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Olivier de St Raph

Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car

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On 06/01/2019 at 07:59, Olivier de St Raph said:

Here is approximately how I intend to proceed a priori:

1) remove the wrong details (armrest, handles) on the 2nd kit inner door

2) cut the vinyl panel (extended backward) of the 2nd kit and give it a slight relief

3) integrate this vinyl panel on the first inner door, after having grinded the details in relief of the latter

 

I have begun the inner door job, but with a change / the planned procedure:

QWR7zE.jpg

 

V5M9qa.jpg

 

N.B: 1)sorry, my photos were done in different conditions, not very nice...

2) I have just got today the Anycubic Photon resin 3D printer:

jYryXl.jpg

 

 

The latter should be the good one for modeling (I hope so!) after casting errors. I have not yet begun to use it, as I am waiting to get the necessary products to clean the resin after printing (Monocure Resinaway). More, the USB key provides a slicing software that only works with Windows. I have to find a Mac version... But the leveling is done, much more accurate imho than with the Monoprice and easy following the You Tube Anycubic tuto:

https://youtu.be/bIMwjmVl3Ho 

 

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I look forward to seeing the inlet slots printed by the new printer.

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Posted (edited)

Me too Daniel but I will be very careful and will do trials when I am sure I have all the necessary material and a good comprehension of the procedure, to avoid errors, even if I suppose there will be print failures first anyway...

 

Edit 10/01 at 13:00 am: the Anaycubic support was not long to answer me (about 12 hours after my email request) and to send me the slicing software for mac. I have just downloaded it.

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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I have got today the Resinaway. I should be able to do my first resin printing this week-end, helped by this very good tuto on a quite similar to the Anycubic resin printer, the Creality LD-001:

 

Other interesting tutos (in english):

https://youtu.be/1tnDItw0ZLc

https://youtu.be/SEsioci3MIk

 

 

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That's it! I made my first print trial with the Anycubic. For a resin printer, you must create supports before slicing. I also had to choose settings. I took inspiration on one of the tutos mentioned above , just changing the layer thickness from 0,05 (video) to 0,02 mm, in order to get better details:

8svcah.png

 

Then, after slicing, the file is sent on the USB key provided.

It took about 1h50 to get the printed inlet slot.

The Anycubic provided resin was transparent green, what is not the best way to check if the print is OK (I will probably order a White resin from the same brand very soon).

The object was put in one of my small US tanks filled with Resinaway for a few minutes, then I cleant it with water and liquid soap, and then I removed the supports arms. And now I am gonna put it under the UV lamps for a few minutes :

Fh4o8g.jpg

 

Ok, the procedure is a bit messy and requires to wear a mask, gloves, and to use hand towels, but for modelers like us, used to such messy and smelly works, nothing very terrible.

Well, before painting, here is what I get:

rE1RNt.jpg

 

P.S: I have asked the Anycubic support team if they could suggest the best settings for such a difficult printing, I hope I will get help from them to improve this first encouraging result...

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Looking good so far, mate. You seem to be " getting to grips" with the tech quite quickly, now, so well done.:clap2:

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6 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

I have asked the Anycubic support team if they could suggest the best settings for such a difficult printing, I hope I will get help from them to improve this first encouraging result

 

I have ever got an answer from Larry, of the Anycubic team (great and fast team, definitely!). He has sent me a sliced file for our inlet slots, that weighs 42,7 Mo, when mine, printed last night, was only 21,2 Mo. Does it mean his one will be much better? I have begun the printing (very slow, logically) and I look forward to see the result.

I have asked Larry the settings he used for this sliced file, explaining I don't mind the print to be long, only the accuracy and quality of surface matters for me...

More soon...

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Glad you got it working now, so far the FDM version looks better imo. Will be interesting to see the result once you have had a few more tries with different settings.

 

Is it problematic because it is so thin? Maybe the thicker one is easier to print.

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While I was about to post the photo below, after sanding (much more easy than FDM) and painting, I found out Daniel's comment just above. I agree to say that his best FDM printing is better than the resin one below (my first one), especially because of a problem of surface state. But I think this small problem will be solved - maybe with Larry's file, currently being printed (53% now) - and that the Anycubic (or any other resin printer) will be the best option to get the best inlet slots. No need to cheat here to get the good slots widths, and quite simple settings, compared with the very complex Cura ones...

Anyway, I want to thank one more time and warmly Daniel for his great Fusion file of these slots! I hope I will be able to design like him soon (always the time missing to learn, pity...)

 

RofBfP.jpg

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Waooh! Thanks Roy, the 2nd video shows precisely the standard seats on the 1 st generation Mustang like the Indy 500 (while the first is a later version, with beads oriented perpendicularly and a later steering wheel). If you could you take measures on these seats, you would bring me a precious help! Up to now, and despite a strong will and many paths, I couldn't get them. I recall what I need:

 

Photo 1:

BEe3TI.png

 

Photo 2:

32y7RM.png

 

Photo 3: 

0cg5mL.jpg

 

Olivier

 

P.S: I was very disappointed, Larry's file did not match at all with the inlet slots (maybe did he confuse with another object). I am though gonna do new trials with different settings myself.

