fatalbert Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Hello,can anyone tell me if the plans in the Warpaint book on the Hawker Hunter show the position of the rocket rails on the outer wing.I have the Sam publications book on the Hunter and the Mark Gauntlett plans unfortunately don't show their location. Many thanks Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 This may help for comparison purposes? John 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 Sadly the Warpaint book doesn't and a quick look through my reference pile doesn't yield a set of plans which shows them anywhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 6 hours ago, fatalbert said: Hello,can anyone tell me if the plans in the Warpaint book on the Hawker Hunter show the position of the rocket rails on the outer wing.I have the Sam publications book on the Hunter and the Mark Gauntlett plans unfortunately don't show their location. Many thanks Neil Hi Neil IIRC @StephenMG helped with the Datafile book, a quick search reveals it actually Mark, so will likely know. HTH 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalbert Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 Many thanks for the replies chaps 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted July 4, 2018 Share Posted July 4, 2018 I'd be somewhat cautious with the Warpaint drawings anyway, the main pylon to dogtooth position is incorrect, and there are a number of panel lines on the rear fuselage IIRC visible on one view and in different lcations on others. Not drawings really, but there was a very interesting thread (must be about four years ago) on the RP installation(s) to which Mark also contributed. Found it here - though I thought there was another one in which I also posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalbert Posted July 4, 2018 Author Share Posted July 4, 2018 Thanks Tempestfan,I had forgotten about that thread,shame about the warpaint plans,do you know if they are the same as the old aviation news plans,I know they have sourced those on other warpaint publications.The position of the rocket attachment on the hawker hunter seems to be devilishly hard to pin point.I have an old Airfix F6 Hunter that has holes for the rocket positions and I was considering transferring those over to the Revell wing,but am loath to trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 (edited) I don‘t know who did the AvNews drawings, but am quite certain those for the Warpaint (by David Howley) were done for the book. Aeromodeller/SMi also had a set, not sure they are of use. Aeroguide perhaps? Though slim chance only, covering mainly the 9. Edit: There's also the book by FRancis Mason, who also illustrated it (though not with "proper" scale drawings as in Typhoon/Tempest or Tornado). Will have a look... lots of research appointments for this evening 😉 Edited July 5, 2018 by tempestfan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted July 6, 2018 Share Posted July 6, 2018 Hi all, Sorry, I missed this thread until now. Each RP rail was mounted on a pair of 'eyes' on the lower surface of the wing. Each of these eyes was on the end of a tubular mounting post which passed right through the wing with visible 'pads' on the top surface of the wing. It's tricky but the easiest way to locate the RP rail position is to look for the position of the posts on the top of the wing - far more visible in photos than the undersides. I've attached a photo which shows where they are - I've highlighted the pairs of posts in red and a couple of handy panel lines in yellow as reference points. RP station B should be easy to locate anyway as it's where the outboard pylon is - you either fit the RP rail directly to the wing or fit the pylon and use an adaptor to mount the RP rail to the pylon instead. Hope that helps. Mark 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalbert Posted July 6, 2018 Author Share Posted July 6, 2018 Oh wow Thank you Mark,thats a brilliant picture and explanation.It looks like the set where the pylon goes is set back a little. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 @fatalbert thanks to @StephenMG I now know what I was looking for, so looked again and found this in the repair AP. John 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalbert Posted July 7, 2018 Author Share Posted July 7, 2018 This is why I love brit modeller,Thank you so much that is just the ticket ☺ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, fatalbert said: This is why I love brit modeller,Thank you so much that is just the ticket ☺ No problems, it's good when you can find something that does the trick. John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 @fatalbert it would be intetesting to know how the published plans match up to the drawing from the AP. