Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car

[Hamden]

 

Glad your tyre markings came out as your high standard demands. 

Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your gloss coat not drying and also the damage to the air intake grill. I know you will win the battle in the end but it is very frustrating to have to redo what was already a superb paint work result

 

   Stay safe               Roger

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thanks a lot, Roger!

I will do my best to win that battle, be sure that my determination is total...

And below a little update to confirm that:

 

 

 

Cheers, stay safe too, Olivier

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello guys,

 

I am in week-end far from my bench up to Tuesday but here is below a little update (job done just before leaving home):

 

 

 

Furthermore, I wondered if I could not apply Urshimato great idea to get a better golden line (funny, he thought the same and sent me a PM about that). Here is below the whole tyre pic in Word after cutting as well the gold line and the lettering "Firestone 500" in Photoscape X:

 

 

The idea is to get a better inside line (due to the transverse strips of the tyres, pity, impossible to apply a decal on the outside of the gold line) and in the same time, to lead the limit of the decal up to the White portion (am I clear??) because, if you look closely, the decal limit is slightly visible for now.

I will carefully do trials before applying this idea back home.

 

Cheers, O

 

 

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello chaps,

 

you will probably think that I exaggerate in my desire to be faithful, but as I had a little time in holiday, I could take a step back that led me to notice that the tyre I took as référence for my build was the restored version one. It appears that the latter, despite its very high cost (1 M $, I recall), is not totally faithful to the original one, as this merciless close-up comparison confirms:

 

 

The inscription Firestone 500 is bigger in the original version, with kinds of commas around « 500 », the gold line is a bit thinner and it is not as outside as on the restored version. Finally, the White strip seems to be a bit wider, its inside limit being closer from the rim than on the restored version.

Now if I compare the original tyre with mine today, and even if I ever did a big job very first to remove the wrong bulges and inscriptions and represent the inscriptions, gold line and White strip (by error, inspiring me on the slightly wrong restored version), it appears that the transverse strips outside of the gold line are wrong too and above all, as we ever saw above (my post of March 27, p. 57), the AMT outside tyre shape is wrong, flat while it should be dug, or more precisely more bulged, as the comparison below shows that the AMT tread is much too narrow. Prop Duster suggested to graft a 3D correct shape portion to get a better relation tyre/ rim (April 7, p. 57) and I said it was too late to do something like that. For memory, here is below the comparison pic (edited to be adapted to today's comment) I posted then:

 

 

Notice that this comparison was done with the restored version, not necessary totally faithful to the original as we just could see. But on this precise aspect, as the previous pic of this post precisely confirms, the restored version is quite correct.
I would be so happy to improve this tyre shape, that would (if I could achieve that) definitely bring a substantial improvement to my build.

For my Fiat 806, as the Italeri tyres were totally wrong, a great modeler, vontrips, had, from the original Protar ones, duplicated resin ones that he sent me for a friendly price. If I could as well find someone who could do that for my Mustang (I am not skilled and/or equipped for such a job), it would be amazingly great. The 3D option could maybe be an option…

 

N.B: I blame myself for falling into the trap that consists in trusting in a restored version (even this one) instead of trying to check on original pics before going on. I should begin to know that, and to learn to look closer... It is though not the first time that this happens to me...

 

Cheers, O

 

[Urshimato]

Hi Olivier 

I did not see that picture before I sent my reply to you. Now that I have seen it, it appears to be possible to replicate. Could you please give me details of the colours involved. I can see the white circle that is now against the rim. The Firestone 500 lettering is that still gold? The other markings on the sidewall are they coloured or raised (higher} than the sidewall. The more details you can give me will make it easier for me to work out a plan. Please note, I am a printer for 36years and am combining this knowledge with modelling so if there are things you don’t understand tell me what they are and I will be able to explain them in more detail for you. 

NZ is in lockdown for another week or two now so I will devote a lot of my time to getting your tyres correct. I am finding this enjoyable and is giving me something to focus on. 

