Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Dear friends,

 

Thanks a lot Steve, Roger and John for your encouragements, much appreciated.

A new little update with my hood:

 

 

N.B: a delicate stripping job had been done, using the Tamiya Paint Remover (only on the concerned area), requiring a new sanding step and a new coat of WW, because the letters FORD had lost a good part of their details, due to the many previous coats. The letters should so be correctly represented...

 

Cheers, O

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello chaps,

 

A new little update:

 

 

 

The correction on this Blue stripe will be very delicate. Indeed, the risk is to get a too dark Blue on the portions of the stripe that does not require a complement of paint. I will do my best...

 

To be followed...

 

 

[Hamden]

1 hour ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

I will do my best...

 

And we know it will be perfection as you will not accept anything else!

 

  Stay safe            Roger

[Totally Mad Olivier]

2 hours ago, Hamden said:

 

And we know it will be perfection as you will not accept anything else!

 

  Stay safe            Roger

Always very kind, Roger, but we know perfection is just a goal...

In parallel to the hopefully last corrections on the hood, I begin my Clear coats battle (still no reply from Barbatos Rex...).

Indeed, I decided it was time to be as sure as possible of the Clear Cote I would use, instead of experimenting on my build.

Of course, this battle should be useful for further builds and, I hope, for other modelers…

A coat of acrylic Tamiya X4 thinned with 95° alcohol was sprayed on 8 plastic spoons, both sides (concave and convex sides).

8 different products will be tested.

Which one will be the best to get a nice Gloss finish with the best state of surface, the best mirror effect?

 

 

We know that for some of these products, the best result will be got after a sanding/ buffing job. That is why I will first show the results just after the setting following the Gloss coat, and then after this post processing step.

Some precisions about the implementation protocol for these 8 products:

- the Spraymax 2K is a spray Clear Coat dedicated to 1:1 cars, that I recently bought to be applied on little scratches of my Model 3 Tesla after filling/ sanding/ Oversea Blue coat. If it is good for 1/1, it could be too on a scale model...

- the Zero Paint should arrive today. As for most of the Clear coats of this selection, I will apply strictly the manufacturer instructions

- the acrylic X22 Tamiya will not be thinned with the X20A (very good thinner but in my experience, not the best to get a bright finish). I will consequently rather use the Aqueous Hobby Color thinner (about 1/1), that, still in my experience, tends to promote the brightness.

- I have ever used the MRP 2K (see above) and this Clear coat, when setting, tended to shrink a bit, especially in concave areas, giving by places a very undesired wrinkled effect. I have though decided to leave a 2nd chance to the product. 

- the Klear Kote Gloss tested here is the "old" version one (you could see above the big setting problems I had with the new one). I could get very nice results with this product, but to get them, a very delicate and patient post processing job was necessary (sanding/ buffing). On complex areas such the

front part of the car, this post processing job is very difficult and I would prefer a product that would give good results from the outset.

- the Microscale Micro Gloss is the only product of this test that will use water as thinner. The right ratio should be about 2:1 (more coat than water) to avoid a drop effect (tiny drops on the surface).

- I used the acrylic H30 Mister Hobby for the front parts of the car, because it provides a very acceptable shine effect without post processing, when thinned with the Aqueous thinner of the same brand. I am though not sure it is the best option on flat and large areas such the hood.

- the enamel Marabu Klarlack will not be thinned with the Tamiya X20 (great enamel thinner but like the X20A imho not to get the best shiny look) but rather with the Tamiya Lacquer thinner, more suitable for this shiny look.

 

To be followed...

[Pouln]

Very interested to see the results of your tests, Olivier. Who needs Barbatos Rex anyway? Your own tests will do fine.

 

Pity about the stripes saga on the bonnet. 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

On 21/10/2021 at 13:05, Pouln said:

Who needs Barbatos Rex anyway? Your own tests will do fine.

Thanks for your confidence, Poul! And as they say, one is never so well served as by oneself.

Here are below the first results.

