Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car

[Pouln]

Totally Insane🥴 indeed.

if you ever are afraid that your parts fly when cutting, just do the cutting inside a plastic bag. That will ensure that you will hold on to your parts.

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

10 hours ago, Pouln said:

if you ever are afraid that your parts fly when cutting, just do the cutting inside a plastic bag. That will ensure that you will hold on to your parts.

A good hint, Poul, definitely, but not always easy to put in practice, especially when you use the minidrill.

 

Cheers, O

[JeroenS]

11 hours ago, Pouln said:

Totally Insane🥴 indeed.

if you ever are afraid that your parts fly when cutting, just do the cutting inside a plastic bag. That will ensure that you will hold on to your parts.

 

I'm 1.95 meter, where would I find a bag big enough so I would fit in it 😉 

 

Just kidding Poul, I think I might try your suggestion next time I have to handle something small which would surely ping into oblivion. 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Hello to all,

 

waiting for the 1,6 AA brass tubes to come soon, I go on with my radio buttons (the most complex ones) little update. In order the latter to be more concret (CC was maybe confused because my conical portion job was too abstract), I reproduce here the radio buttons close-up and the drawing I made (post# 849). As you can see, I adapted a bit the initial drawing. In particular, I prefer a 0,6 mm rod than 0,5, because it will be glued more easily and less fragile. Another modif: drilling a 0,6 mm hole in a 1 mm pad was nearly impossible, I chose to increase the diameter of the ring to be glued on the AMT dashboard to 1,3 mm:

 

 

 

 

 

Next steps for the radio buttons:

1- drill 0,6 mm holes in the AMT dashboard

2- glue the 1,6 mm ring on the acetate sheet pad

3- glue the conical portion on the tip of the rod

4- glue the 1,3 mm rivet representing the hollowed final portion on the conical portion

5- Chrome painting job

6- Storing the button that will be inserted and glued on the dashboard later

 

Cheers, O

[CrazyCrank]

7 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Hello to all,

 

waiting for the 1,6 AA brass tubes to come soon, I go on with my radio buttons (the most complex ones) little update. In order the latter to be more concret (CC was maybe confused because my conical portion job was too abstract), I reproduce here the radio buttons close-up and the drawing I made (post# 849). As you can see, I adapted a bit the initial drawing. In particular, I prefer a 0,6 mm rod than 0,5, because it will be glued more easily and less fragile. Another modif: drilling a 0,6 mm hole in a 1 mm pad was nearly impossible, I chose to increase the diameter of the ring to be glued on the AMT dashboard to 1,3 mm:

 

 

 

 

 

Next steps for the radio buttons:

1- drill 0,6 mm holes in the AMT dashboard

2- glue the 1,6 mm ring on the acetate sheet pad

3- glue the conical portion on the tip of the rod

4- glue the 1,3 mm rivet representing the hollowed final portion on the conical portion

5- Chrome painting job

6- Storing the button that will be inserted and glued on the dashboard later

 

Cheers, O

All that hard job and complicated process only to not purchase a lathe ?.........Tss, Tss, Tss 🤣 😝

 

Bravo, stunning job, TTMO

 

[Pouln]

That’s really a lot of work to create a radio button. I hope (and trust) it will show in the end.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

1 hour ago, CrazyCrank said:

All that hard job and complicated process only to not purchase a lathe ?

2 questions about this comment, dear Thierry:

1) would you really get a very good result easily with a lathe?

2) if I had to buy one, what would you recommend? (I will think about it)

 

Cheers, O

[Totally Mad Olivier]

1 hour ago, Pouln said:

I hope (and trust) it will show in the end.

It will, Poul, it will. On a Coupe, these buttons would have been nearly invisible, but on a Convertible bonnet opened, they will be visible. Now is it worth it? all depends where you put the cursor. I love this car, I love this dashboard, this steering wheel, these buttons, and it is a pleasant challenge to represent all that quite faithfully.

