Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 From the video above, I made a few screen captures that are very interesting. We shall compare, so, the original seats with what AMT provides in the box... A general view of the seat (this one is restored quite faithfully, so we may say the original was nearly so): The back: notice the thin seams, and the soft leather back: The Chrome part on the outside of the seat, that allows the tilting for the rear passengers to take place: After preparation of the kit's part, you get this: N.B: 1) when I say that the general shape is quite good, it is not so true, especially for the seat-back, that should be more squared (relation height/ width), with up corners more rounded and more stuffed sides. But only a Mustang fan (and yet...) will notice that. So I accept this shape as a compromise, even if I will try to improve them where possible... 2) the AMT sprues are cream color, a good idea, that will simplify the painting job for the parts (like these seats) that will have the same color or nearly so... That said, I am not sure this leather color was available originally. The book I am waiting for will maybe bring answers on that matter, unless any of you has an idea... Anyway, even if it was not the case, I will choose this color for aesthetic reasons (I clearly prefer this color than the Black one in combination with the Rangoon Red color). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Olivier for both the fan blades and the belts I would use sheet metal if I were in your position. Brass sheet may be cut and then heated to make the metal less flexible and thus ease bending (=tempering). This is very easy to do and only takes a minute. Use pliers with rubber handles or you will certainly temper yourself. Cutting: using a hard basis such as a smooth tile, carve the metal with a knife, along a shape such as ruler. Repeat multiple times. Then ideally using a photo etch folding tool (or pliers) to secure one side, wobble the visible part of the metal back and forth. Before too long it will break, leaving a perfect cut much better than if you tried to knife-cut. This, blade and belts, along with spark plug wires, are among the most noticeable improvements in any 1/24 engine, especially to those kits of challenging quality such as AMT. If if you don’t have brass sheet, simply buy a can of beer or soda*, drink it, cut it open and use that. It looks about right in 1/24 scale. *Or, for you being French, a can of wine naturellement. Great project you have started, I look forward to seeing you replicate those wheel caps. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Hi Roy, it’s good to have you back (Roy has initiated and been one of the main contributors in the huge "Fiat 806 research and scratch builds" thread, that is still opened, with Hannes great work in progress). Thanks for these hints about blades and belt, that I will study with care. I have got brass sheet in 0,1 mm thickness, I never tried to heat it for bending. I will do trials... But I wonder if copper, or even a softer metal (tin would be probably too soft in such a low thickness) wouldn’t be easier to cut, carve and bend, than brass... And thanks too for the concern you show in my project. N.B: my build is at 1/16... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 In front of the unbearable pressure () of my old companions Roy and Thierry, I decide to scratch build this fan with its rounded shaped blades, hoping the fan will be visible once my build over. You can't be lazy, even on a small detail that no one will notice, on Britmodeller!! I joke, of course, and I thank them for their help and encouragements to do the best job. The first thing to do is to enlarge the great pics sent by Thierry: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harveyb258 Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Hi Olivier! I wholeheartedly agree with Roy! I think brass is definitely your best bet! Keep up the good work!! Cheers, H 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 Oh yes I see, 1/16... nice scale that is. I much prefer it to 1/24. Regarding the propeller, you could cut off (=wobble and break off) two rectangles of brass sheet (c.q. can of wine), use a nail file or sanding stick to round off the outer curves, then heat the brass, next bend the outer ends to achieve the propeller shape and finally superglue both rectangles together to create the cross shape. This overlap of two pieces of sheet metal was also the way the original was constructed by the way, see pictures. Copper would be easier to cut, yes, but more difficult to neatly sand and file. You'd have to rely more on your cutting and you wouldn't have a perfectly straight rectangle or blade part. Using brass and a bit of patience you should be able to get near perfect results. Speaking for myself, I would not be able to create the propeller nicely using copper or other soft material. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted July 30, 2018 Share Posted July 30, 2018 By the way, after heating up the brass it will be almost as soft and pliable as copper. So on the one hand you'll use the strength and stiffness of the brass (=cutting & sanding), on the other hand the softness of tempered brass (=bending). This workflow is not possible using copper. Continuing on you being French, I can't imagine you not having a crème brûlée-torch at home. That works wonders. You'll see the brass change colour and that's when you know the tempering is done. After heating for half a minute and discolouring, dip the piece in a bowl of water; it's cooled right away. You'll be amazed at the result (=or at least I was when I first used this technique). If you don't have a mini torch, you can use a simple cigarette lighter or something like that, it takes longer and softening will be somewhat less intense. But it will still soften sufficiently. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 30, 2018 Author Share Posted July 30, 2018 Thanks Roy for this great tuto (the idea to use the crème brûlée torch is a very good suggestion, I had not thought of...