Wayne

ps. my own projects can wait. Let’s get this right. 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

6 hours ago, Urshimato said:

Hi Olivier 

I did not see that picture before I sent my reply to you. Now that I have seen it, it appears to be possible to replicate. Could you please give me details of the colours involved. I can see the white circle that is now against the rim. The Firestone 500 lettering is that still gold? The other markings on the sidewall are they coloured or raised (higher} than the sidewall. The more details you can give me will make it easier for me to work out a plan. Please note, I am a printer for 36years and am combining this knowledge with modelling so if there are things you don’t understand tell me what they are and I will be able to explain them in more detail for you. 

NZ is in lockdown for another week or two now so I will devote a lot of my time to getting your tyres correct. I am finding this enjoyable and is giving me something to focus on. 

Wayne

ps. my own projects can wait. Let’s get this right. 

Dear Wayne,

 

I of course accept with pleasure and gratefulness your kind help, as any contribution to my build.

Do you have a suggestion about the best way to expand the tyre?

This is indeed the first job to do.

Only then will come the details on the sidewall. For that, I am sure your skills as pro printer will be very helpful.

About the color of the inscription and line, in the lack of period color close-up, I will trust in the restored version, and keep the gold one…

 

Cheers, O

[Urshimato]

Hi Olivier 

I have sent you an email with a coloured picture. It is an artistic impression and is the best I can find. 

Wayne

Edited September 13, 2021 by Urshimato

[Totally Mad Olivier]

11 hours ago, Urshimato said:

Hi Olivier 

I have sent you an email with a coloured picture. It is an artistic impression and is the best I can find. 

Wayne

Thanks a very lot Wayne for your help!

As modestly, you sent me the great pics you found rather than posting them here yourself, here they are below:

 

 

 

On the other hand, if these pics suggest that the inscriptions were White, the color one below confirms that on the Indy 500 Pace Car, it was Gold. On this precise point, the restored version is right:

 

 

I made new merciless comparisons (with the original version this time) to check if really, the tyre had to be bulged on the sidewall:

 

 

 

Conclusion:

if I want my wheels to be more faithful to the original, I should:

- bulge the tyres without increasing necessary the tread

- remove the wrong transverse sculpture (what will ease the thin Gold line job)

- modify the rim for the latter to be much more internal.

- redo the White strip (wider) and the inscription (bigger), with flags around "500"...

 

Each of these points is a challenge in itself. But I think it is worth it...

 

Cheers, O

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello again,

As I was wondering how I could bulge the tyre, I made a very interesting observation:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, there is still a lot to do with my set tyres/ wheels, but I think it's a good beginning...

 

Cheers, O

[Pouln]

Detailing is a fun(ny) business. There is no end to it. I also notice that the pattern on the side of the tires is completely different on the real car compared to the supplied tires. The latter have a radial pattern outside the golden line , while the photos show a much mire intricate pattern on the real ones. 
Guess you will be forced to replicate that too 😉

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello chaps,

 

The first modification above was necessary, but it did not fix the problem of the much too external hubcap: a new (deep) modification is mandatory for that:

 

 

 

N.B: the adjustment was a delicate job, for the hubcap to be inserted in the rim without (or nearly without) gap, but it was worth it imho:

 

 

 

I have consequently dug a bit more the rim (now OK) but things are a bit more problematic for the hubcap, as I ever trimmed 2 ones.

I begin to need a third kit!! But this kit becomes very difficult to get, as it is out of stock nearly everywhere…

 

 

7 hours ago, Pouln said:

Detailing is a fun(ny) business. There is no end to it. I also notice that the pattern on the side of the tires is completely different on the real car compared to the supplied tires. The latter have a radial pattern outside the golden line , while the photos show a much mire intricate pattern on the real ones. 
Guess you will be forced to replicate that too 😉

 

Dear Poul,

 

If you mean that the transverse (deep) sculpture just outside from the Gold line, it is something I ever mentioned. I will try to improve that too indeed.

