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Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car


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20 hours ago, Roy vd M. said:

about it dimension-wise etc. is wrong

Anyway and pity, I myself don't have precise dimensions for these handles (I only have for Bernard's car ones).

I will use your tuto and maybe your link, basing me on photos (different angles) to  adjust if necessary the dimensions. As you know (you are much more qualified than me on Fusion), it is possible to modify dimensions without redoing the whole job...

Thanks a lot again for your help!

 

Cheers, O

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mp4kD8.jpg

 

yAVlkX.jpg

More, the hue is much better too, if I refer to the restored Indy 500 (I was very lucky to find a suede tissue that matches so well):

R9ZrcY.jpg

 

Edit 1/2 hour later:

wBtBnn.jpg

 

N.B: Harvey’s package with the wafer leather is still not arrived to me. When I get it (?), I will compare it with my suede tissue, but I think I found exactly what I wanted.

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What a result!! That looks like a perfect colour match, Olivier and much more realistic. Good find Sir! 

Mine doesn't look as good as that and it's black, so it would need painting anyway. Once again, I can only apologise that it still hasn't arrived, my friend.

 

Cheers, H

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5 hours ago, harveyb258 said:

What a result!! That looks like a perfect colour match, Olivier and much more realistic. Good find Sir! 

Mine doesn't look as good as that and it's black, so it would need painting anyway. Once again, I can only apologise that it still hasn't arrived, my friend.

 

Cheers, H

Thanks a lot Harvey ! (and thanks to all for watching and « liking »)

It is clearly an advantage not to need painting, not so much for the job required, but mainly for the look, imho better if the tissue may be remained unpainted. In this instance, the colour of this suede tissue, luckily, matches indeed very well and much better than my previous painted version.

You don’t have to apologize for the problems of shipping, I again thank you very much for the suggestion and for the package you very kindly sent.

This morning, I have been working with Michael (of the St Raphael media center) on Fusion 360 to get nice and accurate door and window interior handles. Indeed, even with Roy ´s tuto, I was unable to do the job alone (too difficult for my beginner level). When I said working with Michael, I am not honest, as he made the job (I just saw him working). I am not at home now, but tonight, I will post the files and, if possible, 3D print them. I can already tell you that I was very enthusiastic leaving the media center. I had prepared this rdv backward taking the best measures possible on the close-up photos above (thanks again to Roy for this video of the unrestored Mustang in the junkyard).

 

Cheers, O

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With Michael, we spent about 1h40 to design these 2 handles. I will try the printing very soon. Will my entry level resin printer be able to represent every detail on such small parts? We shall see, but one thing is sure: I would have been definitely unable to get such convincing handles with scratch techniques. MXKl48.png

 

soQePD.png

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Not bad at all; hope the printer will perform. 

 

Of course with a lathe and mill exemplary results are possible, probably nicer than currently possible with 3D printing, but those machines are expensive, take up space and need to be accustomed to. 3D printing seems to be a good alternative, even though I will personally not use it for my own build due to personal reasons.

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23 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said:

Not bad at all; hope the printer will perform. 

 

Of course with a lathe and mill exemplary results are possible, probably nicer than currently possible with 3D printing, but those machines are expensive, take up space and need to be accustomed to. 3D printing seems to be a good alternative, even though I will personally not use it for my own build due to personal reasons.

Hope so too, Roy.

Indeed, I could see the great results Harvey and Thierry (CC), among others, could get using (with talent) lathe and mill. 

Having no such tools myself, it would be impossible to scratchbuild such small parts with the same level of accuracy.

Even if I have no experience of lathe and mill, I agree with you, I think 3D printing is a good (and new) alternative, especially if like me you don't mind working with resin instead of metal.

It is surprising for me that you are interested (and ever quite competent) in CAD with Fusion 360 without considering the possibility to 3D print. But I respect your personal reasons.

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Roy vd M. said:

probably nicer than currently possible with 3D printing

possibly nicer indeed if we compare with an entry level printer like mine, but I am quite sure the results would be still much better using a high level printer such the Formlabs Form2 (the quality of the resin is probably another important parameter that affects the results). As I said above, I could ask my dental technician (who's got this machine) to do the print for me, but:

- I want to see what I can get with the Anycubic Photon I bought

- I am a bit embarrassed to ask him (he is very busy) even if I know he would do it for me

- I am aware not many modelers can buy such an expensive 3D printer (from about 3800€) and I want to show it is possible to get nice results with an affordable 3D printer.

 

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39 minutes ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

It is surprising for me that you are interested (and ever quite competent) in CAD with Fusion 360 without considering the possibility to 3D print. 

I simply need a set of drawings to base the scale model on. Of course I could make 2D drawings quite simply by manual drawing but they would not be nearly as accurate as 3D-drawings made per Fusion 360. Also, drawing the full car will make my life much easier in the machining phase, plus there will be no (or: a minimum of) hidden surprises along the way. 

 

Regarding my reasons to not use 3D printing... best and easiest to see it as a challenge to use vintage tools and machinery to do the job. 

