Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Even if my decision is not yet taken, I am more and more tempted by the Indy 500 version, gorgeous, with her inscriptions and blue stripes: The color is Wimbledon White, a off white: In order to check that we have an off white for the body, I compare with this character undershirt... On the 1st photo of this post, the top cover is blue, like the cap of dashboard. Notice that the Chrome underbody below is not present on the Indy 500 version: If I decide to build this version, quite probable, I should rename my topic, fe in: Indy 500 Convertible 1964 Ford Mustang 1/16 from the AMT Coupe kit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 Tamiya not providing such an off white color (except in bomb, the TS 7), I could turn to this Hobby color reference, with no mixing necessary: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 OK , decision taken, I will build this version. Many reasons for such a choice, but the main is that, if my emotional coefficient was at 100% with the Rangoon Red car, it is at 120% with the Indy 500. The historical context (this version was created at only 3 items -and only 2 ones were finally used- and this only 1 month after the birth of the car) is another good reason... I have modified the title of this topic in order to keep the original title, with just quotation marks on 1965, as this was in fact a 1964 1/2 version, modified to play the role of pace car... Thanks for understanding this decision, and for staying in tune Olivier N.B: all the infos brought by Bernard are of course current for this version, as only a few details are different from the 1964 1/2 to the 1965 version. N.B 2: I won't use the red "carpet" ordered and received, the latter passing in losses and profits (maybe for another build...) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 12, 2018 Author Share Posted August 12, 2018 2 new docs: - the first precises the features of the Mustang pace cars: From this first doc, we learn mainly that: - the wheelbase is so about 274 cm, corresponding to 171 mm at 1/16. To check on the kit. - the lenght is so 461 cm, corresponding to 288 mm at 1/16. To check on the kit too... - the structure of the tyres was bias-ply, while we know that the radial ply structure offers many advantages (comfort, road holding among others). Today, on most of (if not all) restored Mustang cars, the tyres structure is radial. - the tyre width was 19,2 cm, corresponding to 12 mm at 1/16. I recall I had measured it at 13,5 mm (post# 33 p.2), 12% too wide. - the rim diameter was 14 inches, corresponding to 35,56 cm at 1/1 and to 22,25 mm at 1/16. I had measured it at 25 mm, 12% too long. - the front brakes were specially reinforced discs, while the rear were drums. - four speed manual transmission. The second is a period order form, very interesting (and a bit funny, looking back) document: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Original and interesting choice, you have my attention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 Sorry for the poor quality of the photo below, but if someone could find such a close-up of this plate, I would be very grateful... On the 5th photo of the post# 126 above, we can see another plate: "500". But here too, I couldn't find any close-up on the Net. On the other hand, I could find this official program: Well, I will be far from my workbench in the next days, for holidays, but I will take advantage to go on with the research aspects... Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 The best I could find up to now is this flag: from which I can get this: P.S: I also found this one, very nice, but with no reference to the Indy 500: (RK Motors Charlotte is a famous dealer of Classic Cars, the one that sells - among others - the beautiful Indy 500 hardtop limited edition Mustang I mentioned above (1099000 $...). Any other suggestion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 15, 2018 Author Share Posted August 15, 2018 I have been wrong talking about a hardtop version for the restored Indy 500 to buy from RK motors. Because of my just average english, I didn’ t understand very well if this car, sold for more than 1000000$, is really one of the 3 original pace cars created for the 1964 Indy 500. But it seems that yes, what would explain the very high cost... Anyway, one thing is sure, this model is a Convertible, and I wonder why RK motors always shows her with her soft top on. I will try to email them... Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 16, 2018 Author Share Posted August 16, 2018 Found on Pinterest, this nice period color photo. Notice the yellow flags instead of checkers): Now it is clear that this Mustang IS the real primary pace car used for the race. That is why, if I want to be totally faithful to the original, this pic is a major doc. I should so represent yellow flags rather than checker ones, and a plate without checkers around the Indy 500 logo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted August 16, 2018 Share Posted August 16, 2018 Try this Oliver..... https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1902&bih=926&ei=K911W7awE8T7kwWc1IvABA&q=64+mustang+indy+pace+car&oq=64+mustang+indy+pace+car&gs_l=img.3...2879.13670.0.14255.24.8.0.16.16.0.120.510.7j1.8.