If you meant something else, can you precise what you mean? 

 

Cheers, O

 

Edit a bit later: I still improved my proposition:

 

 

[Pouln]

8 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

If you mean that the transverse (deep) sculpture just outside from the Gold line, it is something I ever mentioned. I will try to improve that too indeed.

If you meant something else, can you precise what you mean? 

Hi Olivier, that is indeed what I ment and apparently I missed your earlier comment on this. It wil not be easy to improve that. 
then again, you are famous for not taking the easy roads to your goal.😎

[Totally Mad Olivier]

10 hours ago, Pouln said:

It wil not be easy to improve that. 

On this precise aspect, I will probably do a compromise: the wrong deep transverse sculpture will be removed at about 80%, keeping just a minimum relief (the challenge will be to get a regular slight sculpture) but it will remain transverse:

 

 

 

 

N.B: No primer was applied and I did not remove the Chrome for this trial. The TS 14 was directly applied on the AMT Chrome. The advantage is to get a perfect state of surface, an inconvenient could be that, with the black base and the Chrome coat to come, not removing the AMT Chrome could lead to lose some details…

 

Though, a bit later:

 

 

 

Definitely, this GSW is a great product, especially in this airbrush version, giving very nice results easily and conveniently...

 

Now a word about my project, that more and more looks like the ascent of a summit of the Himalayas (relatively speaking). The only way to go on without losing oneself and without losing hope of reach the top is to set short term goals (currently just try to represent faithfully one wheel with its tyre and hubcap) without thinking about the further huge work yet to come.

 

Cheers, O

 

P.S: if (by chance) you have the AMT kit and if you are interested in selling it, send me a PM please. A third kit could indeed be useful to get the best result possible, but I won’t buy such a poor kit on ebay (the only place where I could find it) for an exorbitant price.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello,

 

I tried to go on and applied the GSW Chrome on my hubcap. If the result was first great, things have turned a bit different after the very challenging Balck strips painting step:

 

 

N.B: the AMT Chrome is not only smoother than the GSW, it is also much stronger, meaning that when you remove the unavoidable excess of Black coming on a Chrome line, you can’t remove it with a wooden toothpick without risking to damage the Chrome...

 

So 2 options for me:

- use the AMT Chrome, that was my first choice and that was the best way to get convincing hubcaps using Vallejo Gloss Black to paint the strips (pragmatic choice)

- use the GSW Chrome and find another way to apply the Black strips. I could also apply Jammydog 0,5 mm masks over the Black strips after the Black base and before the Chrome coat, and remove them then, getting so neat strips. I made a trial of the latter option and it would definitely be a tedious and painstaking job to do that on all the strips of the 4 wheels. The BMF option being also very delicate, I will certainly go for the pragmatic choice above.

 

Furthermore, Urshimato (Wayne) sent me by email 3 pics. If I ever had 2 of them (posted above here or there in the thread), the 3rd (just below) is new for me (more exactly, I had got it but in bad quality, while this one is HD, confirming that the Gold line is much narrower than the one represented in the restored Pace Car. 

 

 

 

A big thanks to Wayne for his very useful contribution!

 

 

To be followed...

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello again,

 

I showed in previous posts that the problems regarding the set tyres/ rims/ hubcaps came nearly completely from the AMT rims, that were much too thick (explaining the too flat tyre sidewall - see the posts of September 12 and last Tuesday evening -) and whose inner edge was much too wide (leading to a much too emerging hubcap - see my post of last Wednesday -).

On the tyres, the only complementary job (since the reliefs and inscriptions on the sidewall had ever been removed) was to remove nearly completely (I keep a little trace, see the previous post) the transverse sculpture. Of course, the previous inscriptions, Gold line and White strip on the sidewall will be completely removed too, as we could see above that I wrongly based my work on the restored version...

On the hubcap, the only things to do were to decrease a little bit the outer edge (initially 23,62 mm diameter, finally 23,34 mm) and to decrease the inside notch (male part) in thickness (initially 3,9 mm, finally 3 mm)

Now the biggest problem was to remove my sets ever in place, without damaging them (and the whole build, of course...) if possible.

