Pre-War Czech Aircraft - Colours and Interiors

[NORTHDUK]

I have been looking at the old first generation KP kits in the stash and would like to have a crack at a few of the pre-WW2 subjects.  My references on Czech aircraft are limited and I haven't found much useful information on the Internet.  Can anyone help with these questions?

 

1.  Is there a ready-mixed paint for the "Khaki-Green" used on these aircraft or can someone recommend a mix for it? 

 

2.  Can anyone comment on interior finishes?  The few references on the Internet are contradictory.

 

3.  I'd like to add some interior detail.  Are there any cutaway drawings or other sources that I could use for this?

 

The kits that I'm looking at are:  Avia BH.21, B.534 and B.35, Letov S.16, S.328 and S.231 and Aero A.100.  

 

I'd be grateful for any help anyone can give.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

 

 

 

 

[72modeler]

Gordon,

 

I don't have this one, but there is a highly regarded monograph titled Polish Aircraft Camouflage and Markings, vol 1: 1918-1939, by Tadeusz Krolikiewicz, that you might look for. I'm guessing it might be pricey. Also, I have attached a link to an IPMSM Stockholm article on Polish aircraft colors, as well another link to P.7a colors that might be useful. Best I can do, I'm afraid, as this subject is not in my wheelhouse. Polish khaki seems to be as hard to pin down as olive drab or PC 10!

Mike

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2007/05/stuff_eng_polish_colours.htm

 

http://armahobbynews.pl/en/blog/2017/06/19/pzl-p-7a-colours-and-markings/

[tempestfan]

Hmmm, but those ref‘s pertain to Polish planes 😉

There was a time by Václav Nemecek on Czechoslowak aircraft which I have somewhere, but it is pre-1989 and in Czech language. This may help with interiors to some extent. It may have been translated. For the 534, there is the MBI booklet which should give you what you need, and there was a similar Czech publication that I have.

Finally, there was a book by Transpress which I could at least read, but confess I never did, even though it is in one of my bookcases.

[Stew Dapple]

Hi Gordon,

 

The Eduard instructions for the Avia B.534 has a colour guide for interior and exterior colours, but the guide only refers to Gunze or Mr.Color paints... it might be useful anyway? They are Czech themselves so should have a good idea of the colours involved, and you might be able to cross-match the colours with whatever range of paints you prefer.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[72modeler]

9 hours ago, tempestfan said:

Hmmm, but those ref‘s pertain to Polish planes 😉

There was a time by Václav Nemecek on Czechoslowak aircraft which I have somewhere, but it is pre-1989 and in Czech language. This may help with interiors to some extent. It may have been translated. For the 534, there is the MBI booklet which should give you what you need, and there was a similar Czech publication that I have.

Finally, there was a book by Transpress which I could at least read, but confess I never did, even though it is in one of my bookcases.

Blast! What was I thinking? As Cheech and Chong used to say- "Repression, recession- it's all the same to me, man!" That's what I get for being so quick on the reply- should have read the original post more carefully; sorry! Thanks for setting me straight, Tempestfan!

Mike😓

[dogsbody]

From this book:

 

 

 

I have this image.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

Edited July 10, 2018 by dogsbody

[jimmaas]

The Mr. Paint line, now labeled MRP, has an airbrush paint called "Light Khaki" MRP-169 in their line.  It is specifically for the Avia B.534 but presumably would work for other Czech types.  You would also need to get a silver for the undersurface and any trim colors, since the MRP line is an acrylic lacquer and should not be sprayed over enamels.  BTW, the company is also introducing a water-based acrylic (no 534 color yet) so beware of incompatibles when ordering.

[Michou]

Agama make a range of Czech colours for models.
Go here:
http://www.agama-model.cz/
click on PAINT RANGE, USING OF COLORS
click on CZECH

 

Mike

[NORTHDUK]

@ 72 Modeler,

 

Thanks for your posts.  Don't kick yourself!  I have a few Polish types in the stash so the information will be useful in due course.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

[NORTHDUK]

@Dogsbody,

 

Thanks for the illustrations of the interior of the Avia B35/B135.  I should be able to make a reasonable cockpit from the drawings and the colour notes are a big help.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

[NORTHDUK]

@ Stew Dapple,

 

Thanks for the Eduard instruction sheet.  Besides the painting instructions, it is very informative about the B534 as a whole.  I should be able to make a good stab at the interior from the illustrations.  How much of the interior will actually be visible when the canopy is on remains to be seen but it's worth a try!

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

[NORTHDUK]

@Michou & @Jimmaas,

 

Thanks to both of you for the paint suggestions.  It's surprising how much difference there is between the various manufacturers' interpretations of the colours.   Agama paints are closer to the shades that I had imagined whereas Peewit colours, for example, are much lighter.  The colours on the preserved B534 in the Kbely museum seem closer to the Agama shade for Khaki but I don't know what the museum based their paint on.  The museum lighting doesn't help much when trying to see the colour properly.