 

Cheers, O

 

[PROPELLER]

5 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

1) would you really get a very good result easily with a lathe?

2) if I had to buy one, what would you recommend? (I will think about it)

Hi Olivier!

For simple pieces, as these buttons, it will be very easy...

And in the south of France, for sale the same lathe I use since twenty years!

https://www.leboncoin.fr/outillage_materiaux_2nd_oeuvre/1656650516.htm/

You can get many tutorials on the web for your first steps...

Good luck!

 

Dan. 

[Pouln]

12 minutes ago, PROPELLER said:

Hi Olivier!

For simple pieces, as these buttons, it will be very easy...

And in the south of France, for sale the same lathe I use since twenty years!

https://www.leboncoin.fr/outillage_materiaux_2nd_oeuvre/1656650516.htm/

You can get many tutorials on the web for your first steps...

Good luck!

 

Dan. 

Oh, I can highly recommend this little lathe. You will like it. It takes up nearly no space at all and you can still get all kind of accessories for it. It will save you a huge amount of time, but it is a new skill to master, which you need to be in for.

just make sure that play is minimal on all moving parts of the lathe.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Do you think it is a good idea to buy such a tool second hand? Is it much more expensive new? (with a warranty)

More, even if the model on Le bon coin is sold from a south of France area, it is still 5 hours go and return from St Raphaël, and I am very busy at the moment.

Do you know where I could find this model (new) that seems to be very good for modeling?

Thanks for your hints anyway.

 

Cheers, TMO

 

[CrazyCrank]

1 hour ago, PROPELLER said:

Hi Olivier!

For simple pieces, as these buttons, it will be very easy...

And in the south of France, for sale the same lathe I use since twenty years!

https://www.leboncoin.fr/outillage_materiaux_2nd_oeuvre/1656650516.htm/

You can get many tutorials on the web for your first steps...

Good luck!

 

Dan. 

I couldn't have done a better answer myself

 

[CrazyCrank]

14 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Do you think it is a good idea to buy such a tool second hand? Is it much more expensive new? (with a warranty)

More, even if the model on Le bon coin is sold from a south of France area, it is still 5 hours go and return from St Raphaël, and I am very busy at the moment.

Do you know where I could find this model (new) that seems to be very good for modeling?

Thanks for your hints anyway.

 

Cheers, TMO

 

This model is discontinued !

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Ah I understand now, that I couldn’t find it. Is it the model you own, CC?

Is there another one, quite similar, that you would recommend ?

[CrazyCrank]

6 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Ah I understand now, that I couldn’t find it. Is it the model you own, CC?

Is there another one, quite similar, that you would recommend ?

I use the same lathe since 2 years, I think.

It's a Proxxon PD 230. It is rather good, and PROPELLER himself had recommended it to me when I was in search of a lathe on the Web.

It is discontinued, replaced by the PD 250, probably better, but expansive (approx 1000 euros without tools )

 

Now my skills with the lathe have increased and my lathe is showing signs of weakness, and for my retirement, I've planned to replace it, some day, by the PD400, a must have

But actually, as you can see on my topics, I achieve to produce some good part, with the actual one.

 

[Pouln]

Actually, the one advertised is an Emco Unimat 3. These are discontinued since 1990. Production started in 1976. 
these are precision lathes, that, being cared for, will last forever.

Some history and specs are to be found here: http://www.lathes.co.uk/emco-unimat-3-and-4/

 

actually, looking at the one on offer, it is the basic machine, without carriage feed and without cross slide. Therefore I think it is too expensive. Searching for such a machine on ebay should make you find them with these attachments for about the same amount of money.

You’ll find lots of accessories, like saw and grinding attachments too, but they do cost a bit.

 

I have one in nearly new condition with nearly new accessories, but have it stored savely for the moment for as long as I have space for the Emco Compact 8. 
 

but again, a good one with at least the carriage feed and cross slide is highly recommended.

