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Winsor & Newton Galeria Varnish - white flecks?


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For a long time I've been an advocate of W&N Galeria Matt Varnish. Gives a lovely flat finish and never gives any problems such as fogging; at least until now. Recently I've found that it sprays small white flecks when used; its driving me crazy. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a solution? If not I'll have to find something else.

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Just been in touch with W&N. Their advice is that the problem may be with using IPA as the thinner. Their advice is only to use up to 20% water and to add some flow improver if I want to spray. Learn something new every day!

 

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I always use super hot car body shop thinners, a mixture of xylene, toluene, and cellulose - have never had a problem with Galeria Matt and it’s goes off super fast.

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Goggsy interesting idea that mate i am brush painting galeria ATM and i just cant get it to go on right :(

 

What type of thinners do you use is it just ''cellulose thinners'' or something else? any specific brand you use? what are you spraying the galeria over also? a coat of klear or something else?

 

Thanks and all the best!

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Ah, brush painting with that stuff probably wouldn’t be a good idea - I suspect it would lift the paint underneath because it’s so hot. As to the brand I use, it’s just a generic thinner from the local motor factor. It’s basically cellulose but with additives to pad it out, much cheaper than buying it in small tins from Halfords. I pay about £15 for a gallon. I’m spraying over Daler & Rowney poster gloss, again cut with the same thinner, and I usually get a good flat coat. The trick is to make sure the gloss is cured properly first and then spray on a good wet layer of Matt, not too thick but enough for it to look glossy to begin with. As it cures it should go very Matt. In my opinion the Galeria is the best Matt coat I’ve ever used in 30 odd years of modelling so I’d definitely persevere with it. 

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The gentleman at Colart (W&N) said that IPA isn't recommended as it can 'shock the delicate balance of Acrylic emulsion and other additives that are in this product'.  When I asked him what the preferred thinner was he said 'Water is the best thinner for avoiding any shock, but I would avoid adding more than 20% in the matt varnish. You may find that a small amount of fluid retarder (3-5%) mixed well into thinning water first will help with atomisation.'

 

I'm not quite sure what he means by 'shock' but I'll give it a go when I next need to varnish. Suspect I'll mix up a bottle of distilled water with some W&N flow improver so I've got the right balance.  See what happens and I'll let you know.

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14 hours ago, goggsy said:

I always use super hot car body shop thinners, a mixture of xylene, toluene, and cellulose - have never had a problem with Galeria Matt and it’s goes off super fast.

 

Does the galeria mix into that? 

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18 hours ago, goggsy said:

Ah, brush painting with that stuff probably wouldn’t be a good idea - I suspect it would lift the paint underneath because it’s so hot. As to the brand I use, it’s just a generic thinner from the local motor factor. It’s basically cellulose but with additives to pad it out, much cheaper than buying it in small tins from Halfords. I pay about £15 for a gallon. I’m spraying over Daler & Rowney poster gloss, again cut with the same thinner, and I usually get a good flat coat. The trick is to make sure the gloss is cured properly first and then spray on a good wet layer of Matt, not too thick but enough for it to look glossy to begin with. As it cures it should go very Matt. In my opinion the Galeria is the best Matt coat I’ve ever used in 30 odd years of modelling so I’d definitely persevere with it. 

Thanks for the info mate.. Id be putting it over klear on top of humbrol enamel so maybe that would be slightly more resistant than acyrlics? not sure..

 

I must concur its superb on small scale stuff like 1/76 armor it is DEAD matt and hassle free to brush on, Only issue i have is when i try paint something large like an aircraft wing i get streaks galore! :(

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11 hours ago, Watcher said:

The gentleman at Colart (W&N) said that IPA isn't recommended as it can 'shock the delicate balance of Acrylic emulsion and other additives that are in this product'.  When I asked him what the preferred thinner was he said 'Water is the best thinner for avoiding any shock, but I would avoid adding more than 20% in the matt varnish. You may find that a small amount of fluid retarder (3-5%) mixed well into thinning water first will help with atomisation.'

 

I'm not quite sure what he means by 'shock' but I'll give it a go when I next need to varnish. Suspect I'll mix up a bottle of distilled water with some W&N flow improver so I've got the right balance.  See what happens and I'll let you know.

I did pick up a bottle of the W&N flow improver so ill have a muck around with ratios too!

 

I do see myself as strictly a hairystick user (you know how polarized chaps are on here ;) ) i am seriously considering a basic airbrush when funds allow just to spray galeria on with!

Cheers!

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I couldn’t say either way about the enamel because I don’t use it, but cellulose is strong stuff. Either way, it might not harm the enamel but I bet it would leave the Klear in a right mess. You can pick up hobby related single action airbrushes that run off cans of air for about £20 that will be perfectly adequate for putting on a decent matt coat, worth a thought if you’ve a bit of spare cash.

 

There’s something in the back of my mind about mixing enamel and acrylic based paints/finishes - I’ve a feeling that if you’re not careful you can end up with a crazed finish on your kit because they both react differently to heat/humidity etc. I’m no expert on this because I’m acrylic all the way but if you have a trawl through the paint forums there may be more info. It would be a shame to put a lot of effort into a build only to find the finish all cocked up a few months down the line.

 

Not sure what you’ve got in the way of proper model shops down your way but if you wanted a good alternative to humbrol enamels for brush painting then Vallejo acrylics are decent if you can get them. Much better than humbrol acrylic in my view. The standard ones aren’t for airbrushing but if you did set yourself up with a cheap sprayer then you can get into Tamiya acrylics which are bombproof for spraying.

