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Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car


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1) And the winner is (for now): Molotow LC + C1 powder buffing (the best compromise imho)!

If you want a Dark Chrome, the best result is got with the combination TS-14/ C1.

 

P5l0B2.jpg

 

The C1 powder is a disappointment for me: the 3 rd photo on the instructions below suggested an amazing light Chrome, exactly what I wanted, but I would be glad to know how this result could be got (I followed strictly imho the instructions and was very generous with the powder):

bFKVR4.jpg

 

P.S: maybe I found out the recipe by myself. As I wanted to send a message to C1 Models on the internet site, I saw that it is recommended to apply a "Metallic Blue" base coat to get a light Chrome. Pity, this was not precised in the instructions...

2UxaaU.png

 

Pity, the manufacturer doesn't give a precise reference for this Metallic Blue. It is very nice and shiny. Do you recognize what paint it is? Tamiya TS-19? TS-54? Candy Electric Blue ZP?

I sent a message to C1 Models and hope I will get the answer.

More soon...

 

2)

O0oiAp.jpg

 

 

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Now that I know a Blue base coat may allow to get a lighter Chrome, and before buying new products, I do trials with the paints I ever have. A first trial with the Tamiya Sky Blue X-14 (acrylic) was encouraging, with a nice and less Dark Chrome after buffing than with a Black or Gun Metal base coat. Though, as the result remains too dark, I do a new trial with the Hobby Color Bright H45 Light Blue (acrylic too). I have to wait the drying before buffing, I will show the result as soon as possible.

4bjXEK.jpg

 

Been thinking that I could also get a nice Metallic Blue by applying first a coat of Silver (fe Tamiya enamel X11) on which I would apply a Gloss Transparent Blue, I then prepared this new sample:

KwqJDr.jpg

 

I look forward to see what these new trials will show. One thing is sure: I prefer a mirror effect with a Chrome a bit too dark than a light Chrome with a not real mirror effect (Molotow LC)... That’s why I go on with my trials, hoping I will be rewarded...

 

P.S: a sentence has kept my attention in the C1 powder instructions posted above: "If polishing is unavoidable, remove surface contaminants using a detergent before applying powder".

Considering the major influence of a high sheen base coat before buffing with C1 to get a mirror effect, I thought that it would be interesting to test that option: getting a high sheen of the blue base coat (like we could get without polishing with the TS-14) by polishing (Alclad Micromesh, Tamiya Compounds) and then wash with detergent the part, before applying the powder... 

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Here is the result I could get with my last trials:

I chose to buff (despite the recommendations of the instructions) my samples with the Tamiya compounds, and then used dish soap (a bath in US tank with water) as detergent.

The C1 powder has worked on this polished and washed surface.

With both samples, I get a Chrome a bit lighter, very nice but still too dark. It doesn't seem really necessary to use a metallic base coat, the solution to get a lighter Chrome seems to be rather to have a lighter Blue base coat.

I am gonna try to lighten my H45, by mixing it with Gloss White...

a8j4PG.jpg

 

PR23Lb.jpg

 

dAfnhf.jpg

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I have got my second box, the opportunity to do a comparison between the different options, each one with advantages and drawbacks:

1) Molotow LC: the color is very good (9/10) but the brightness is really not convincing (4/10). 13/20

A8IEEJ.jpg

 

2) Pale Blue (my last sample) + C1: the color remains too dark (pity, the influence of the base coat color is low) (6/10) while the mirror effect is very good (8,5/10). 14,5/20

cCAX95.jpg

 

3) The AMT Chrome is great: color 10/10 and mirror effect 10/10, but the front bumper has a wrong shape (especially vertical appendixes), there are mould lines, sprues de-clumping marks and the pads are missing. 

F7qBAt.jpg

 

Conclusion: Up to now, I could not get (despite my efforts) the great AMT Chrome with neither the C1 powder, neither the Molotow LC. I don't know what to do anymore.

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Thanks a lot Roy for these suggestions. I didn't know Uschi had such powders in his catalog. As you seem to have this Chrome powder from Uschi, can you show me the Chrome you get with it? Before buying it, I would like to be sure I will get a lighter Chrome than with the C1...

And I am going to study with care the 2nd option too.

 

Cheers

 

Olivier

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Very kind, Roy! I accept, of course. In this case, I will leave for now this aspect and focus on other ones (and there are plenty!!)

Do you need me to recall you my adress? I suppose so, and I am gonna send you a PM for that.

 

Cheers

 

Olivier

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Not necessary I should have it, will send it today.

 

Update: have included a sample of the other two powders (iron / steel). 