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Here is the result of this first print: imho, the result is very encouraging and ever quite good. I could have used

the parts so, improving them by adding a bit of resin (flowable composite, Revotek LC or BS) but I am going to try to get a better result by improving the Photon supports:

lKkLER.jpg

 

Here is how I placed the supports for this first try:

RaEmKf.png

 

gHQkLt.png

 

N.B: now that I begin to be a bit more familiar with the use of this resin printer, I can say that, if you are a bit organized, it is not so messy, finally. And I have fun with this new tool (it is a kind of resin cooking ;)).

More, the resin may be used many times and is so not very expensive.

And the results are very promising, under condition your design is good, of course.

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13 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

 

Indeed, I could see the great results Harvey and Thierry (CC), among others, could get using (with talent) lathe and mill.

I don't use or own a lathe and mill.....

 

Keep up the good work, my friend!

 

Cheers, H

 

 

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2 hours ago, harveyb258 said:

I don't use or own a lathe and mill.....

Oh sorry, Harvey, but I have attenuating circumstances for this error: what you show in your thread is so amazing that I couldn't imagine you didn't use a lathe and a mill... ;)

 

Cheers, O

 

Edit a bit later: great new, my friend, I have got your package! this black leather looks very good and will probably be useful for a next build. If you want, I can send you a portion of the grey blue suede tissue I bought (I have your adress on the envelope). Just tell me...

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
adding
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The 2nd trial was better than the first, but it may probably be still improved. Here is the 3rd trial, using this time the white Anycubic resin (instead of transparent green), with still new supports and placement of the window handle on the Photon 3D space:

 

ZpNqIV.png

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Just seen your edit, Olivier.....thank goodness it FINALLY turned up. 

 

10 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

If you want, I can send you a portion of the grey blue suede

Thank you for the offer, but it's not necessary. If I ever need anything though, I know where to come;)

 

Cheers, H

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ZjwT2Y.jpg

 

UWPGq3.jpg

 

P.S: even if I don't think he follows this thread, I want to thank warmly Michael of Crealab (St Raphael media center) whose contribution was essential to get these nice parts. 

 

It is good from time to time to turn around and see the progress ever made, even if I am aware there is still a lot to do:

kf7XQB.jpg

 

wsZIPp.jpg

 

N.B: some subsets and parts are missing on the photos above, that were in another box, that I had forgotten. Among others, the tail lights and the calander frame patiently thinned (post# 122). It seems to me that these steps were done in another life, or at least very long ago...

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
Only the final result matters
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Study for the armrest:

zaCCAu.jpg

 

I tried to design this armrest with Fusion. Well, it is not perfect and I will need small corrections by sanding, but I did it:

nyPOki.png

 

On the restored Indy 500, the armrest is red, over a Chrome support:

2nRy9o.jpg

 

In the lack of certainty (I have no period pic of this area), I decide to trust in this expensive restored car. We may suppose the armrest was red too on the original car.

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
Only the final result matters
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Thanks to Bernard, I have all the necessary measures to represent as well as possible the antenna support. I will design it with Michael this morning:

kWiqqP.jpg

 

The most difficult is to represent the longer portion on the side of the forward wing:

3mDteo.jpg

 

o2cjxS.png

 

MgcjnI.png

 

3nQm6E.png

 

Next step: printing of this support in 2 copies (I recall there were 2 antennas on the Indy 500): here is how the part appears after printing, cleaning in a US vat with Resinaway and 2mn under UV light:

L7jOIc.jpg

 

EOGXMU.jpg

 

The main problem with 3D printing (for today, anyway) is the state of surface, even if it is better with a resin printer than with a FDM one imho. In order to get a smoother surface, a delicate sanding job is necessary. I cut with a 3,5 mm diameter die round portions of sanding paper (here, 800 grit, but next with 1500 and 3000 grit) and glue it at the bottom of a flat ended instrument with a tiny drop of cyano:

9n6WjJ.jpg

 

IOdiFf.jpg

 

As I am going to end the antenna subset, I thought I could measure approximately the lenght of the 2 antennas, the right one being generally longer than the left one on the period pics, as on the one below. My right antenna will be about 1100 mm: 16= 69 mm (the antenna, totally deployed, is much longer). And the left one will be about 37 mm.

I noticed in the same time that the left support is really different than the right one, with a dome shape. It seems to be made of satin black plastic. Logically, I should modify the 3D printed one and give him this dome shape (the most simple option as my Rivets dies do not exceed 2 mm width, while the support should be about 2,8 mm).

B1mekC.png

 

yqX8z8.png

 

ua4Kro.png

 

1MNvsx.jpg

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
Only the final result matters
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By adding the armrests, my inner doors are finally over. Here is, below, what AMT provided as inner door initially. It was a patient and long job to get mine...

8cp6sg.jpg

 

Rjolvt.jpg

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
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I have now to represent what we have inside the window gap. I post again this photo that shows the several coats:

IxsLk5.jpg

 

Question: front limit of the 0,15 mm Chrome rims? do they stop at the air deflector level? 

loP7ql.jpg

 

so the answer is yes. Now other question: where is precisely this level? I could ask Bernard but I can't disturb him every day. I have chosen to measure it on this photo, using (as often) the rule of 3:

hlntg6.png

 

Now I know that I have to represent these narrow Chrome rims with a 56,45 mm sheet (only the top will be visible). I have decided to use a 0,2 mm (instead of 0,15) acetate sheet. 4 items of 7 mm x 56,5 mm are cut on this acetate sheet, and then painted Chrome on the edge:

0bRQjj.jpg

 

I have not yet decided how to represent the spongy look of the black felt between the Chrome window and rims. Any suggestion?