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted July 31, 2018 Author Share Posted July 31, 2018 The first thing to do was to remove this wrong fan. I have cut it with a thin diamond disc... ... and then a new coat of "Anthracite" Black has been applied, after placing a 5 mm round mask on the cut portion. I have been thinking about the technique I could use to get more convincing blades. Roy has suggested above a solution that is certainly very good, using heated brass (I will keep this tuto for another situation), but, here, considering the time I had ever spent to refine these blades, and the opportunity to thin them still much more and easily by the removal of the fan, I have decided to keep the AMT part and, by getting very thin blades, to bend them without requiring any heating. But first, I had to scratch build the rod, much too short on the AMT kit: Well, the result seems to me quite convincing, and it should be still more at the end, after the weathering and clear varnish steps. All roads lead to Rome, some modelers often prefer to work on metal, like Hannes, Harvey, CC and probably Roy. They get amazing results and myself, I have no problem with these materials, and I used them for the Fiat 806 among others, but I admit I remain a fan of plastic, for its versatility. I think we can get very realistic effects with such a material in many situations. Though, in some of them, it is clearly much better to use other options. In fact, for me, only the result matters, whether you get it by such or such material or technique. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggles87 Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 That's a great improvement on the original fan Olivier, and the belt now has the slightly " ragged " look which also adds realism. I'm enjoying your build even if it hasn't got wings! John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy vd M. Posted July 31, 2018 Share Posted July 31, 2018 The fan looks just right Olivier, that must have taken some precise sanding. As you say, just remember the technique; it will probably find its use someday. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 I have received the 30 ml refill Molotow Liquid Chrome. I just began to test it. Here are my first conclusions, until the complete drying and the buffing and clear tests. 1) the Molotow is an alcohol based, high gloss special ink, highly opaque. As it is alcohol based, I could clean my airbrush after use as I do with acrylic paint, putting the disassembled concerned parts of my airbrush in my little US tank with rubbing alcohol and completing with an interdental brush. No odour at all. Very good news... 2) the can must be shaken well before use 3) for this first test, I made no dilution, as suggested in the video I posted above. But it would be interesting to do a test thinning a bit with X-20A Tamiya, fe. 4) the packaging is great, the paint is very easy to pour in the airbrush. But you can’t put back in the flask the unused paint. 5) the look of the paint - or ink - is impressive (never seen such a look with any other Chrome paint) in the cup of the airbrush. It looks like mercury, 6) the coat must not be too thin, in order to get the mirror effect, I sprayed at about 20 psi. 7) the product is not very expensive, if you compare it with the Alclad or especially with the SM06 Mr Color Super Metallic. More, with just a few drops, you can apply quite large surfaces, because of its high opacity. 7) the first results, waiting for the drying (I look forward to gently buff with the Tamiya compounds) are really encouraging. This product seems to be one of the best (and most simple) options today to get a convincing and not dark Chrome surface, except probably if you send your parts to a professional of plating, an option that I even didn’t know before reading the Scale Modeler article. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 This morning, I made a first test with Molotow LC, encouraging but not completely satisfying. I have been thinking to what I could do to improve the result, and I think I found an answer, maybe not total but at least partial: a second medium coat. Here is the result I get with this second coat: the Chrome is more bright (compare with the photo above). Ok, I don't get exactly the same Chrome aspect than with the plated AMT part, but don't you think the latter, so bright, looks more "plastic"? Some more trials will be necessary, especially with Clear. One thing is sure: the drying time is long, especially as I applied a medium coat, and you must absolutely avoid any contact with your fingers, even a few hours after spraying. And now, let's see the result I get with this 2nd coat on the bumper. Remember, I asked this question in the post# 49 p.2 (5th pic): Here is the result I get for now (the paint is still drying, this 2nd coat was applied 2 h ago): I would say here too encouraging, but we could expect a finer state of surface and a mirror effect on such a bumper. Any suggestion welcome to get a still better result. P.S: I have received the book I had ordered. Interesting, definitely (I began to read it), and bringing good infos. Fe, I learnt that the rims on Bernard's Mustang (post# 1) were optional ones for the 1966 version: Other info: the automatic gearbox was available (option) from the beginning, in 1964, while the standard gearbox was a 3-speed manual one. It was also possible to get a 4-speed manual gearbox, in these first versions of 1964 and 1965. I have not yet decided if I represent a manual (that's what the kit provides) or an auto gearbox: With regard to the Pony seats(galloping horses engraved on the "leather" seating, they appeared (included in the Luxury version) from March 1965... Here are, on Bernard's car, these nice Pony seats: And to finish with this topic, a nice period photo (in BW, pity) of the Convertible interior in 1965: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Now I wonder (I know, I never rest! 😂) if the results with this Molotow LC would not be improved by applying a gloss black base coat before. Look at this comparison between Alclad Chrome and Molotow LC, both applied over a black gloss base coat: Notice that the Alclad Chrome remains a very good product, with a very fine grain and a good mirror effect (under conditions the surface is very nice and smooth and that you apply the black primer first) while the grain is less fine (little « wave » effect on the surface) imho with the no diluted Molotow LC. But, as we could expect, the Alclad Chrome is darker than the Molotow. More trials to come ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannes Posted August 1, 2018 Share Posted August 1, 2018 A Molotov cocktail with alcohol ! Olivier , I knew it : You are an anarchist !