But 2 or 3 precisions preliminarily:

- I have added another product to my test. Pity, the can was nearly empty. The result of this product is though very interesting. It is the Mr Hobby TopCoat Gloss.

- I could not test up to now the Zero Paint product, as I didn't get it yet

- I have just ordered some other Gloss coats on Passion 132 (still boycotting Oupsmodel...) and they will be as well included in the battle as soon as possible

- in order me not to be influenced, I have first placed the spoons from the best result to the worse without being able to read the labels (convex side)

 

And now the results (before sanding/ buffing):

 

 

 

Analysis: 

- I was well inspired to add the Mr Hobby Top Coat Gloss, as it appears to give the best results. The mirror effect is beautiful, and I can' t imagine what it will be after a buffing (imho sanding not appropriate, a good new...). 

- Very good too, another Mr Hobby product, the H30 thinned with the same brand's thinner. I was right using it on the front of the car, because this Gloss coat doesn't need to be sanded (buffed?) to give a nice shiny look. It would be interesting to test this great product on a large area to see if it also suits.

- the "old" Klear Kote Gloss and the MRP 2K come in third position tied. A little grain (not so much, really) and we know that these products needs to be slightly sanded/ buffed to give the best results. It will be interesting to see what it is after the post processing job... Notice that I had not wrinkled problems with the MRP on this little sample.

- the other options are all not acceptable for me, the Marabu probably needing to be considered as the best one, while the Spraymax 2K is the worse (will it be fine for my car???)

 

Now what new Clear coats did I order?

As Mr Hobby gave the best results, I had a look and saw they have a "Super Clear Gloss spray" (B513). I also ordered the GX112 Super Clear UV cut of the same brand, but to be used with an airbrush. I finally ordered the Tamiya TS13 (can), to leave a chance to Tamiya, while the X22 (very good in other indications) was really poor (maybe because thinned with another brand's thinner?)

 

Edit a few hours later:

no sanding at all but a buffing job (Tamiya Compounds Coarse, Fine and Finish with the pulp of my right finger index, only then a microfiber cloth was used to remove the excess of Compounds and still enhance a bit the shine) was applied on all the spoons. This buffing job allowed to improve all the spoons. Meanwhile, I will show only the best results:

 

 

 

4 products give very good results after buffing: 

- the Mr Hobby TopCoat provides a very nice mirror effect with nearly no grain effect after buffing. It doesn't seem to be necessary to do a sanding job prior to buff the surface. This coat tends to darken the initial color (the sample is clearly darker than the other ones)

- the Mr Hobby H30 is a very good choice too. It turns a bit darker the initial color (much less than the TopCoat) and, like the latter, doesn't require any sanding job prior to the buffing one. It will be necessary to test this great Clear coat on a large area before deciding to use it on the whole body, what I should soon do.

- the "old" Alclad Klear Kote gives nearly as good results as the 2 other ones. A slight sanding job may be necessary to get finally a mirror effect. It is what I did and explained August 4, p. 64.

- the MRP 2K SC is also a good choice.

 

In this battle, I didn't test the resistance of the Clear coats. As it is also an important parameter, I made briefly scratch tests (with my nail) and Tamiya tape masking tape application and removal tests. Among the 4 Clear coats, 3 were very good (H30, TopCoat and MRP) while the Alclad Klear Kote seemed more fragile. 

 

The definitive conclusions of this battle will be drawn after the last tests including the Zero Paint and the ordered Clear Coat.

It is important for me to say that these tests are mine, necessarily operator-dependent, especially for airbrush coats requiring to be thinned (such the H30, fe). So many factors may influence the outcome (ratio Coat/ thinner, spray pressure, distance, thickness of the coat,, one or 2 coats etc.). With a can such the TopCoat, less factors as the ratio and the pressure are predetermined. Another important factor to take in consideration is the moisture content (avoid applying a coat if it is too high).

Another recommendation (I experienced that to my depend on my Mustang front and rear wings with sharp angles): apply at least 2 coats on edges to avoid the buffing job to remove the coat (and even the undercoat of paint!)

