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Olivier de St Raph

Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car

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I felt I had to comment and give a little praise, I haven't done so for ages! I  often find the rubbish kits where you have to work at it are the ones that come out nicer in the end, I don't know why it is but shake and bake kits I always mess up somehow, can't be just me. 

 

As said above, the attention to detail and correction methods are great to observe.

 

Andy

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What would be the specification for a patterning material? here is the question I had to wonder to take up the challenge of getting something convincing with my deeply modified backseat. 

I have used several kinds of putty, including the medium viscosity cyano (reinforced or not with the Magic Powder), the Mr Surfacer, the new Vallejo Plastic Putty, the Green Stuff and the flowable LC composite resin (see above). For the comparison to come, I will add to that short list the Tamiya Light Curing Putty, a material that is not new, but that I had abandoned (wrongly) as probably many modelers. 

Of course, there are many other putties on the market, but is there one that answers better than the other ones to this specification?

Before bringing my humble reply to that question, let's precise the specification of a perfect putty?

1) very good adhesion to the polystyren (if the putty does not adhere correcty, it will peel off...)

2) very short time curing (hardening) (you have obviously to wait the complete curing of the putty before doing the sanding job and with some modeling material, it may take time...

3) comparable hardness of the putty/ plastic (if the putty material is much harder than the plastic, it is very difficult to get a good result when sanding). I prefer a softer than a harder material, even if the best is to have a very comparable hardness...

4) high viscosity: a low viscosity material flows and is so not adapted to give a shape...

5) easy to apply: a fine tip is a  priori more convenient than a material contained in a tube, fe.

6) light color: this parameter is particularly important if the paint to apply is light (what is the case precisely with my cream color backseat)

7) no curing shrinkage: a material that retracts when curing is a problem. You have to anticipate that by putting more material than necessary, and, despite that, you will often have to apply a second coat...

8 ) State of surface: a perfect putty allows to get easily a smooth surface without needing any surfacer or primer...

Before bringing my own conclusions (that may be discussed of course), it is necessary to precise that the specification is not the same if you just have to fill a small gap or if you need a material to give a shape to carve, what is the case for my backseat. It is particularly for the latter that it is important to find the best material. Indeed, a small gap will be easily closed by many of the options mentioned above (the cyano, fe, or the Vallejo Plastic Putty).

Necessary also to say that it may be very interesting to combine the qualities of 2 different materials, in order to get the shape and in the same time a smooth surface.

And now here are my conclusions: 

 

1) very good adhesion to the polystyren:

- Medium Cyano (MC): 17/20

- Mr Surfacer 500 (MS): 17/20

- Vallejo Putty (VP): 17/20

- Green Stuff: 17/20

- flowable LC composite (FLC): 14/20

- Tamiya LC Putty (TLC😞 17/20

Conclusion: all the material of this short list have a very good adhesion to the plastic, except the flowable LC  composite, not too bad though, and that was not developed for such a use (dental product).

 

2) very short time curing:

- MC: there are 2 ways to get a fast hardening of the cyano (the activator and the Magic Powder). With both, your cyano will get hard very quickly, but you have to wear a mask with the activator (toxic) and you will get a harder material (and with a rough aspect) with the powder. If you don't use neither activator, neither powder, the cyano dries in a few seconds to a few minutes depending on the coat thickness. A precision: some cyano are anaerobic (Colle 21) and won't get hard until you activate it by one of the 2 methods above. It may be an advantage (you have all the time to use the material) but imho, it is necessary to have also a "classic" cyano.

To give a shape, I would personally use the classic cyano combined with the activator (wearing the mask). With such a combination, very fast drying: 17/20

- MS: 10/20 

- VP: 10/20

- GS: 12/20 (the advantage of the very long time curing of this material is that you can mold it without worrying for a while, the drawback is that you have to leave it dry at least 12 h before it gets really hard)

- FLC: 19/20 (5 seconds under a good LC curing lamp)

- TLC: 17/20 ( idem but not immediately totally hard)

 

3) comparable hardness putty VS plastic:

- MC: 15/20, a bit harder than plastic imho (10/20 with the Magic Powder, much harder as ever mentioned above, requires to use in combination with a soft material on top)

- MS: 14/20 (softer than plastic)

- VP: 17/20

- GS: 16/20

- FLC: 12/20 (much harder)

- TLC: 16/20 (a bit harder than plastic)

 

4) high viscosity:

- MC: 15/20 (tends to flow a bit in thick coat)

- MS: 10/20 (not adapted to give a shape, it is rather a material to use in combination with a higher viscosity one)