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
Only the final result matters
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Olivier,

i'm very impressed with antenna support. Not sure my shaky hands could do such a fine sanding job.

 

For the black felt on either side of the door glass, I might suggest some black elastic thread.

I'm using it to as a bungee cord for the hood of my Corvette Grand sport.
Just meased it at .04 mm thickness - uncompressed.

Has a nice fuzzy texture - could send you some if you'd like to try it.

Les

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This is one of those cases where the subject at hand doesn't float my boat. However your incredible workmanship makes me come back for more every time. Great work Olivier, very inspirational! 

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Thanks a lot chaps for your kind comments and "likes".

About the antenna support, I have chosen to edit the post with updates along the way, what allows to see the developments in the elaboration, a way to do that I ever used above sometimes and that I could use again. This means that, if you want to see the end of the elaboration, you will have to return on the post# 642 above. In this instance, I just made a new update about the antenna lenghts and the left support...

 

On 16/02/2019 at 21:07, Lvp said:

For the black felt on either side of the door glass, I might suggest some black elastic thread.

I'm using it to as a bungee cord for the hood of my Corvette Grand sport.
Just meased it at .04 mm thickness - uncompressed.

Has a nice fuzzy texture - could send you some if you'd like to try it.

 

That's a kind offer I accept, Les. I will contact you by PM about that. I wanted to try using painted black blotting paper, that could give maybe a perception of felt at 1/16 scale, but other options - like yours - are probably better.

 

I want to say a word about the 3D approach. You probably felt in the last pages that the latter was taking a increasingly large part of my build. It is true, I have fun designing my parts with Michael and, even if my printer can't reproduce all the incredible détails that  the Fusion 360 CAD software allows to get, I think I would have been definitely unable to represent as faithfully the handles, the armrest, the antenna support with any other approach (what doesn't mean that a high skill modeler like Harvey, fe, couldn't).

As I ever said, I am very glad with the resin printer, that not only gives a very acceptable accuracy (a good surprise for an entry level machine that costs less than 400€), but more, allows a quite easy sanding job because the resin, once hard, remains quite soft, a bit like the resin detail aftermarket parts (the sanding job is imho much more difficult and the results more uncertain with FDM printers). I am not holding shares in the Anycubic company, but I can only recommend  this machine to any modeler searching for accuracy and easy post processing.

Of course, I will go on using also craft techniques (as for the window gap elements, fe), but the CAD/CAM will be probably for me the best option for many parts, such the pedals, the outside door handle, the windscreen wipers, the air deflector etc. and, why not, maybe the windshield frame, that AMT represented much too thin.

This new approach has another advantage, substantial for me: it preserves me better from neck pains. Because of my pro activity (dental surgery), in which I permanently use powerful (x4) magnifying glasses and work frequently in difficult conditions (at the bottom of the mouth) on a living subject (sometimes very lively ;)), such pains are very frequent. And working again with magnifying glasses on details for hours and hours reinforced a lot these problems. I remember I had to stop frequently when working on the wheels spokes or on the radiator grille of the 806, with awful headaches requiring painkillers (not always very effective). It was the same when I made the job on the inlet slots with such a craft approach. When Daniel (dbostream) suggested the 3D option, I was far from imagining that, a few weeks later, I would design my parts and print them like I can do today. Every build has learnt me a lot and opened new perspectives, it is the case again with this one. 

In conclusion, the 3D approach represents for me certainly not a universal panacea, but just another way to get the best final result, what I summarized in the short sentence: "Only the result matters" I added under my posts, meaning that I will use, for each situation, the option that sounds better to me.

 

All the best to all, thanks for watching and helping

 

Olivier

 

 

 

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Among the specific Indy 500 Pace Car features, there are these handles, missing on other Mustangs as far as I can see:

AV83LM.png

 

5x65ZQ.png

 

On the other hand, it is very difficult to say if there were front seat belts in this Pace Car. The restored version is equipped with nice red (like the armrests) ones. But on the period photos I have, impossible to confirm...

 

P.S: new (and last) update for the antennas. This new subset will be stored with care until it will be glued on the body:

1MNvsx.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
Only the final result matters
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Les, I don't know if you ever sent me the package for me, but finally, I used adhesive leather to represent the felt around the window:

 

6QvyQ8.jpg

 

buzvhx.jpg

 

2X7OP0.jpg

 

Double sided tape was very useful for this delicate step, allowing small corrections. 

On the other hand, cyano was used to glue the 2 parts of the door.

 

All the best to all, and thanks again to Les for his offer of help

 

Olivier

 

Edit after dry fit assembly:

pis4ni.jpg

 

Definitely, things are never simple with this build...

 

Edited by Olivier de St Raph
Only the final result matters
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