 

Cheers, O

 

P.S: I will be far from my bench for a few days, but just before leaving, I got the Zero Paint Diamond Clear Coat. I will probably wait to get the others coats (ordered later) before going on with the battle...

 

 

[Prop Duster]

Excellent, product test. The winners are very clear (sorry I just had to ) 

Your tests seem to be very complete for the conditions you have and the results you are looking for.  Now that we have the benefit of your experiences

there is only one small thing left to do-----send me you address so I can forward my models to you for that final clear coat. --- Oh,  just never mind--- time for my nap.  

"Le succès est un voyage pas une destination"

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thanks a lot Steve for your very funny reply, bringing a bit of humour after my very serious tests. I am on the way back home and maybe end of this afternoon I will be able to prepare next spoons (Blue coat) for the next and last Clear coats tests to come.

I should also probably be able to draw a line under my hood and stripes masking and painting job…

 

More soon…

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello my friends,

 

I just applied the Zero Paint Clearcoat. It is not the most simple product, as we have to mix the Clearcoat, the hardener and the thinner in the following ratio:

- Clear 10 parts 

- Hard 5 parts

- Thin: 1 part

 

I share with you a very interesting video showing nice results, and bringing several useful infos:

 

 

 

For my little spoon, I made this mix:

4 drops of thinner, 20 drops of hardener and 40 drops of Clear.

I followed strictly the procedure, applying first a light tack coat, waiting then 5 mn before applying a wet coat. The pressure was about 30 psi (2 bars) and the distance to the object about 2-6 cm (like in the video)

Unlike the instructions provided in the pack (thoroughly dry 24h), the video suggests 5 days for a full setting.

It also suggests that no buffing is necessary and no orange peel.

We shall see... 

 

Cheers, O

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello chaps,

 

you will find below the pic I took (and the close-up I got from it) to illustrate the remarkable results I could get with the Zero Paint Diamond Clear.

This Clear coat is compared with only the best samples of the previous battle, and it is important to precise that in this comparison, no buffing job was done on the ZP sample, while this buffing could improve a lot the results of the Mr Hobby Top Coat and H30!

I can't imagine what a buffing could allow to get with this ZP great Clear Coat, and we may wonder if it is really necessary... I will though do it of course, at least on my spoon.

 

 

 

I didn't yet get the last Clear Coats ordered on Passion 132 but for now, I had to reconsider the grades I previously put on the 2 Mr Hobby samples (18/20), because otherwise, I will have to put a score higher than 20 to the ZP...

 

Edit a bit later: I didn't wait the required setting time (at least 24 h if I refer to the instructions, 5 days to the video) and used the Compounds only 12 h after the ZP Clear coat. As we might expect, it is even a little better (18/20). This Clear also seems to be rather strong (even only 12 h after applying it) and it is also a major parameter for a varnish.

It is important to recall that to get these results, the base coat must be as fine as possible, because if the ZP Clear Coat is really free of orange peeling, the slightest defects of the undercoat will be reproduced. 

 

Temporary conclusion: the Zero Paint Diamond Clear is for now the great winner of this confrontation, allowing to get great results without buffing.

 

Furthermore, my hood stripes are now OK:

 

 

 

More soon...

[Hamden]

 

Great comparison test Olivier very informative indeed.

One small point not meant as a criticism is that when your 1:1 Mustang was built the paintwork would not have had the mirror finish we have come to expect today therefore I would suggest your Zero Paints unbuffed finish would be accurate for the time frame your replica is depicting.

As always outstanding workmanship and I'm looking forward to the next instalment now.

 

    Stay safe         Roger  

[Totally Mad Olivier]

19 hours ago, Hamden said:

I would suggest your Zero Paints unbuffed finish would be accurate for the time frame your replica is depicting.

Thanks a lot Roger for your kind words. It is the best reward and the best encouragement for me to read such comments while I spent quite a lot of time (and it is not over) to share here  the results of this review.