 

 

 

[Pouln]

25 minutes ago, CrazyCrank said:

I use the same lathe since 2 years, I think.

It's a Proxxon PD 230. It is rather good, and PROPELLER himself had recommended it to me when I was in search of a lathe on the Web.

It is discontinued, replaced by the PD 250, probably better, but expansive (approx 1000 euros without tools )

 

Now my skills with the lathe have increased and my lathe is showing signs of weakness, and for my retirement, I've planned to replace it, some day, by the PD400, a must have

But actually, as you can see on my topics, I achieve to produce some good part, with the actual one.

 

The Proxxon PD400 is a great machine, but much bigger than the Unimat 3. But it’s a modern machine. I think Roy vd M can tell you all about it.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

First of all, thanks to all for your contributions that add to my own thinking.

Many questions come to me reading your comments, as I am totally ignorant about the subject:

- CC, could you make a radio button (you have all precisions required) with your lathe, ideally making a small step by step tuto? It is difficult for me to imagine that a lathe could give you the floating effect of the ring button. Can you really represent that easily? 

- Still CC, you say that your lathe (PD 230), while being not so old, shows signs of weakness. This seems in contradiction with what Poul said about the Unimat 3 (being cared, will last forever)

- Poul and Dan, how can I be sure a Unimat 3 bought second hand has been used with care, and has still the precision required? Notice that for the machine on Le bon coin suggested by Dan, I may make an offer at a lower price (fe, 400€). But if this machine has stopped being produced for a long time, are complementary parts still available?

- I saw the cost of the PD 250 Proxxon, it is at least 1100€. At such an expensive price, do you still need to buy complementary tools to use it? 

- Harvey, if I am correct, you don't have a lathe, and your opinion is interesting on the subject (we all know the amazing pieces you were able to make)

- the opinion of Roy would also be interesting of course, even if I will certainly not buy the PD 450 (more than 2200€).

- Btw, what difference between these models? precision? possibilities? size? The FD 150 is less expensive (about 615€). Is it a bad choice?

 

I recall that I bought a resin 3D printer and, as I said above, this approach of modelism, even if it may give amazing results, requires to become a pro (or at least familiar with) of Fusion 360, and I prefer to spend time in my bench than again on a computer that I use a lot for my pro work (and to share my progress on Brit!), among others. I will probably need 3D prints at some steps of this build, but I will use it as few as possible because I need help to model the parts. Without saying that 3D was a chess, I have to admit it is not really my cup of tea. Will it be the same with a lathe, that, more, will require a lot of time (this precious time I am running after!) doing trials and improving, before getting good results.

As you can see, many questions turn in my head. 

 

Cheers, O

 

P.S: the AA tubes arrived in the relay point, I will get them this afternoon...

[Roy vd M.]

In my Delage topic I present my large. I’m glad I chose it. I originally thought I would not need that size (but just to be sure... it’s a once in a lifetime purchase... I’d better opt for that one rather than the 250). Not long after, Codger encouraged me to change scale to 1/8 and THEN I found out that the 400 would enable me to turn the Delage’s tyres. But only just. With the 250 that would not have been possible. 
 

Plenty more to be said, but this is the basis. I know several modellers (also on this forum) who first chose their lathe too small or too Chinese. Before too soon they regretted their purchase. 
 

But for 1/24 scale the 250 is excellent. Ask yourself if you’ll never wish to create something in 1/8. In my opinion I think you will. I have been wondering often, while reading this thread, why you haven’t started scratch building cars like this in 1/8. That way you really get an eyecatcher; I feel you’re more than capable of doing something like this. 

[Roy vd M.]

57 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

- CC, could you make a radio button (you have all precisions required) with your lathe, ideally making a small step by step tuto? It is difficult for me to imagine that a lathe could give you the floating effect of the ring button. Can you really represent that easily? 

 

I realized I only answered one question. Trying to type as fast as possible (I'm off in a few minutes), here we go. 