😁 Many greetings ! Hannes 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 FREEDOM FOR THE MODEL MAKERS! FREEDOM FOR THE MODEL MAKERS! MY FRIENDS, WE WILL CREATE A NEW MODELING WORLD, OF SHARING, RESPECT, WITH NO GOD AND NO MASTER (except Juan Manuel, Hannes, and a few other...) In this world, the bombs and machine guns weigh just a few ounces and kill nobody, and the cocktail Molotow will be just a painting option!! Pace Car and love!! Many greetings ! Olivier 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 In order to get a finer grain, I have tried to thin the Molotow LC. The thinning with X-20A was not convincing, but the one with 96° alcohol was better: Maybe I thinned too much (about 50/50)... Anyway, the result is not bad (all depends what you want to get...) and the grain is finer indeed (it was the goal), but for a Chrome mirror effect, I recommend not to dilute (or just a bit, maybe). I am gonna do trials with Clear now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 P.S: because I was not totally convinced (up to now) by my results, I looked again at the Art Primo video I posted above and I noticed that the pressure of spraying seemed to be quite high. I have asked him to what pressure he sprayed. But without waiting for his reply, I made a trial spraying at 30 psi instead of 20, and the result seems to be much better: no base coat, no dilution, pressure 30 psi, only 1 coat, no clear. The guy says in the video that he may handle the painted parts with hands from 24hours, no fingerprints! I will check that. Finally, the most simple is probably the best, and the spraying pressure is probably the key of the success... With such parameters, no "wave effect", but a fine grain. Though, it remains a slight difference with the plated AMT Chrome, the latter giving the best Chrome with mirror effect imho, especially on bumpers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 2, 2018 Author Share Posted August 2, 2018 P.S: on Saturday (day after tomorrow), Défilé d'élégance automobile at St Raphaël. I will go and maybe see a Mustang... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 4, 2018 Author Share Posted August 4, 2018 I have been very busy these last days, because I had to buy a new computer, mine being too old to be repared. And the restoration of my data was a bit complicated (but now OK). Some other considerations (family, pro work...) did not help too... Yesterday morning, I made this "dry" fit assembly: the front bumper fits not too bad, but there will be necessary joints, and that is why I think the best option will be to assemble it first and then paint, even if this will require a thorough masking... P.S: I have been at the St Raphaël Défilé d'élégances automobiles, a bit disappointed, there were Ford Mustang, but later versions. The Bernard's one is much closer from the car I want to represent... Interesting anyway... Here are a few pics of some beautiful vintage cars present there: The only Ford Mustang Convertible was this one, a 1968 302ci: I didn't stay very long, the shade temperature was about 35° at 2 PM! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 I have glued (definitely this time) the bumper and the front underbody. One of the best ways to check our build shape is to do comparisons like the one hereunder: for the latter, I have placed the calender and the bonnet (without glue). I may so draw some conclusions. The general forms are not so bad, for an old kit of a manufacturer such AMT, but: 1- this angle is too squared, should be rounded 2- the bumper shield is still too thick imho (I have ever refined it). I have asked Bernard to measure its width. 3- the ribs on the bonnet are too a bit strong imho 4- the kit's calender can't be used as it is. The best solution will be probably to scratch build it. You must see through. 5- the Chrome thin rod in front of the bonnet, present on Bernard's car, was not on the 1965 version, if I refer to the period photos. It gives a more agressive look to the front face. I have to decide if I represent it or not (not provided in the kit). As I have decided to represent an original 1965 Mustang, I should logically not represent it * 6- the pads have not yet been added, but I measured them to 24 mm on the Mustang I saw yesterday at the Défilé, which means 1,5 mm at 1/16. Any further observation or suggestion will be welcome... Olivier * I think this rod appeared on the GT version... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver911 Posted August 5, 2018 Share Posted August 5, 2018 To be fair to yourself Olivier....and to the Molotow.....Tamiya masking tape is one of the most harmful of tapes where paint is concerned! I would recommend you use a decorators low tack tape...this is designed to be used on wallpaper without incurring damage to the delicate surface. The only time I use the Tamiya tape these days...is if I want to replicate damaged paint surfaces....such as peeling and wear....and use it by applying it for 48 hours after the paint has dried....then when you lift it you get random lifting of the paint...which nicely replicates such effects. One other point of note with the Tamiya....is that it varies enormously in tack between different rolls! This means that you run the 'risk' of success this time....but...when it really matters....disaster! Regards Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, silver911 said: Tamiya masking tape is one of the most harmful of tapes where paint is concerned! Thanks a lot Ron, for this comment which I totally suscribe. Personally, I love the Jammydog low tack masking tape, or a pro masking tape like this Tesa one: Doing the trial with the Tamiya meant in my mind a total security in case of success. Though I ignored that there could be so much differences from a Tamiya tape to another. Thanks for your contribution... Best regards Olivier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totally Mad Olivier Posted August 5, 2018 Author Share Posted August 5, 2018 For the honeycomb calender grille, I thought I could use an Aber grille with hexagonal mesh, like this one: but, ideally, I would need to know precisely the size of the hexagones on the car, because there are different sizes. I have asked Bernard to check this too (I hope I don't abuse of his patience...). Any other suggestion or hint welcome on the matter... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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