 

30952467258_f08cf8ce14_k.jpg 

I must apologise for our international stamps. Could also have chosen a specimen depicting: 

 

- A cow; or

- A bicycle; or

- A typical Dutch house; or

- A tulip. 

 

Thought I'd pick the worst: 

 

43913857945_5e37e48951_k.jpg  

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2 hours ago, Roy vd M. said:

One thing is for sure, nobody can rightfully say you aren't ambitious. 

If nobody can say I am not ambitious, nobody can’t say you are slow and ineffective !

Thanks a lot and don’t worry about the stamps! :D

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I am very grateful to Roy for sending me these samples. I must though admit that I am a bit sceptical about these Chrome powders (I hope I am wrong with Uschi's one). They give a very nice finish if you want a dark Chrome but I am afraid none of them will give the right light Chrome as a plated one such the AMT.

I made a last trial (I said I'm a tough guy...) with 95% Gloss White and only 5% Light Blue. The result is a still a bit lighter Chrome (let's say 15/20 instead of 14,5 with the previous version) but it remains much darker than the AMT Chrome, the reference. The undercoat influences a bit the final result, but not so much in fact, that's the problem.

But we shall see with Uschi's one, maybe I will go up to 16/20... The minimum score for me to accept such a solution as a good compromise.

I hope this quest is not too boring for the reader, but I consider that the Chrome parts (bumpers, particularly) are a very important aspect of a vintage car like the Ford Mustang (much more than the engine fan, fe), one of the most obviously visible elements of the model once finished. 

Thanks for watching...

 

Olivier

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I have thought: why not try to apply the C1 powder over my styrene polished and varnished roof? Will it work?

Well, it worked and the result on this unpainted surface is... a quite good surprise! The hue is much lighter than all what I could get up to now, and there is a great mirror effect that the photo below doesn't fully render. I give a score of 15,5/20 (hue 6,5/10, sheen 9/10) to this result, but I am going to do a new trial with a small change, because I get here rather a kind of white metal look, without the special Chrome sheen. A subtle touch of transparent blue on the styrene should turn it to a more convincing Chrome after buffing with C1 I hope...

8CATDa.jpg

 

N.B: this photo is a bit misleading, not only for the mirror effect I get on the roof (as ever mentioned), but also on the other sample (95/5), whose hue seems to be very close from the AMT bumper, while it is really darker in fact (pity).

 

Edit: waiting for Roy's samples and for the results with the transparent blue undercoat, I am gonna try another approach: considering that the Molotow LC has the right hue (9/10) but not the right sheen (4/10), the idea is to apply a coat of Alclad Klear Kote Gloss and to polish and buff with compounds the latter after drying, in order to get the mirror effect that this product can't give by itself. I have begun following this new lead and I should be able to show the results tomorrow (the time for the Klear Kote I just applied to dry). The solution?

 

 

 

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All my trials (not over and waiting for Roy's samples) show imho that both C1 powder and Molotow LC are maybe not better options than the "classical" Alclad Chrome over a Gloss Black base coat. Here is a nice video on You Tube recalling that this great product, well used, remains a possible choice:

https://youtu.be/wIliEsLzAdo

But I am afraid none of these solutions can't pretend giving a similar to a plated Chrome result such the AMT, especially for a big scale model like this one (for my Chevy Bel Air at 1/25, I had used both Alclad and Bare Metal foil for chromes).

That's why I wonder if finally I won't use the AMT bumpers (of the 2nd set), trying to eliminate as discretely as possible the mould lines (badly placed) and sprue release marks, adding the pads and considering that the too wide vertical appendixes (only on the front bumper while the rear ones are OK) can be accepted as a compromise to keep the nice Chrome bumpers... The Molotow LC could in this case be used with the 1 mm pencil for the pads and the small areas where necessary the Chrome is missing. 

 

N.B: in the video suggested just above, as on other ones I could see on You Tube, the Alclad Clear used is the Aqua Gloss and not the Klear Kote. I don't have this Aqua Gloss, that seems to be a very good Clear varnish. I must however say I got very good results with the Klear Kote of the same maker, especially after buffing with compounds up to now.

 

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Hi Olivier

Just to add to the colour information....

Full size chrome plate is usually three separate platings. First, a copper flash is applied which acts as a primer. Then a nickel  coat, which gives the colour, and finally a chrome coat which gives a hard and shiny finish. There isn't much colour in the actual chrome, so you get an impression of depth through it to the nickel.

Jo

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Thanks Jo for this interesting info about the Chrome plating. On my side, I tried to find a pro plating service and I could find one not so far from me, at St Laurent du Var, but I suppose the cost will be expensive. However, I will contact them for an estimate.