- VP: 13/20 

- GS: 18/20 (high viscosity, allowing to give the desired shape)

- FLC: 16/20

- TLC: 15/20

 

5) easy to apply:

- MC: 16/20 with my home made applicator (a 0,3 mm steel rod mounted in a mechanical pencil)

- MS: 15/20 

- VP: 16/20

- GS: 13/20 (not very convenient, you have to wet your fingers - or better your gloves - and to mix it until you get an homogeneous material)

- FLC: 19/20 (fine tip)

- TLC: 13/20 (you will see below how I could improve a lot this parameter with the TLC, getting a 16/20)

 

6) light color:

- MC: 16/20 (clear, a light color would be preferable imho)

- MS: 11/20 (grey, should exist in white...)

- VP: 20/20 (white, perfect color for a putty)

- GS: 8/20 (dark green, :confused:)

- FLC: 19/20 (nearly white)

- TLC: 18/20 (light yellow)

 

7) no curing shrinkage:

- MC: 19/20 

- MS: 9/20 

- VP: 19/20

- GS: 17/20

- FLC: 18/20

- TLC: 18/20

Except the Mr Surfacer, all the other are very good or excellent on this parameter.

 

8 ) State of surface:

- MC: 16/20

- MS: 19/20 (that is why it is interesting to use it combined with a real putty)

- VP: 17/20

- GS: 13/20 (presence of bubbles due to the hand mix, requires a surfacer on top)

- FLC: 16/20 (good state of surface but requires special polishers because of the hardness)

- TLC: 17/20

 

I come-back on the way I could improve the convenience of the Tamiya Light Curing Putty:

tyta27.jpg

 

N.B: if you use this TLC, take care, you must work in a lightly lit room!

 

Conclusion: there is of course no perfect material, but I have appreciated the very short time curing of the Tamiya Light Curing Putty. Combined with a very good adhesion to the plastic and to a comparable hardness as the plastic, it is good for repairing and modifying plastic models. But for big corrections, the Green Stuff with its high viscosity, will be the best... And for finishing, the Mr Surfacer (pity, should exist in white, not only in 1500...) is fine, like the Tamiya white Surface Primer (that pity does not exist in a higher viscosity, such the Mr Surfacer 500)... It is imho important to know the different materials and their features to do the best choice. All of them may do a service to the modeler, and experience them is the best way to choose the best in such or such condition.

Happy modeling!

 

Olivier

 

P.S:

Ag8Dyy.jpg

 

Notice that the Tamiya Surface Primer covers very well, and so, even the Green Stuff was correctly turned white...

 

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WGmuUW.jpg

 

My reference document for the ridges (please tell me if it is not the right word):

8tTrZQ.jpg

 

The comparison below shows the difference between a totally dull and toy looking part (AMT) and what a patient craftsman - much more faithful, furthermore - begins to suggest, even if there is definitely still a lot of job: 

gQDdDR.jpg

 

N.B: I must say that I have a doubt about keeping the choice of the Pecamax Wimbledon White. Applying it on my backseat, I find it a bit yellowish, I don't like this color very much, and looking at all the photos I have (period ones, RK Motors Indy 500, Coupe in the H. Hainault book etc.), the real Wimbledon White seemed to me lighter, nearly white. I could finally decide to make my own color, from a mix of Tamiya acrylic paints. So, I would follow in a way the Roy's theory of representing a lighter color for a reducted model...

I just wonder what color I should add (in very small proportions) to the X-2 Tamiya White...  Some trials will be necessary, and Juan Manuel could probably help me, he who is so experienced in such mixes with Tamiya acrylic colors...

Now I even wonder if I could not just apply the X-2 as base coat, and a slightly darker color in hollows...

Every suggestion or comment will be welcome of course.

 

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wBVY4i.jpg

 

N.B: I know that for most of you, confirmed model makers, the explanation just above is not necessary (as the putty review of my post# 328) but I also think that this thread may be read by unexperienced modelers...

 

H9n7BJ.jpg

 

Aq1w4l.jpg

 

N.B: I have ordered the references 242 (2 mm) and 243 (2,5 mm) "half round" Evergreen because I struggle with the small beads of the backseat, especially on the seating surface, not steady enough... The precise size should be 2,16 mm, that's why I will certainly use the 2 mm ones, closer than the 2,5 mm ones.