 

In modelling, if you want to do something as nice as possible, it's never easy. Including work on the lathe, which in itself is not so hard. You'll make errors and will need to restart. I'm not sure what you mean by 'floating effect' as I have not read all content of the last posts. Seeing these buttons I do know you'd have to make them in more than one part, to have optimal result. 

 

57 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

- I saw the cost of the PD 250 Proxxon, it is at least 1100€. At such an expensive price, do you still need to buy complementary tools to use it? 

 

Yes, several. It's a good idea to read this post I wrote about that: 

 

57 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

- Btw, what difference between these models? precision? possibilities? size? The FD 150 is less expensive (about 615€). Is it a bad choice?

 

Don't purchase the FD150, it's way too small and it will annoy you that you'll only be able to do the tiniest of jobs. The main difference between the 150, 250 and 400 is size. You'll have a 'work width' of 15, 25 resp. 40 centimeters. Beside that the 400 is stronger, makes use of larger chucks and has more possibilities overall. The larger your lathe the less limited you are.

 

Precision-wise there should be few differences. 

 

57 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

I recall that I bought a resin 3D printer and, as I said above, this approach of modelism, even if it may give amazing results, requires to become a pro (or at least familiar with) of Fusion 360, and I prefer to spend time in my bench than again on a computer that I use a lot for my pro work (and to share my progress on Brit!), among others. I will probably need 3D prints at some steps of this build, but I will use it as few as possible because I need help to model the parts. Without saying that 3D was a chess, I have to admit it is not really my cup of tea. Will it be the same with a lathe, that, more, will require a lot of time (this precious time I am running after!) doing trials and improving, before getting good results.

 

I expect less so than with Fusion 360 and 3D-prints, depending on the machine. If you buy a Chinese lathe you'll have to realise there's more settings you'll have to manage. You'll have to install and, in a way, customize it, whereas the Proxxon is ready for use. As with everything, you'll first have to learn the machine before you can use it. I read a book and watched Youtube-videos. In the end I didn't think it was that hard to learn, but then again I didn't think Fusion 360 was too hard to learn. It's a matter of spending 10-15 hours intensively learning the software / the lathe and then practicing. If you think you're not going to do that.. best not to buy the lathe. If you feel like learning this beautiful tool, for sure you'll enjoy it. 

 

If you're at one point in time in the vicinity of Amsterdam (for whatever reason), please be invited and we could spend a few hours working the lathe. After that you'll know how to use it and what kind of lathe you need / want. 

 

[Roy vd M.]

Here a list of accessories I purchased for my lathe: 

 

 

Here an overview of the total costs for lathe + mill. I think at least 2/3 was what I paid for lathe + accessories. 

 

 

 

 

As regards precision work on small scale, this is an almost-finished carburettor I made for a Volkswagen Beetle in 1/24 and for which I made use of the lathe in several subparts. 

 

 

[Pouln]

4 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Poul and Dan, how can I be sure a Unimat 3 bought second hand has been used with care, and has still the precision required? Notice that for the machine on Le bon coin suggested by Dan, I may make an offer at a lower price (fe, 400€). But if this machine has stopped being produced for a long time, are complementary parts still available?

There are a few signs you need to check for. First of all, the general condition. Is it damaged or not. Paint will be damaged almost always, but specifically look for mechanical damage.

First of all the bed that guides the carriage. It should be clean and undamaged. Then there is the play on the dials for both carriage and cross slide. It should be minimal and you can check it easily by turning the dial handles back and forth noting how far you can turn them without any movement of carriage/cross slide. Play should be significantly less than  one fourth of a turn. This goes for all lathes. Play on the main bearing of the headstock. There should be no movement at all when you pull and push the chuck on the right side of the headstock or the pully on the left side.
Whether a lathe will fit the work you do is determined by the centre height and by the distance between de centers.

the Unimat 3 is 46 x 200 mm meaning that the maximum diameter of a piece you can work with is about 90 mm (for all practical purposes, you need to reckon that 80mm is the maximum diameter. 200 mm is the maximum lengt of a piece, but that will almost always be way more than you need.