I ever got today Roy's samples (the nederlands post offices are as fast as him ;) ) and I decided to organize a lineup between the many options to get a more or less convincing chrome. I applied on 4 spoons the TS-14 that is a great Gloss Black base. On 2 of them, I will apply a thin coat of Alclad Chrome, while on the 2 others, I will apply the C1 (sample 7) and the Uschi powders = sample 8. On the Alclad Chrome, I will apply a coat of Klear Kote (sample 5), while on the other, I will apply the Aqua Gloss (to order) = sample 6.

On 4 other spoons, I have applied the same Molotow LC. On these samples, different options of Clear will be tried:

- no Clear (sample 1)

- Klear Kote (sample 2)

- Aqua Gloss (sample 3)

- Marabu Clear varnish (sample 4)

 

fwCOzF.jpg

 

N.B: the Molotow LC is nice on rounded surfaces such back of spoons, especially a few minutes after spraying. But even like that, it is far from having the same mirror effect than the AMT bumper.

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Waiting for the Molotow LC and the Gloss Black base to dry,  I go on with my spoons, I am working on the option I exposed in the post# 213 above, using the AMT bumpers. The first step for this option is to remove with a lot of care the marks on the AMT bumpers. Here is how I proceeded for that delicate job:

oGG6Kp.jpg

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A first result of my spoons trials including the Uschi powder (thanks again Roy):

qPwogc.jpg

 

1) Molotow LC alone (no Clear yet applied): no surprise, the Molotow is by far the best for the Chrome hue (10/10), but the worse for the sheen (4/10). That's why it will be interesting to see the result after applying several Clear varnishes and buffing the latter. 14/20 for now.

2) Alclad Chrome: among the 3 other samples, the Alclad applied at 15 psi (thin coat) is the lightest, but it is ever too dark (hue 7/10) while the sheen is quite good but with a grain effet (6,5/10). 13,5/20 for now.

3) C1 powder: the darkest Chrome (hue 4/10) of this selection, while the sheen is very good (8,5/10). 12,5/20.

4) Uschi Chrome powder: the hue is lighter and so better than the C1, but still too dark (6/10), while the sheen is really great (10/10). 16/20. Very simple to use (no clear required). No problem with fingerprints, as with the C1 powder. A very good product, definitely, that I am gonna order all now. Look at this comparison with the Chrome plated door handle of my car:

OfZSPc.jpg

 

Does this mean that I will use the Uschi Chrome? Not yet sure, I have first to see what score I will get after the Clear coats on the Molotow LC. If I can improve the sheen of the latter, this option, even if requiring more steps, could be my choice. Without forgetting the other option, keeping the AMT Chrome plated bumpers, on which I work at the same time (my post#216 just above)... 

What I ever know from this last trial: 

I won't use neither Alclad Chrome, neither the C1 powder for my bumpers.

It will be also very interesting to try to get a lighter Chrome with the Uschi powder, by applying a lighter undercoat (Blue, fe), what I will do very soon...

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A nice-looking car but that´s all . A  Falcon  in disguise with an old-fashioned technique even at that time . Sorry I have to say that ,dear Olivier ,but the Mustang always was a life-style product for young folks but never a milestone regarding technical development imho . It´s like a beautiful woman with an IQ of 80 .

I hope you are not mad about me now , dear Olivier because I still like you and your personality very much !

All the best ! Your friend Hannes

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No problem Hannes, you are probably right saying it is not a milestone from a technical point of view, but I am personally more sensitive to a beautiful design than to purely technical aspects. And I admit I love (and I am not alone) the design of that Pony car, that never gets old imho. I would love to own one, convertible preferably, like Bernard. This car was also probably the first to offer the possibility to get a « made to measure » car, with several engines and many options available. So a secretary could get a quite cheap very nice car, with the V6 engine, but I assure you that with the 289 ci V8 and by adding options, you could get a great model with high performances. From this marketing point of view, we may say that this car was a milestone. The idea to create a special image with the Mustang horse instead of the Ford logo was also a good idea from the same marketing point of view. That’s why I think this car is important in the automotive history. Let’s recall finally that, from 1964 up to today, the Ford Mustang is the most popular and the most produced sport car in the world, thanks to the offer of driving pleasure and sensations for a quite cheap price, compared to European productions (Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, BMW... )

                                                                 ---------------------------

Now return to my trials, with something very interesting imho:

0f168J.jpg

 

I was probably a bit fast eliminating the Alclad from the selection this morning. Look at the nice Chrome I get with it when I buff it with the Uschi powder (after hours drying). Hue: 8,5/10 Sheen: 8,5/10  17/20, my best result for now. The powder has lightened the hue of my Alclad spoon and in the same time improved the sheen (there was a kind of small grain effect on the Alclad sample of the photo in my post#217, that has vanished).