About the question of buffing, I agree with you, I think it is not really necessary considering the great shine got with the ZP Clear Coat and the fact that in 1964, the cars were indeed probably a bit less shining than today. If I may avoid the buffing step, it will also mean less time spent, less risks to remove the coat on edges and no Compounds residues to manage...

 

Cheers, O 

[Prop Duster]

9 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

 About the question of buffing, I agree with you, I think it is not really necessary considering the great shine got with the ZP Clear Coat and the fact that in 1964, the cars were indeed probably a bit less shining than today. If I may avoid the buffing step, it will also mean less time spent, less risks to remove the coat on edges and no Compounds residues to manage...

 

Cheers, O 

I whole heartedly agree. the ZP seems to have raised the bar  of the current clear coats. Which you have so diligently and painstakingly researched.  Well done. 

 To paraphrase Forrest Gump  - Modeling is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get. 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Dear Roger and Steve,

 

Looking at the great results I could get on the spoon just applying the ZP Clear Coat (no buffing), we could expect that it would be as great on my model.

Is it because of the color (WW instead of Blue) or of the much bigger size of the door (2nd kit) below on which I made a trial?

The fact remains that, even following strictly the video instructions, I could not avoid an undesired grainy effect that only a buffing (will it be enough? I don't think so, a light sanding from grit 3000 to 12000 will probably be necessary) will be able to improve to get an acceptable smooth surface. It is a big disappointment with the ZP Diamond Clear Coat.

I have to admit, so, that, unless I'm the one who's doing it wrong, at least on a large area and with a light color such the WW, the ZP is not really better than the Alclad Klear Kote (the old one, with which I could get this smooth glossy surface, see the posts of August 2 and 4 p. 64).

And if I really want to avoid a buffing step, the best option (I ever experienced it and mentioned it) is the Mr Hobby H30...

 

 

And a bit later:

 

 

Too tired tonight to go on, I will do the gentle sanding job tomorrow. I will also try again the H30 on the other door...

 

Cheers, Olivier

 

 

[Lvp]

1 hour ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Dear Roger and Steve,

 

Looking at the great results I could get on the spoon just applying the ZP Clear Coat (no buffing), we could expect that it would be as great on my model.

Is it because of the color (WW instead of Blue) or of the much bigger size of the door (2nd kit) below on which I made a trial?

The fact remains that, even following strictly the video instructions, I could not avoid an undesired grainy effect that only a buffing (will it be enough? I don't think so, a light sanding from grit 3000 to 12000 will probably be necessary) will be able to improve to get an acceptable smooth surface. It is a big disappointment with the ZP Diamond Clear Coat.

I have to admit, so, that, unless I'm the one who's doing it wrong, at least on a large area and with a light color such the WW, the ZP is not really better than the Alclad Klear Kote (the old one, with which I could get this smooth glossy surface, see the posts of August 2 and 4 p. 64).

And if I really want to avoid a buffing step, the best option (I ever experienced it and mentioned it) is the Mr Hobby H30...

 

 

And a bit later:

 

 

Too tired tonight to go on, I will do the gentle sanding job tomorrow. I will also try again the H30 on the other door...

 

Cheers, Olivier

 

 

Hi Olivier,

Nice of you to do the clear tests for us.

I have stayed away from the 2-part epoxies because the the fume hazards, the hardness of the cured finish and what I feel to be an out of scale thickness and shine on the finished product, these are ,of course, just my opinions.

I have enjoyed good success with the Mr Color/Hobby super clear. I think much of the success goes to using their Mr. Leveling thinner. It always for the clear to flow out nicely, often not requiring any sanding - just a buffing. The thinner also works nicely with the Tamiya acrylics, I particularly like it with the semi-gloss black.

As always, your posts are informative and helpful in my own building experiences.

Keep up the good work!

Les

[Totally Mad Olivier]

18 hours ago, Lvp said:

Hi Olivier,

Nice of you to do the clear tests for us.