 

I'll look at both the Agama and MRP ranges and see what I can make of them.

 

Thanks again to both of you for taking the time to reply.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

[Ventura11]

Hello Gordon,

 I'd like to put my two pence before your choice.

I have used Agama acrylics and they seems to me good paints.

Easy to use by brush they aways need a primer.

I don't use an airbrush and I can't express any opinion about.

They have also a range of alcohol based paints.

I bought these paints directly from the producer without problems.

Kid regards,

Paolo

[JWM]

Some info you can get undirctly looking at the restored Avia 534s at Kbely Czech aviation musem or Kosice Slovak aviation museym. Google "Kbely Avia 534" or "Kosice Avia 534" and you wil get a lot of shots shich are (due to light conditions) from brwnish olive to greenish  olive. Looks to me that one in Kosice is more green that that of Prague (Kbely),

Short resume is here

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/model/Avia B.534

https://hiveminer.com/Tags/fighter%2Ckbely/Recent

For Humbrol it is like 155+150 in some (!) proportion

Insides are natural alu.

Regards

J-W

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by JWM

[NORTHDUK]

@Ventura 11,

 

Thanks for your e-mail.  I'm sorry that I couldn't reply earlier but we were away on holiday in Austria last week and I have had very little spare time since we got back.

 

I haven't used acrylics but I'm thinking of trying them instead of my usual enamels.  What do you use as a primer?  Like you, I don't have an airbrush so any paint would have to be suitable for brushing. 

 

The Agama paints seem closer to the colours that I have imagined would be used on the Czech aircraft but it is difficult to decide what they were actually like.  I've seen various models on the Internet and most of them are lighter than I had expected.  Peewit seem to have done a lot of research but their colours look lighter than the preserved Avia 534s. 

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

[NORTHDUK]

@JWM,

 

Thanks for your e-mail.  It arrived whilst we were away on holiday and I have not been able to reply until today.

 

As you suggested, I have been looking at photographs of the preserved Avia B.534s in the two museums.  I agree that the Kosice machine looks to be more green than the Kbely example.  It also appears to have an almost matt finish rather than the gloss finish of the Kbely machine.  Your links were very helpful.  A wider search on Google Images produced some photographs of Avia B.534s without their outer covering and they will be useful in adding interior detail.

 

You may be right in suggesting a mixture of Humbrol 155 and 150.  I think this was the recommended mix for post-WW1 Dutch Air Force Fokker DVIIs in the Roden kit instructions and the brown in the 155 seems likely to be close to the Kbely colour.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon McLaughlin

[Ventura11]

Hello Gordon,

I am not an expert about Czech camouflage.

I have used Agama acrylics for WWII French Air Force and Royal Air Force aircrafts.

In my opinion some colours, for example Gris bleau Clair or Mid stone,   have a dark shade and need to be lightened.

As a primer I use Tamiya or Humbrol spray cans or Revell Aqua 76 by brush.

Until Yesterday I never opened two tins of Agama enamels (WWI RFC PC10 and Linen).

After a quick test I can say that they brush well and smoothly only dipping the brush in their thinners.  

Best Wishes

Paolo

[NORTHDUK]

@ Ventura 11,

 

Paolo,

 

Thanks for your reply.  I remember that Humbrol RAF Light Stone always seemed too dark and didn't contrast well with Dark Earth.  It seems to be a difficult colour to match properly.

 

The Agama enamels sound good.  I might use their Khaki unless further information appears.

 

Thanks again,

 

Gordon

[JWM]

Gordon, sorry for delay in reading your mail  but I did not went to see the Interwar secion for some time.  

I  am about to do some Chech or Slovak machines as well. Now I am finishing Aero A 100, but in stash I have two Avias 534 (Eduard and RS) and even third - the old KP (but I am thinking to do B34 of it), Ba 122, Bs 122,  B33, Letov 328, 16 and two Praga: 39 and 241. So the question of colours concern me but what I have found it is that they were having many variants of colours.   It looks that each producer had own colours (?). I think that discrepency between two Avias 534 colours in two national aviation musemums clearly show that even there there is no common agreement about the colours. Avia 534 on all colour profiles is presented grren (even fresh green) but I have found reccomendation to paint in Humbrol 26 which is light brown colour...

As a conclusion I think we have to paint in any colour similar to US olive drab

BTW - have a look here, the talk about Humbrol 159

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/183800-pre-wwii-czech-color-question/

Regards

Jerzy-Wojtek

 

[NORTHDUK]

@JWM,

 

Jerzy-Wojtek,

 

Thanks for your e-mail.  I think you are right about the use of different colours by different manufacturers.  Agama C4 is intended for aircraft produced by Avia and C5 is for other manufacturers.  Your suggestion that a colour close to US Olive Drab would be suitable seems sensible.  Thanks also for the link to the thread on ARC Forums.  It was interesting and it is a shame that it ended so suddenly.

 

Good luck with your models!

 

Best wishes,

 

Gordon