Old Airframe vacuformed Supermarine S.4

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

4 hours ago, Learstang said:

Wow! Nice work on that NiD 37! I actually tried my hand at scratchbuilding a Dayton-Wright RB-1

From 2010:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

4 hours ago, Learstang said:

This Bristol Racer I'm talking about will be my second one; the first one now resides who knows where (it was my very first vacuform).

😉

We commit the same sins, it seems:

 

 

 

I got the Arctic Decal set years after I finished the model, but one day I will remove the old ones and apply them.

The kit is quite bad, and has a couple of noticeable inaccuracies, one being the depiction of the landing gear groves on the fuselage, which has to be corrected.

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

5 hours ago, Learstang said:

That might be one I'd take a chance at scratchbuilding if I had good plans for it.

No plans I know of, I had to sketch my own based on a side view from somewhere, an inaccurate plan of the military variant, and available photos, taking my chances.

 

[Courageous]

That 'spoked' spinner looks a nightmare!

 

Stuart

[greggles.w]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 7:29 AM, Moa said:

Hi Stuart

In this case, the purpose is actually to obscure as much as possible the spartan cockpit, as noted above, since the opening is really small, and the overall quality of the kit doesn't really merit much effort in this department.

You can see I used flat black inside, but for modelers willing to spend some time there I think it could be safe to follow the interior colors of the S-6, well known and available online.

I did not see in my searches anything regarding the interior of the S-4, but I did not look for comparable shots of the S-5, which could be explored too.

 

I am under the impression that all the white bits of the plane - including the rear fuselage containing the cockpit - were timber.  In contrast to the later S5 & 6 which were all metal & painted appropriately, I believe the inner skin was unfinished timber?  I’m out of town at moment so can’t double-check my random collection of references.  Two in particular I seem to recall: one a photo which I’ve seen (& might have a copy?) showing the cockpit  fuselage timber work under construction;

 

 

… the other a short moment in a YouTube newsreel, a sad vision of US Navy sailors pulling in white floating (therefore timber?) debris after the crash in Baltimore.

 

Let me know if it might help you Stuart, & if so I can dig around.

 

In any case, I’m inclined to agree with your decision to blackout Moa.  For my mind it’s the spectacular outer form that will always get my attention!

 

 

Edited July 8, 2018 by greggles.w
Found the picture!

[Learstang]

Beautiful jobs on the Dayton-Wright RB-1 and the Bristol Racer, Moa! When I (re)do my Bristol Racer, I'll do it without the wire bracing, as it was intended to be fully cantilever and flew its first flight without the bracing (if my memory serves me wing flutter caused them to add the wires, but I'm sure you already know that). To me having it without the wires makes it look even more futuristic for 1922. I won't be able to use the racing number from my Arctic Decals set, however, as that number was applied later, when it had the wire bracing. If you produced a full-vacuform kit of the RB-1, you'd have at least one buyer! That is something of my Holy Grail of kits/models - the first truly modern aeroplane.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

6 hours ago, Courageous said:

That 'spoked' spinner looks a nightmare!

 

Stuart

Hi Stuart

I used available photoetched parts intended for spoke wheels, an easy solution.

 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

7 minutes ago, Learstang said:

If you produced a full-vacuform kit of the RB-1, you'd have at least one buyer! That is something of my Holy Grail of kits/models - the first truly modern aeroplane.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

You probably know that there was a "12 Squared" 1/72 model of it, long out of production, but I have seen a few built.

It's a bit rough (short run cottage industry) but promising:

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/157541-12-squared-2-13-dayton-wright-rb-1-racer

[Learstang]

I keep looking for that kit, but I can't find it anywhere. A bit rough is nothing I'm afraid of, as I've probably built more limited-run kits than mainstream kits anyway. Now if someone would come out with a kit of the Verville-Sperry R-3 in 1/72nd scale kit, I'd be happy (I know about the resin kit in 1/48th scale, which I'm tempted to buy, even though it's not the One True Scale).

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

32 minutes ago, Learstang said:

If you produced a full-vacuform kit

Jason, only once I tried, long, long ago, when I scratched the Capelis airliner:

 

 

I gave Execuform owner Mike Herrill all the wood masters, and he pulled a couple copies for me and a few other modelers.