I have stayed away from the 2-part epoxies because the the fume hazards, the hardness of the cured finish and what I feel to be an out of scale thickness and shine on the finished product, these are ,of course, just my opinions.

I have enjoyed good success with the Mr Color/Hobby super clear. I think much of the success goes to using their Mr. Leveling thinner. It always for the clear to flow out nicely, often not requiring any sanding - just a buffing. The thinner also works nicely with the Tamiya acrylics, I particularly like it with the semi-gloss black.

As always, your posts are informative and helpful in my own building experiences.

Keep up the good work!

Les

Thanks a lot for your kind and interesting comment that is a useful contribution to this question of Clear coat.

It is a fact that, probably even more than with other products, wearing a good protective mask is mandatory with the 2K Clear coats (remember to check the mask cartridges deadline for use, mine is OK, going up to 05/2023).

The hardness of the cured finish is a fact too with these 2K varnishes. Is it a good point or not? It would be very good if it was really possible to get a smooth state of surface with no sanding / buffing necessary).

I am gonna do the test with the H30 now, that is very good when thinned with the Mr Hobby aqueous thinner.

And I should get today the Mr Hobby Super Clear in both versions (can and UV cut flask), as well as the Tamiya TS13, to test too... 

Glad if this review is useful for other modelers...

 

Cheers, O

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello again,

 

I made a trial on a portion of the WW painted door with the Mr Hobby H30:

 

 

 

Temporary conclusion: it was not a good idea to do Clear Coat tests on little spoons, especially using another color (Blue) very different from my WW.

I am though very surprised to have got so different results with the ZPDC between the spoon (great) and the door (poor, with grainy surface).

I recommend to do tests in conditions as close as possible from the ones you will meet with your model.

The Mr Hobby H30 is easy to use and to get, it is not expensive, it gives good results even without buffing (if the surface on which it is applied is smooth) and, with a gentle sanding and buffing job, you can get a very good result with a nice shine and no grain. It is for now my best choice.

Will the next Clear Coats (2 of them are Mr Hobby ones) lead me to change my mind (one more time 😉)?

 

N.B: I recommend to use the Micromesh wet to extend their life and to avoid little scratches.

 

More soon...

[Pouln]

Much to be learned here. Thanks, Olivier for performing these elaborate tests. 
Still rather weird that the zp result on the door is so much different from your test result on the spoons.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

13 hours ago, Pouln said:

Still rather weird that the zp result on the door is so much different from your test result on the spoons.

Thanks Poul and yes, I admit it is weird, indeed, and I have no explanation about that. 

I have finally got the last Clear Coats ordered.

I began with the Mr Hobby Super Clear Gloss and the Tamiya TS 13. 

If the result looks very promising with the first one, a strange reaction happened with the TS 13:

 

 

I will wait at least 12h before a gentle buffing and possibly sanding with Micromesh.

 

 

Test with the Mr Hobby GX 112 thinned with Mr Color Leveling thinner:

 

 

Definitive conclusions about these 2 last products will be drawn after their full setting (and possibly a post processing), this week-end. 

And it will be time for me to go on with the Clear Coat Gloss I will have chosen among all the ones tested...

 

Cheers, O

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello to all,

 

Here it is, I think I got my winner!

 

 

 

Notice that the 3 finalists are all Mr Hobby products. Honestly, I never would have guessed that, while famous brands Tamiya, Alclad and Zero Paints to name a few, were in the battle. Of course, this is just my perception and my own experience, and maybe other modelers will prefer another Clear Coat. It also doesn't mean that in general, Mr Hobby are better products than the 3 other one mentioned (if you follow me, you know that I love many Tamiya products, fe). It just means that for a Gloss Clear Coat, Mr Hobby has  in its range great products and that I recommend them for this precise purpose.

 

To be followed...

[Pouln]

Looks good, Olivier.