 

 

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For the 2nd trial, I have tried to determine the best settings by a better comprehension of each one, and I also moved the object, oriented now vertically instead of inclined:

SqkfuF.png

 

Result and conclusions at the end of the morning... I am reasonably optimist (it is my nature, anyway...)

Here is an abstract of the Anycubic user manual, dedicated to the parameters, precisely:

P392dU.jpg

 

I appreciate that such a document is provided, not only on a USB key.

I must also say that I am impressed by the general quality of this machine (the most important parts are in anodized aluminium), for a very good quality/ price (less than 400€, I recall). I recommend!

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I go on working on several aspects of my build. Waiting for the new print of the inlet slots, here are the front seat back measures:

aGZdBy.jpg

 

I have asked Bernard to check the total width between the right and left flanges, because I am not sure such wide seats would come in my current interior:

co2qRp.jpg

 

P.S: I really hope Roy will be able to check the measures above. If I could get them, also get the confirmation of the width between flanges and more get a fine result with my new print of the slots, this Sunday would represent a big step forward for my build...

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Unfortunately that is not possible as I was there for only one day (hadn’t brought measuring tools anyway). I’m sure eventually someone will get you those dimensions though.

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Ok Roy, I understand very well of course. It's a pity, though. If you knew all what I did to get these measures... I don't understand that no one, up to now, among the ones who easily could have done that little work, didn't do it. Your video had raised a new hope. I wish I will finally get them soon. Waiting for them, I go on working on other aspects (there are many...) of this build...

 

Olivier

 

P.S: following the Murphy's law, my last printing trial just ended when I read your post, and it's a total failure, I don't know why. The thin rods are totally missing on this print... 😫

I am gonna try an horizontal position for my model, like we did with the FDM printers.

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5 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

P.S: I was very disappointed, Larry's file did not match at all with the inlet slots (maybe did he confuse with another object). I am though gonna do new trials with different settings myself.

Could you explain more what was wrong with it?

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Just now, dbostream said:

Could you explain more what was wrong with it?

Simple: the object had nothing to see with our inlet slots. I couldn't know it until I had printed it as Larry sent me the ever sliced file... 

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11 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

Simple: the object had nothing to see with our inlet slots. I couldn't know it until I had printed it as Larry sent me the ever sliced file... 

Strange, did you ask him if he sent you the wrong file?

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Not yet, as we are on Sunday, but of course I will... 

I had asked him several questions before realizing that there was a big problem with his file, to which he has not yet replied, so I considered unuseful to go on with this one. I hope I will get complete answers tomorrow from him...

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1 hour ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

If you knew all what I did to get these measures...

Had I known what exact dimensions you still needed I would have brought my ruler or other measuring tool and I would have asked to take dimensions. I know you understand I follow many car builds on multiple forums and wherever I feel I can or could help I'll do so. 

 

I understand very well how difficult it can be to get the dimensions. You'll remember we had shared problems on that when researching the Fiat 806. Centro Storico proved less than willing to have us research their files. They more than likely hold blueprints of the gearbox and better photographs of the car. There are however reasons for keeping those files from our research team, and some might have something to do that we, modellers, are not so important to them. We are not there to make (large) donations to the museum, or help them in any other way. Trying to convince them that our research would be 100% shared and they could benefit from that, was to no avail. 

 

So to my eye there two kinds of people in this world: those who are willing to share knowhow and reference material if they were in a position to do so and if they could; and those who don't. I know that most people have too little time to help us modellers so we must cherish those who do. 

 

I had mainly positive experiences, I must say. When I asked the curator of RAF museum if I could take close-up pictures of their (single survivor) Heinkel 111 Luftwaffe bomber, he agreed and I flew over. When I asked Louwman museum to be allowed to make a walkaround of their Bugatti 50T for Crazycrank, permission was swiftly granted; under reasonable conditions of confidentiality. They even let me climb all the way to the back of the car to take some pictures of the gas tank. So courteous! 

 

Now with my Delage I have people helping me... it helps of course that I'm very serious about the project but still... they don't have to do that. Of course I owe Revs Institute... the way they received and welcomed me, trustingly, in their museum is mindblowing and I still think of it often. But not only that, they have also provided me with restoration pictures and additional dimensions of the car. Of course they will receive the drawing I am making, which is good for their files, but I am an ever so grateful man and I will consider myself always indebted to them. In case I find out something about the car or get access to rare reference material I will always inform them (in those cases where I can). 

 

Also Mr Daniel Cabart, Mr Sebastian Faurès, Mr Christope Pund, Mr Peter Giddings and others, have provided opportunities and a wealth of information that I can use. 