Accessories you really need: I will make some pictures later today. Handy is the milling attachment, with some additional accessories. Toolposts for the cutting tools. At least the cross slide (you need it when you want to make a tapered piece like you do now) and preferably the carriage feed (you can do without it, but it comes in handy when you have longer pieces to work on).

Indexing/dividing device may come in handy if you have the milling device.

main weak point of the Unimat 3 is the motor. It does not allow for prolonged use (longer than 20 minutes or so). Then it needs to cool down. Should it ever fail, it is quite easy to switch it for an electronically regulated DC motor. 
It uses belts. The originals are made from a rubber compound that deteriorates. Exchanges are all over the web for quite low prices.

Spare parts and accessories are often still available with specialist suppliers (new and used)

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thanks a lot Roy and Poul for your detailed replies.

7 hours ago, Roy vd M. said:

But for 1/24 scale the 250 is excellent. Ask yourself if you’ll never wish to create something in 1/8. In my opinion I think you will. I have been wondering often, while reading this thread, why you haven’t started scratch building cars like this in 1/8

The Ford Mustang I build is 1/16, the Fiat 806 (as you know) was 1/12, the Chevy Bel Air was 1/24. Up to now, I only built 2 cars kits at 1/8, the Traction Avant turned into a 4 doors Convertible (long ago) and the Pocher Lamborghini Aventador.

And, as you know, I also build aircrafts, usually 1/48.

In fact, I build very slowly (lack of time) and I ever begin to wonder where to put the builds to come (including this one) by lack of room.

That is why I will not spend 2400 € or more to buy the PD400 for now.

I think I will go on first using my craftsman techniques, and if I finally decide to buy a lathe, it will probably be the Proxxon 250.

Roy, I had a look at your amazing thread dedicated to the Delage, I found back your incredible will to organize the infos (as on the 806 research thread) and get to the heart of issues. Hats off my friend!

Thank you so much for your invitation, very kind. I don't think this will be possible but I appreciate, of course.

 

Cheers, O

 

P.S: what I meant talking of "floating effect" is the fact that the volume and tuning knobs (rings) on the radio buttons seem to float on the pic (gap between the latter and the inside rod). Indeed, I suppose that, like I did, you would also have to build several parts to get a convincing result with the lathe.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

After this interesting (and maybe not over) digression about the lathe question (to get or not to get a lathe), back to the bench, as I have got the 1,6 mm brass tubes I expected to go on:

 

 

To be followed...

[CrazyCrank]

14 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

First of all, thanks to all for your contributions that add to my own thinking.

Many questions come to me reading your comments, as I am totally ignorant about the subject:

- CC, could you make a radio button (you have all precisions required) with your lathe, ideally making a small step by step tuto? It is difficult for me to imagine that a lathe could give you the floating effect of the ring button. Can you really represent that easily? 

- Still CC, you say that your lathe (PD 230), while being not so old, shows signs of weakness. This seems in contradiction with what Poul said about the Unimat 3 (being cared, will last forever)

 

Good evening

 

Have been busy today and it's been impossible to answer you sooner, apologize...

 

I answer to the second question first:

 

My lathe I a third-hand one. It's probably more than 10 years old, and I think that in its 2 previous lives, it has taken bit of beating 😪

So, there's and excessive looseness/ play (I don't know which word I would exactly use)  in the carriages, difficult to compensate, and this leads to a risk of inaccuracy .

My rotating tailstock is worn and less pointed etc.

I live with that at the moment, but surely, I'll purchase a new lathe next year.

 

Now to the first one:

 

OK, I'll try to turn a radio button using you dimensions either this week-end, either in the middle of next week.

To get the effect of a floating button, I think this radio-button has to be made of 2 parts, threaded on on each other.

I'll make a sketch later on.

 

Please, don't be eager for that, I'm very tired after what happened since last weeks.

CC