I worried about removing the hubcaps, but I could get them with no damage or so few.

The tyres were also removed without much difficulty.

 

 

 

 

 

The hardest is to come: I need to remove the previous and totally wrong rims:

 

 

A bit later:

 

 

And even a bit later:

 

 

A good day... 3 among my 4 rims could be separated, and as I have a fourth and a fifth coming from my 2nd kit (one being ready), I have all what I need to go on and do all the necessary corrections. New challenges to come. More, I should not need a third kit.

And other good new, I should be able to print again the outside air inlet (that should be even better than the previous one as it will be printed with the Elegoo Mars 2 P instead of the Anycubic Photon) as I could finally export dbostream's files in my Lychee Slicer. But that is for later...

 

 

Cheers, O

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello chaps,

 

My tyres are now ready to redo the sidewall inscriptions and strips job. Pity, the way I proceeded above, using the great front view of the restored Mustang to get custom decals of the latter (in particular the inscription), can't be used since I don't have such a front view of the original tyre. I have to find the best way to represent faithfully this sidewall, in particular the inscription Firestone 500 with the flags, but also the thin Gold line (the wide White strip is more easy) what is not so simple. Any suggestion will be welcome. I btw sent a PM to Urshimato about that, as he is very interested in this challenge.

Now a good new: doing again researches in the Net (the demanding modeler is also an investigator) to determine precisely the size of the Firestone 500 with the flags inscription, I could find a great pic (I only had a poor version, this one is HD) , that will be very useful not only for the wheels, but also for other details such the pattern on the licence plate. Here it is:

 

 

About the licence plate, it is definitely and by far the best doc I have: we may read fe: MILE RACE inside the wings, what was impossible on other docs:

 

 

About the inscription, it confirms one more time that it is Gold and not White, and it gives a good idea of the inscription size (we could see that the latter was much too small on the restored car).

 

I have to go now (pro daily work), so to be followed...

 

Cheers

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello,

 

I said yesterday that the tyres were ready. It is now also the case for the rims and hubcaps. I am now gonna focus on the sidewall job...

 

 

 

I begin the sidewall job with the White strip. The first version of the latter, based on the restored Mustang, was not wide enough, and it is the inside diameter that had to be modified, the inside limit needing to be closer from the rim:

 

 

After several trials on paper, it appeared that the right radius seemed to be 13,93 mm, to get a 27,86 mm inside diameter. Even if this measure seems to me correct, I will carefully apply the White strip on only one tyre first, to avoid wasting White custom decal...

I also tried to determine as precisely as possible the different circles and the lenght of the whole inscription:

 

 

 

To be followed...

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello,

 

Here is what should be my strategy to get a very narrow Gold line. I recall first that the one we may see on the restored Mustang tyres is not narrow enough:

 

 

I used the round tool of my MacBook to apply a Black circle that hides about half of the Gold line on this pic:

 

 

 

This png file is then exported in Word, to get the circle right size, 37,1 mm diameter (18,55 x2) (see the previous post).This pattern will be printed on Clear custom decal, tried and the size will be adjusted if necessary.

 

 

I will apply Gold as I did above for the inscription in this area on my tyre and the decal will act as a mask. I should so get a neat narrow Gold line...

 

I will then do the same for the inscription, as ever done but with the right size and with the flags...

 

Edit a little bit later: we may see that the Photoscape eraser tends to widen the line. I could get a narrower line with my Black circle to get a more faithful version:

 

 

And even later, on second thought:

 

 

After printing on the Clear custom decal, the « White » (in fact Clear) internal circle has been cut, and LDF was applied. In parallel, after masking, a coat of enamel Gold X12 was airbrushed (instead of brush and Vallejo previously) on the concerned tyres areas.

Will I achieve all this job to get a convincing sidewall?

To be honest, I am sure of nothing, since all that requires an extreme precision and no error.