I even wonder if I don’t prefer this Chrome aspect than the AMT plated one, a bit too light  and looking more plastic.

 

Cheers

 

Olivier

 

 

 

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I take a little time to present to you the Revell-Monogram 1/24 kit of the Indy 500 Pace Car '64 Mustang that I just got yesterday. It is thanks to Roy that I could know the existence of such a kit. Of course, it is not recent, but much more than the AMT and it looks much better. If I had known before such a kit did exist, I would certainly not have bought the AMT one, that is, I recall, a Coupe version, requiring many changes to convert it in a convincing Convertible. But I console myself by considering I prefer a bigger scale (1/16) to a smaller one (1/24) for this car that I love ❤️ (I think now you know ;)). Still one word: I have bought on ebay a "not all new" kit, and, if you decide to order and build it, I recommend you to buy a "new one", you will see why below (decal sheet, damaged windshield):

CrZ7va.jpg

GqNAFE.jpgm0J9HK.jpg5TwuTV.jpgPFezhJ.jpgXWuyUj.jpg6PbYDZ.jpgQ68p9B.jpg

 

Hope this will be of interest for some of you...

 

Olivier

 

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Olivier in my opinion the full mirror effect is not even desirable. I'll briefly explain (as I don't have much time right now). 

 

Just as with scale colouring (=it's more realistic to use a slightly lighter colour in scale than the original colour), the 'mirror look' should in my opinion be reduced on scale, to provide a more realistic view. 

 

For example, if I wanted to model a brand new shiny car in scale 1/16, I would first paint it (multiple layers), then varnish it (multiple layers), then sand it and polish it to a high gloss. Most modellers would stop there, but I would then use a very fine grid sand paper (for example 10,000) to slightly dull the paint job. In my opinion, the 1/24 cars that are just as sparkling as the 1/1 cars look very unrealistic -rather like toys. Unfortunately I cannot right now find a website that explains all this from a scientific (physics) point of view. 

 

Here a model I made that shows the effect I'm after:

 

29233862162_99a04bcab1_b.jpg 

 

29264635971_9b5523bbb1_b.jpg 

 

 

The same applies, again in my opinion, to chrome. The shine of chrome should be reduced to achieve a realistic scale effect. 

 

Some examples (not mine): 

 

Fully shiny:

 

DSC01050.JPG 

 

BILD0332.jpg 

 

 

Slightly dulled:

attachment.php?attachmentid=18160&d=1332 

 

20130823_202424.jpg 

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Roy it is a very interesting point of view. I must say I never heard about this before, as for the Chromes as for the body color. If I refer to such a point of view, my last choice would be very good, what would help me out...

Juan Manuel, who follows this thread, told me too that he didn't like so much the AMT Chrome (that I used to consider as a reference, because it matches perfectly with the 1/1 Chrome).

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All these trials I have done have learnt me a lot. Your contributions too. Before beginning this thread, I didn't know the Molotow LC (thanks Ron, post# 50), and no more the Chrome powders (thanks Marco and Roy), especially the Uschi one. I have often changed my mind about such or such option, and you will see below that I did so up to the last moment...

Roy, in his post# 223 above, has brought an interesting point of view, reinforced by Juan Manuel's one, and by my own feeling. Well, personally, I go on thinking the bumpers should have a very good sheen despite the scale, but I have decided:

1) that I won't use the AMT bumpers, that look a bit "toy", without forgetting the other inconvenients ever mentioned above (seems lines etc...)

2) that the 2 best solutions (the finalists) are:

- the Chrome Alclad applied on a Gloss Black base coat (TS-14 is great) on which the Uschi powder is buffed. This option gives a very nice result, with a very good sheen, but it remains a bit too dark imho.

- the Molotow LC, because of its perfect match with the light Chrome we can see on the real car. I learnt small and small how to use this product. The results you get with the latter depend a lot of the way you spray it. It must be used like a paint can, high pressure and especially, high paint flow. You should not apply a second layer, only one but high flow, exactly as with the Tamiya TS cans, fe. Its high covering power does the rest...

Doing so, you will get an acceptable sheen, that you may try to improve by using the Uschi powder (I had not enough powder to try this option for now but I will) on it and/or by applying a coat of Clear varnish (to buff with the Tamiya compounds).

 

And so the surprising winner is (unless I change my mind again!): Molotow LC.

I have not yet decided the option Clear or not (I would rather say yes for now) and I look forward to get the Uschi powder I ordered (expensive shipping, 13€!) to try buffing the Molotow LC. If it works as well as on the Alclad, I could get a fine result without needing any Clear, what I would prefer...

 

Thanks for watching, encouraging and taking an active part to this thread

 

Cheers

 

Olivier

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