I have had great results I showed you earlier with the AK 2K gloss. Missed that in your comparison. 
Most of what I did, didn’t need any sanding at all.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

2 hours ago, Pouln said:

AK 2K gloss. Missed that in your comparison. 
Most of what I did, didn’t need any sanding at all.

You are right, Poul, I forgot the AK 2K Gloss, and probably other products.

No sanding AND no buffing at all??

Can you precise this and show again the results (I admit I don’t remember having seen them here).

I could order the AK Gloss Coat even if the GX112 seems to me great and if I am now a bit skeptical about the 2K Clear Coats...

In the meantime, I begin the final battle between my 3 favorite products:

 

 

To be followed...

[Pouln]

 

5 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Can you precise this and show again the results (I admit I don’t remember having seen them here)

I posted it on june 10 in your own thread (page 61 or thereabout) including a picture showing the result.

After a number of layers I did sand it and then I put on one final layer.

After that only buffing with the tamiya stuff.

Later I was able to do all this without sanding at all. That’s what experience does to you 😉

[Totally Mad Olivier]

50 minutes ago, Pouln said:

I posted it on june 10 in your own thread (page 61 or thereabout) including a picture showing the result.

After a number of layers I did sand it and then I put on one final layer.

After that only buffing with the tamiya stuff.

Later I was able to do all this without sanding at all. That’s what experience does to you 😉

Thanks a lot Poul! How could I forget that?

I didn't wait your reply to order the AK 2K Clear Coat (ref. 9040), as I also needed to order eyedroppers.

Now you say you are able to do all that without sanding at all, what is very interesting.

Even if I can understand that nothing replaces experience and trials, can you explain as precisely as possible how you can manage that, please?

Indeed, on the first pic you showed last June 10, we may see that if the shine is indeed very high, the state of surface is rather grainy.

With a rather strong Clear Coat as it seems to be, it looks like a real challenge.

I myself wondered, about the Zero Paint diamond Clear, if I should not add more thinner than what the manufacturer suggests, to get a thinner consistency , and so possibly, much less grain. I didn't spend time for such trials as I could get fine results more simply.

Now another question about the technique you used with your (great) 1/8 Alfa: you said that you applied at least 3 layers and only then did the sanding job, that's right? I suppose the the successive layers were more and more grainy, if you didn't sand between each one, no? And by applying so many coats, didn't you lose a bit details?

 

Thanks in advance for your contribution

 

Olivier

 

[CrazyCrank]

37 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Thanks a lot Poul! How could I forget that?

I didn't wait your reply to order the AK 2K Clear Coat (ref. 9040), as I also needed to order eyedroppers.

Now you say you are able to do all that without sanding at all, what is very interesting.

Even if I can understand that nothing replaces experience and trials, can you explain as precisely as possible how you can manage that, please?

Indeed, on the first pic you showed last June 10, we may see that if the shine is indeed very high, the state of surface is rather grainy.

With a rather strong Clear Coat as it seems to be, it looks like a real challenge.

I myself wondered, about the Zero Paint diamond Clear, if I should not add more thinner than what the manufacturer suggests, to get a thinner consistency , and so possibly, much less grain. I didn't spend time for such trials as I could get fine results more simply.

Now another question about the technique you used with your (great) 1/8 Alfa: you said that you applied at least 3 layers and only then did the sanding job, that's right? I suppose the the successive layers were more and more grainy, if you didn't sand between each one, no? And by applying so many coats, didn't you lose a bit details?

 

Thanks in advance for your contribution

 

Olivier

 

 

Hi Olivier

 

I've tried myself to add more thinner to the ZP 2 K clear, in order to avoid the grainy and/or orange peel aspect, but it didn't work, for me at least...so, a big sanding and buffing job has been mandatory to get a (just) acceptable surface aspect.

Now, I'm trying to clear with Pledge Floor Gloss, and my first result got yesterday with it is very promising: No grainy aspect, no orange peel at all after complete curing (8 hours) and no buffing needed.

I'm not pretending that it is THE solution, but Barbatos Rex himself calls this product "the poor man's 2K clear" !

If this can help....😉