I had no financial involvement or ties. To say that the "kit" produced was "simple" would be an understatement, but I recently saw online one of those built by (iirc) Christian Breuning exhibited at a major modeling show.

To study and design the kit was relatively easy, but I realized that to produce a kit is no walk in the park. I never tried again.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Moa
to add info

[Learstang]

Yes, Execuform was rather basic. That kit turned out very nicely, though. An interesting design and one I have not seen before. Producing such esoteric subjects is I'm certain a very low profit margin business. At one time, I had considered trying my hand at selling decals for the Spanish Civil War (this war being one of my big interests, along with Golden Age racers), but I realised that the profit, if any, would be minimal, and the effort would be great indeed. Nonetheless, I still have the decals I made for myself, and they have come in handy from time to time (they were both Republican and Nationalist).

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

8 hours ago, greggles.w said:

I am under the impression that all the white bits of the plane - including the rear fuselage containing the cockpit - were timber.  In contrast to the later S5 & 6 which were all metal & painted appropriately, I believe the inner skin was unfinished timber?  I’m out of town at moment so can’t double-check my random collection of references.  Two in particular I seem to recall: one a photo which I’ve seen (& might have a copy?) showing the cockpit  fuselage timber work under construction; the other a short moment in a YouTube newsreel, a sad vision of US Navy sailors pulling in white floating (therefore timber?) debris after the crash in Baltimore.

Greggles: absolutely, good thinking. It should be wood.

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

The left and right stab halves are separated, and holes are drilled for the wing and stab spars:

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

The kit's strut fairings are separated from their unremarkable legs, and inserts of Contrail airfoiled stock are glued-in at the proper angles:

 

The fairings are filled-up with thick cyano glue and zapped, then contoured:

 

Plan B, just in case: styrene fairing profiles of the same thickness of the Strutz brass struts are fashioned. Later a thin styrene veneer will be glued on both sides, and contoured to shape. We'll see how this trick goes:

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

One sandwich side and then the other are added:

 

Once the glue is set the streamlining will begin:

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Primer is applied:

 

And some parts are painted:

 

 

 

[Courageous]

I kit of few parts but lots of work none-the-less.

Those coolers look pretty neat. 

 

On another note. Just taken receipt of a copy of The Schneider Trophy Seaplanes and Flying Boats: Victors, Vanquished and Visions, a very interesting and useful book. And the icing on the cake was a 1/72 SOPWITH SCHNEIDER by EDUARD. 

 

Stuart

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

22 minutes ago, Courageous said:

On another note. Just taken receipt of a copy of The Schneider Trophy Seaplanes and Flying Boats: Victors, Vanquished and Visions, a very interesting and useful book. And the icing on the cake was a 1/72 SOPWITH SCHNEIDER by EDUARD. 

 

Stuart 

Indeed, Stuart.

And thanks for the heads up on the kit, I wasn't aware of it.

Cheers

[denisvanb]

Hi Moa and all,

yes, the S.4 was full wood construction, from the texts. The S.5 had wooden wings and metal fuselage, if I well remember.

I already knew the builds of Moa, that are all very impressive !!

On the Lamblin radiators, I know they are of a special construction, and rather difficult to reproduce. I did not choose the best way , I think I will rebuild the S.4 with better ones, one of these days, also to correct the fuselage shape.

I also had to make a new wing, on my model one was not very good, having a visiblely  reverse airfoil  !

I scratch built the Nieuport Sesquiplan, the predecessor on the fat Nieuport you made, but the Lamblin lobster pots I used were resin copies of the NiD29 ones of the Azur kit

P1040466 by denisvanb, on Flickr

A friend of mines made 3D models of the fat Nieuport NiD37 and of the Dayton Wright, had them 3D printed in 1/72, but is kept in remote locations with his job and I wait for him to find time and make a resin copy...

Denis

 

[Azgaron]

Very nice work so far, Moa!

 

Håkan

 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

The alternate legs are contoured and made ready:

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

A couple of small parts start the painting process:

 

The elevators are deflected downwards:

 

 

[greggles.w]

Commendable, steady progress! Nice options you have developed for the struts.  Will be interesting to see which turns out best for the job.

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Flying surfaces are united with the fuselage via spars:

[Courageous]

Starting to look the part.

 

Stuart