 

kMdRM7.jpg

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Thanks for watching and liking mates! But I am sorry, I made a mistake on my dry fit assembly (because the AMT kit is wrong on that point too): 

Wbcr5m.jpg

 

DrSNJk.jpg

 

This observation will have heavy consequences on my build and will require deep modifications, to get this important missing step: the floor will have to be placed at a much lower level, what will suppose many corrections and adjustments at the same time on the floor part and on the underbody one...

 

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The color I expect for my Ford Mustang is rather a "Spanish White" (also called "Blanc de Meudon" or "Blanc de Troyes"). It is situated between the White (0/0/0/0) and the Cream White (0/0/11/0), with a small touch of yellow (0/0/6/0). The Pecamax is rather an Off White (blanc cassé) color imho (0/0/11/0).

 

uNtdC5.png

 

(source: Geek'Arts.fr dictionnaire des couleurs)

 

Only trials will allow to get this color. Any suggestion welcome...

 

Olivier

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A patient grinding job on the floor and the underbody parts allowed to save about 2 mm height, necessary (enough?) to get the door step we may see on the real car:

iCodea.jpg

fhfBUu.jpg

 

thUo3O.jpgEM2M1k.jpg

 

New dry fit assembly: the step, now about 3 mm, would be 2,7 mm with the felt:

jVSFBq.jpg

 

Will I keep these parameters as a compromise or should I go on saving a few mm for a more important (and probably more right) step?

 

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Compromise? It doesn't sound like you Olivier 🙂 

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56 minutes ago, JeroenS said:

Compromise? It doesn't sound like you Olivier 🙂 

 

Thanks Jeroens ;). In fact, to be sure, I would need to know the precise height of this step. But it pains me to ask again Bernard, that I ever actively solicited...

The best would be for me to buy a Ford Mustang 1965, but it is not an option for now... :(

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On 15/09/2018 at 13:17, Olivier de St Raph said:

the guy explains he uses the Tamiya TS-14 (Gloss Black), without saying if he sprayed it from the can or from an airbrush. Anyway, he gets a very nice sheen and a smooth surface. I have ordered the TS-14, hoping I will be able to get the same base coat...

You can decant the spray can to use with an airbrush. A little late in the day with you mega build, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

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Welcome on the "mega thread", Snowman! (how could we call the more than 200 pages of the 806 research??... ;))

As you could see if you read the whole thread, I did it myself later... (my post# 289 p. 12).

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3rJecZ.jpg

 

OzkH1n.jpg

 

jbPz6n.jpg

 

93Psif.jpg

 

N.B: pity, I failed (without noticing it) the photo of the rear part of the right side, but if I remember well, it was quite good (nearly 4 mm)...

After separation of the 2 parts, here is what I could see on the inside part of the floor:

JX1FXk.jpg

 

P.S: I got today the half round Evergreen I mentioned in a previous post, that should help me to recreate better the backseat beads. The ref. 242 should be fine:

Zxt2PL.jpg

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A new check has been done after corrections, and now, I get nearly 4 mm everywhere. Maybe I will ask Bernard about this door step height, it would be a pity to remain more or less wrong on this point... 

hjB0QK.jpg

 

J9GJs9.jpg

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Ez5UbM.jpg

 

The first mix trial was the good one. I chose to add a pinch of Tamiya X-8 to the White X-2 and could get the precise White I want for my Indy 500. I know that the Pecamax paint is supposed to match very well with the Ford Wimbledon White, but I found it a bit yellowish. Is this in relation with what Roy explained above? I don't know but it is sure that I prefer to get my own White, for 5 main reasons:

1) All the photos of the real car I have show a color that matches better with this mix than with the Pecamax one

2) It will be much more easy for me to work with the Tamiya acrylic paints, that are familiar for me, and that allow to use the 96° alcohol as thinner, while the Pecamax required a cellulosic thinner

3) The Pecamax is difficult to get from the can

4) I can, by adding more or less X-8, get exactly the color I want, and it is fe possible to use a slightly different color for the "leather" / body.

5) I have no 5th! :D

 

Example of period pic: the car looks nearly White rather than Off White (I know we can't rely on photos but anyway, I prefer it like that):

dZhDFQ.png

 

Example of recent pic (H. Hainault book): here too, the Pecamax seems more yellow, definitely...:

C3Gks2.jpg

 

Last example: the RK Motors restoration (the car at more than 1.000.000 $ has been sold but it is not me the owner, I promise!): notice that, if we may see small differences from a photo to another, the Pecamax always looks too yellow.

pzFSOY.jpg

 

N.B: If like me, you add a very few Yellow in your White flask, be very careful, add a very very small amount small and small until you get the desired color. If you put a bit too much yellow, you will have to add a lot of White. I experimented that in my depend...

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