 

But of course there are the others. I remember when I was taking pictures at the Delage stand at Retromobile 2017, to which I was more than kindly invited by Daniel Cabart who managed that stand. There was a guy who, after one hour and a half of my photographing, asked me if I had taken enough pictures already. Mind you, I was always at the 'private' side of the stand, so I wasn't blocking anyone's view. Yes perhaps sometimes those of the 20-year old girls who had also been invited along with a 45-year old gentleman with strange coloured pants, those girls sipping champagne while using their mobile phones all the time, instead of admiring the 90 year old jewel of a car. Or those invitees who couldn't keep themselves from touching the car, after I had carefully succeeded in not touching the cars at all, not even to support myself while making recordings. But even when these people (invitees) did want to take pictures I immediately made room. 

 

So this guy irritatedly asked me if I had not taken enough photos yet. Of course I felt agitated and I soon left the stand, giving this guy a summary of my thoughts as nuanced as I could, but sincerely thanking Daniel Cabart upon leaving. Later when I wanted to have my copy of Cabart's book signed by him I reentered the stand, ignoring the other guy who was still walking around the stand. After waiting a bit (Mr Cabart was very busy) I had him sign the book and to my surprise he introduced me to Mr Scott George, director of Revs Institute. We had an interesting talk, he said the people at Revs would be glad to take some dimensions off of the car once it was returned to Florida (at that time I didn't feel the urge to measure the car myself and in detail, as I thought the side view drawings available online were correct), and he showed me some old photos of the car. After our talk I noticed that the bonnets had been taken off of their car and I asked Mr George if I was allowed to take some more pictures. "Take all the pictures you need" was his answer, so I gladly took that chance of course. The other guy who was more worried about how 'glamorous' and 'special' their stand would be (probably not a car enthusiast, really) never interrupted me again. 

 

So that's the difference between people. I have had few setbacks during the Delage research but I know how frustrating they can be if they occur. We modellers are totally dependent on other people. Perhaps those at Centro Storico have good reasons to keep the info from us, for example it was ruled by Agnelli back in the day, a rule that is still followed; or perhaps they intend to recreate a 1/1 Fiat 806 from what stuff they have, or whatever, but if that's the case they have not been honest about it. They could have just said "you won't get it, we have reasons for that" but instead they just kept us waiting and waiting. I'm still waiting for their decision whether to grant me access to their archive, for that matter.

 

This is the reason why I made those videos or why I bother to take some pictures or such when I happen to think of it and when the opportunity arises. I know how difficult it can be to be fully dependent on other people.  

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6 hours ago, Roy vd M. said:

We modellers are totally dependent on other people

I agree with you on what you explain here, Roy, and it is true that depending on the others will is something really difficult. But we can't buy the original models just to represent them!! (in most of the cases, it would be impossible, anyway...).

If I can't get them with this french forum, I will go for an American one... 

 

More, the last trial with my machine was again a failure. 

There are several possible explanations for such failures:

- need for more supports, especially for the thin rods 

- bad settings, especially the exposure time to UV

- problem with the FEP film (when you clean it, removing the resin, it tends to loose a bit of transparency)

 

As we felt like pioneers when building the Fiat 806, I feel like a kind of pioneer with this 3D resin printer. A (french, if possible) community of modelers using such a tool would be welcome to learn faster and understand our failures... This will come soon probably...

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph

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1 hour ago, Roy vd M. said:

I'm still waiting for their decision whether to grant me access to their archive, for that matter.

You still couldn't access to their archives?? Incredible! I must say I was more lucky for this time, having a rdv quite easily by phone, as you remember. On site, I could visit the museum alone and then access to the archives, or more precisely, ask them archives that I could see (I couldn't go and have a look myself in the library). I am so sorry for you about that. Could someone else go and get a rdv like me? I remember that Sam (sharknose156) intended to go to Turin and do that...

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I try not to give up, and made a new trial, with new settings:

- as my first trial was the best (without being perfect), I decided to place my model inclined a bit as it was, and I used the "Auto-Support" mode, in which the software puts a lot of supports, including on some thin rods (from below). I increased the normal exposure time to 10. I have not understood how the "Off time" parameter affects the result. I just have to wait more than 2 hours until this new print is over, praying the modelers God! 

7ZUuzp.png

 

I apologize again for sharing all these failures on a 3D printer, probably loosing more and more modelers interested in this thread.

 

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38 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

You still couldn't access to their archives?? Incredible! I must say I was more lucky for this time, having a rdv quite easily by phone, as you remember. On site, I could visit the museum alone and then access to the archives, or more precisely, ask them archives that I could see (I couldn't go and have a look myself in the library). I am so sorry for you about that. Could someone else go and get a rdv like me? I remember that Sam (sharknose156) intended to go to Turin and do that...

Oh they were welcoming me to their archive, as long as I didn't do any research. Like you, I was invited to sit there at their desk, await them putting all pieces on the table and deciding which to buy a copy of. To me that has no use; I know approximately what they are aware of exists but I'm sure their large archives contain more stuff. The decision to grant me access to their archive (which would have been easy if I had asked for that a year earlier... but policy had changed) which I asked for end of 2016, indeed yet has to be made. Of course I won't remind them -again- as I have tried several times before. I guess they are just not interested in me sniffing around in their archive. As for me, I've moved on to the Delage project where there are friendly people who are really willing to help. 

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