the merciless comparison above showed this rework was imho necessary...

 

Cheers, O

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