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.13.534...0j0i30k1.0.9ndKkfOWm3k Regards Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Thanks Ron, great link! I did and made a lot of research in order to find the close up of the IMS logo as we may see on the pace car period photos, unsuccessfully for now... If it is impossible to find it, I could try to reproduce it as well as possible... ... and thanks to all (especially Hannes and Harvey) for following and encouraging... Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Also found this....some interesting snippets of info... http://www.mustangandfords.com/featured-vehicles/mump-0901-1964-indy-pace-car-hardtop/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Yes Ron, thanks. On my side, I have ordered a second book: « Mustang: reflets d'une légende » ETAI ed. , with about 300 great color photos... I will get it when back home after holidays... Regards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 From the Mustang Monthly Magazine article suggested above by Ron, that will complete usefully the little summary I made in the post# 121 p. 5: "No other car introduction can equal the Mustang's debut on April 17, 1964. Ford rolled out its new ponycar at Walt Disney's Magic Skyway exhibit during the 1964 World's Fair in New York after teasing the public on all three television networks the night before. An extensive Walter Middy-style advertising campaign in the months to follow pulled consumers into Ford dealer showrooms everywhere. Ford's advertising agency, J. Walter Thompson, created such a successful ad campaign that the Walter Middy theme continued through 1968. Shortly after its introduction, the Mustang was chosen as the official pace car of the 1964 Indianapolis 500. Unlike subsequent '79 and '04 pace car models that were produced in the thousands, Ford assembled scarcely more than 230 Pace Car replicas for 1964: 35 dignitary convertibles for the Indy 500 Festival Parade, and approximately 200 hardtops for a pair of sales contests. Three specially prepared pace car convertibles were also built to pace the Indy 500: 5F08F100240, 5F08F100241, and 5F08F100242, all with 09C (March 9, 1964) date codes. One was the primary pace car and the other two were designated as backups. All three came from the factory with 260 V-8s and three-speed manual transmissions, but their original drivetrains were replaced with Holman-Moody-built 289 High Performance V-8s and four-speeds. As we understand it, the primary pace car experienced mechanical problems and one of the backup cars actually paced the race, a fact that remains unconfirmed by a reliable source. One of the cars, 5F08F100241, has been restored. The other two are unaccounted for. Although it has been widely rumored that race winner A.J. Foyt got one of the three pace cars and gave it to his maid, this is not true. Ford actually gave Foyt a highly optioned Wimbledon White D-code convertible with blue interior. It is unknown where this car is today. The 35 festival convertibles were not specially ordered or prepared. Because they were plucked from regional dealer inventories or from the Dearborn Assembly Plant and shuttled to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, they vary greatly, which also makes documentation difficult. We do know that all were Wimbledon White with a V-8, either 260 or 289, and had a variety of options, ranging from stick to automatic, with and without air conditioning, and so on. Clad in Indianapolis 500 graphics, they were auctioned to dealers after the race. This leads us to the approximately 200 Indy 500 Pace Car replica hardtops produced for Ford's Checkered Flag and Green Flag sales competitions. These contests were run simultaneously during April 1964, with every Ford dealer having the opportunity to participate in at least one of the contests. According to Jim Haskell, who has done a tremendous amount of research on the Pace Car hardtops, each Ford sales district (36 at the time) arranged dealers into groups based on sales volume for the preceding 12 months. Both Checkered and Green Flag groupings were developed in each of the districts. A sales objective (number of units sold) for April was established for each dealership in each group. Dealers that exceeded their sales objective by the greatest percentage qualified to compete against other winning dealers in that sales district. Ford figured out in advance how many winning dealers there would be and scheduled 180 Pace Car White (color code C, '64½ only) hardtops for production in mid-April. That's five pace cars per sales district. The top dealers were declared Checkered Flag winners while runner-ups were Green Flag winners. Checkered Flag winners won their pace cars outright, with Ford Division General Manager Lee Iacocca presenting the keys at a ceremony in Dearborn. Green Flag winners had the option of buying the cars..." Very interesting infos. So we know that the 3 specially prepared pace cars (I represent one of them) were equipped with the HP 289 V8 engine and the four-speeds gearbox. Incredible that 2 from these 3 have vanished... We may understand the many variations (top cover, 260 or 289 engine) when we read that there were 35 festival convertibles, not specially prepared, coming from many dealers or from the Dearborn plant, and varying a lot from each other... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Glad it was of use to you Olivier Regards Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 20, 2018 Author Share Posted August 20, 2018 Note: I just made a correction on the title of the topic: the Indy 500 Mustangs can't be treated as 1965 versions, as they left the factory in March, 1964. So I have chosen the more right: 1964 1/2, without quotation marks... Well, sorry for all these changes, but when I began this topic, I had a lot to learn about this car, what is also the interest of model making... Olivier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spoly Posted August 21, 2018 Share Posted August 21, 2018 if the car left the factory in 64, don't Americans consider it a 65 model? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Hello Spoly, First of all, welcome on the thread and thank you for your question, very good, that gives me the opportunity to bring precisions on the model year matter. There is indeed a problem about the way to call the models before July 13th, 1964. If officially the 1965 model begins April 17th, 1964 (first day of release), there are different features between the cars that left the factory between March (like the Indy 500) and July 13th, and the ones produced after the latter date. That is why the collectors have named '64 1/2 the cars produced before July 13th. Notice that originally (the box-art has been reshaped later), the AMT kit mentioned: '64 1/2 Mustang hardtop: I could have kept the mention "1965" for my topic title, but I prefer the "1964 1/2" designation, because the Indy 500 pace car Convertible version I build, leaving the factory March 9th, 1964, was really one of the earliest Mustangs produced, with early versions features, even if some modifs were brought specially for these very special models, as seen above... Regards Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 21, 2018 Author Share Posted August 21, 2018 Maybe some of you remember of the request I made to Round2LLC, the owner of AMT, on their internet site. It was July 21st. From that date, no answer at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 The comparison hereunder shows that there is 1 good new (the color of the AMT sprues matches very well with the Indy 500 inside and body color) and several bad ones (a lot of modif and scratch to get a quite faithful replica in this area): Furthermore, and while I am still in holidays far from my bench, I have ordered new felts to represent the carpet. On the photo above, it looks like a blue grey. I couldn't find exactly the same color and bought one grey and 2 blue ones. I will use the one that will match the best. It is probably possible to paint the felt anyway. Did someone of you ever did that? With what result? Any suggestion welcome, as always... Cheers Olivier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marco F. Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 To replicate carpet or suit... have you ever tried microballs? You can applicate it like the flocking material, just put it on wet paint. It's not so prominent, looks smother, and can be painted afterwards. So you might be able to get the colour you are looking for. Enjoy your ongoing holidays. Cheers Marco F. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 No Marco, I never tried such a solution. I first will do trials with the felt and, if the result is not convincing (but I think it should be), I will try the microballs option. Thanks anyway for this suggestion. Cheers Olivier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 I have taken advantage of my holidays to reread this topic from the beginning, bringing sometimes necessary corrections. And I fell on the matter of Chrome plating service. I found this on the net: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwixz82en4PdAhVH6RoKHXzeBkEQjBAwBHoECAEQDQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chrometechusa.com%2Fmodel-cars-and-collectibles.html&usg=AOvVaw1YL3FigA4sDbHXCsdYeTkb I wonder if such a service is available in France or at least in Europe. It would be a good thing for reduced shipping costs... I am gonna try to find such a one... In retrospect, I am not sure I will use the Molotow LC for the bumpers. It is definitely the most simple way to get a good result (no dilution, no primer, only 1 medium coat, no need of Clear), but imho, the Alclad Chrome has a finer state of surface, allowing to give a slightly better result and a better mirror effect. The inconvenients of the Alclad are that it requires much more steps (perfect surface with Micromesh, primer...) and that it gives a bit dark Chrome. About Molotow, maybe I need to do more trials varying the air pressure (increasing it) and the amount of paint (decreasing it) to get a better state of surface. I am used to spray at 15-20 psi, but maybe this product needs different parameters... I will try to ask the manufacturer hints and precise indications to maximize this product. But the best option, especially at such a big scale, would certainly to send the parts to a plating service like the one above. Any suggestion welcome on this important matter... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 23, 2018 Author Share Posted August 23, 2018 As I was looking for a European plating service for plastic models, I found this on YouTube: https://youtu.be/obxK_wNUIOQ The powder used here is called MGM Magic Powder, available on ebay. The guy suggests to use the powder over a black primer, even if he doesn’t on the video... I wonder if a Clear is necessary, I suppose so. Is there someone of you who has experienced this solution?? P.S: I could see there are other videos on YTube about this powder, and also topics... I am gonna try to know more... It seems to be a good option anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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