 

Bit of a tip about mixing your matt; whatever your chosen thinner, the better it’s mixed the better your result will be. If you are anywhere near ikea pick up one of their own brand coffee frothers for a quid. Put some dying batteries in (to keep the speed down) and you’ve got a superb mixing tool that’s a tenth of the price of specialist hobby paint mixers. My finishes  improved massively when I started using one of those.

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Cheers for the reply doddsy, Ive got a can of badger propellant from a bit back i might just buy a cheapie airbrush and see how i go!

 

Since getting back into the modelmaking lark i've been collecting up old enamels (I couldn't get on with acrylics) i mainly use humbrol ''super enamel'',older tins,authentic etc. I dont bother too much with the modern ones. I use lakeland quickshine as my pre decal gloss coat, Ive used W&N over this and not had issues but its just the darn brush marks! 😮 

I've found that if i mix lakeland quickshine with vallejo matt varnish 50/50 i get an acceptable satin finish.

Im just chasing that FLAT finish i guess ;) Saying that with all the above combinations things could go awry over a year or so? not sure..

 

I got myself one of those IKEA coffee frothers after a recommendation on here (maybe you) it works a treat.. Doesn't fit in the little humbrol tins though, So for stirring those i use my dads burnt out and knackered dewalt drill.. With a piece of bicycle spoke in the chuck that i bent at one end 🤔🤣😂

 

No disasters.. Yet!

 

 :gobsmacked:

 

 

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Good one. Regarding the frother, I lopped the end off mine and bent the bottom 5mm or so in order to get it into small spaces...

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Degsy,

 

If I were you I'd look out for a second hand Badger airbrush. I saw one once, a Badger 150, going for £40, I know that having one refurbished costs about £30 so for £70 you have one of the best airbrushes ever made.  I have a 150 that I bought 35 years ago, I recently bought an H&S Infinity but to be honest I mostly go back to the 150. Just a thought anyway.

 

p.s. If you want to stick to the paint brush (nothing wrong with that) then I'd recommend Lifecolor paint. Crap to airbrush (for me at least) but very nice on a brush.

 

M

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  • 1 month later...

Sorry to bump this (decided against a whole new topic...).

 

Has the W&N rattle can varnish got a good rep? The “Professional” range (irony abounds...). Using the Satin on various acrylic paints, an acrylic gloss coat and a few oil washes.

 

Can says “Protects oil and acrylic paintings”. Removable etc. Detailed blurb on the can (ingredients) are utterly illegible. Worth a test on a sacrificial spare part first?

Edited by ExiledFish
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I've used it over the top of Humbrol enamels, it was okay, no dramas, done in a warm room where the can had been for a couple of days with the model as well so everything was the same temp.

I didn't like it as much as the Galeria which I have always brushed on using the rules above without any dramas at all. I got the rattle can as a well intended gift so thought I should use it.

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24 minutes ago, phildagreek said:

I've used it over the top of Humbrol enamels, it was okay, no dramas, done in a warm room where the can had been for a couple of days with the model as well so everything was the same temp.

I didn't like it as much as the Galeria which I have always brushed on using the rules above without any dramas at all. I got the rattle can as a well intended gift so thought I should use it.

Thankyou! I might have a look-see for the Galeria in Satin as their Matt is very good. Final varnish coat so don’t want to melt all the work :D 

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13 hours ago, ExiledFish said:

Has the W&N rattle can varnish got a good rep? The “Professional” range

Wonderful stuff.:thumbsup2:

It’s smelly and obviously petrochemical based, but I’ve found it to be great at giving a proper matt finish.

 

The white and grey parts of this Gundam robot thingy were left in unpainted plastic with some weathering applied. The W&N matt spray gave the bare plastic look an almost painted on finish.

mDmiyUn.jpg

 

Mart

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13 hours ago, ExiledFish said:

I went with the W&N Matt in the end, but rather unsuccessfully - anyone have any tips on removing the dreaded white mist? 

 

I had that once. I sprayed some diluted gloss over it then resprayed with a different product (Tamiya XF-86). Didn't remove it as such but did cover it up.

Edited by Avgas
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Googled around, found a few sites mentioning olive oil as a solution(!?) Thought ‘what the heck, why not’ so brushed olive oil over the mist. Seems to have worked...? Just can’t get the W&N Matt on without the whiteness.

 

I’ll try the Vallejo spray next and if that screws up I’m glossing the thing and ordering some enamel XDFF.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Anyone managed to get this stuff to behave its self when brushed on yet?

 

I may do a test later chaps and report back im going to thin some galeria with some cellulose thinners and brush it onto a humbrol enamel painted test piece.. See if it does lift!

 

Cheers!

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Just for interested brush painting parties i painted over some humbrol enamels with cellulose thinned galeria last night (pre-painted plastic card).. The plastic card had humbrol enamels with klear on top painted on.. this klear coated test piece got a coat first!

A crazy paving type finish ensued!!! 😂😂😂 I would recommend against repeating the said combination...

The next test i painted galeria thinned with cellulose onto just plain humbrol enamels.. It went down okay and did dry with some rapidity! I achieved no better a finish than what i would get if i was to thin the galeria with water mind you! 

So back to the drawing board my plan is to have another go with the galeria mixed with windsor and newton flow improver, and then a second test piece i will use galeria thinned with water and flow improver.. I am going to pre mix these combinations and stir with a drill/coffee frother in the hopes of a good finish..

I think one of my issues before was that i was thinning the galeria but swilling around the mix with my paint brush prior to application not actually stirring it! :P 

 

I'll see how i go now chaps! fingers crossed, cheers.

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