 

Cheers, TMO

[Urshimato]

Hello Olivier 

I sent you an email recently about creating these decals and you said there were things you didn’t understand. See if this makes things more  understandable for you. This describes the procedure for one decal, repeat theses steps for the number of decals you have to view (stepped up on the sheet). You will need white decal film. 
This will also require two passes through your printer. 
1/ print on your decal sheet a circle that indicates where the gold will need to be. This is only an indication so needs to be just barely visible. 
2/ airbrush your gold around this circumference directly onto the decal sheet, allow extra gold inside and outside of this line. 
3/ when the gold has dried put the sheet back through your printer and print your black elements, you now have in this order, a gold outer ring, inside the gold a black ring with gold lettering. The black from the printer still creates a mask for the gold. This is why you made the gold bigger than was necessary, this also takes into account any miss register you may get between passes through your printer. Inside this black ring will be a white ring that will be the white part of the side wall, following this will be a solid black centre. Make sure you have an indication of where the the centre is. 
4/ using a compass cutter you can cut your decal to the finished diameter. I would recommend this be done in one continuous motion with just enough force to cut through the decal film, there is no need to cut through the backing sheet. 
5/ apply your decal and when dry remove the excess centre portion.  
Any questions you may have are welcome 

kind regards 

Wayne

ps. I have sent an email

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello chaps,

 

The first attempt with the Gold line decal was good, but the diameter of the circle was a bit too small (about 36,5 mm).

I made a new printing of the pattern, increasing a bit the size of the circle to get about 37,3 mm.

In parallel, I could go on with the inscriptions. I could find in the Net checkered flags that I could use, exporting them in Photoscape X to get the desired transparency. Here are the 3 items Firestone, 500 and the flags in Word for now. I will print them as well and should soon be able to apply them, after the Gold line placement:

 

 

To be followed...

 

P.S: I just saw Urshimato's post while I was posting mine. I will first use my own method, that should work imho (it is probably not so different from his one) and it is only in case of fail that I will study carefully his recipe.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hi again,

 

 

 

To be followed...

[Prop Duster]

Olivier, You have me sitting on the edge of my seat, waiting for your results.     

 

This is worse than a soap opera, always with a commercial interruption, just as the problem is about to be (or not be)  solved and everyone lives happily ever after (or maybe not)  

 

p.s. Very clever problem solving between you and Urshimato,  truly inspiring. 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

13 hours ago, Prop Duster said:

Olivier, You have me sitting on the edge of my seat, waiting for your results.     

 

This is worse than a soap opera, always with a commercial interruption, just as the problem is about to be (or not be)  solved and everyone lives happily ever after (or maybe not)  

 

p.s. Very clever problem solving between you and Urshimato,  truly inspiring. 

Thanks a lot Steve and Roger! It is important for me to know some modelers are still following and interested in my thread, interminable though it is...

A new little update, so:

 

 

 

I am rather glad with the result (I would have been definitely unable to get such neat narrow line, inscriptions and checkered flags with a brush), that represents so imho a real improvement vs my previous versions, even if it is of course not perfect.

After the White strip placement (hoping it will be fine), a Satin coat will be applied, that should attenuate some defects enhanced by the Glossy surface required for the decal job.

 

Cheers, TMO

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello chaps,

 

I tried to apply the White strip this morning but, despite the care taken in laying, the thin custom decal wrapped itself around, due to the big hole in the middle (corresponding to the rim).

To prevent this problem from reoccurring, I had the following idea:

 

 

I should have today a bit more time (I was very busy last week) and I hope my 4 tyres sidewall will be OK end of the day...

 

To be followed...

[TonyW]

Very impressive work.

 

Adding an open centre decal is always going to be difficult.

Indydecals print their lettered tyre decals as a black ring with the letters or stripes inside it. They recommend cutting the circle into smaller parts and adding them one piece at a time. 

Maybe that might help you?

 

https://www.indycals.net/decals/tires/goldringtires.html