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 AP drawings are notorious so I wouldn't rely on them - read on to see why! The LIDAR images that Airfix recently published are interesting though so I thought I'd compare my SAM Modeller's Datafile plans with Airfix' LIDAR images. This is the side view, I haven't distorted my plans at all, just scaled them to the same as the Airfix image. Overall I'm happy with it shapewise, although I may have drawn the rear fuselage a little full and some of the panel lines may not be perfectly placed. I'm less happy with the plan view however. This is a comparison with Airfix' graphical render which I'm assuming is based on their LIDAR work and therefore accurate, I have the tailplanes much too broad at their outer ends due to too much sweep-back on their trailing edges. Because of the difficulty in measuring them myself I (stupidly it now turns out) relied on some original Hawker GA drawings for the general shape. This shows how inaccurate those drawings can be ☹️. Bit gutted. Also I have the ailerons a touch too long which is also pushing out some of the panel lines. And the rear fuse a bit too 'portly' as above. Considering I drew these 10 years ago now with only the aid of a good old fashioned tape measure and Mk.1 eye-ball, they're not too bad (I suppose). I can't live with that tailplane (or the ailerons) though so will be re-drawing the whole plan view. Mark 5 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatalbert Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 That is a good point Mark,I have tried something similar with drawings from a C130 manual with mixed results,but that Hunter wing drawing looks far better than the ones I was playing with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 I agree regarding the GA drawings in AP's/T.O.'s but I've found with the more technical ones such as the repair and reconditioning ones where accurat reference to the position and lay out of structurs is needed they tend to be good. I can't verify any of the details for the Hunter but for the Canberra they have proved invaluable. It would be interesting to compare it with the Airfix rendition of the Hunter wing. John 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprtt Posted October 31, 2020 Share Posted October 31, 2020 On 7/6/2018 at 9:53 AM, StephenMG said: Hi all, Sorry, I missed this thread until now. Each RP rail was mounted on a pair of 'eyes' on the lower surface of the wing. Each of these eyes was on the end of a tubular mounting post which passed right through the wing with visible 'pads' on the top surface of the wing. It's tricky but the easiest way to locate the RP rail position is to look for the position of the posts on the top of the wing - far more visible in photos than the undersides. I've attached a photo which shows where they are - I've highlighted the pairs of posts in red and a couple of handy panel lines in yellow as reference points. RP station B should be easy to locate anyway as it's where the outboard pylon is - you either fit the RP rail directly to the wing or fit the pylon and use an adaptor to mount the RP rail to the pylon instead. Hope that helps. Mark I’ve been trying to find out if the outer pylons were fitted along with RP rails A,C and D. If so could the RPs and other types of ordnance be carried together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 On 10/31/2020 at 9:13 PM, Sprtt said: I’ve been trying to find out if the outer pylons were fitted along with RP rails A,C and D. If so could the RPs and other types of ordnance be carried together? Yes, the outer pylon could be fitted along with RP rails but it gets complicated depending on what you want to carry! RPs could be added and removed as required up to a maximum of 3 per station (see below for complications though!) . The 4 wing stations were identified as A to D (outboard to inboard). At station B (where the outer pylon is) they were either added in place of the pylon, or suspended on an adaptor rail fitted to the pylon. Mostly though, if the pylon was left in place, it seems only station A, C and D were used. Attached is a scan from the "Armaments Notes for Pilots" which shows valid combinations of stores, although it is simplified slightly. Interestingly, the same manual says that 60lb heads could be carried as a maximum of 2 in a tier which seems to be at odds with the scan that canberra kid posted previously. Anyway, it gets more complicated if carrying tanks as well as RPs. If carrying 100 gallon tanks on the outer pylon the actual number of RPs allowed depends on whether you planned on retaining the tanks or jettisoning them. If they could be jettisoned (which had to be done before firing the RPs) then 6 (3 on each station D - the innermost RP station) or 8 (one on each station A and C and 2 on each station D) could be carried. If tanks were not to be jettisoned (which means firing the RPs with the tanks still on the pylons) then only 4 RPs could be carried - 2 on each station D. Sorry, I'm not sure if that helps or not!!! 🤣 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Does anyone have a link to the LIDAR images referred to in StephenMG's post above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenMG Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Space Ranger said: Does anyone have a link to the LIDAR images referred to in StephenMG's post above? This where I got them from - https://www.airfix.com/uk-en/news/workbench/new-tooling-announcement-to-start-raf-centenary-year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc72 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 This makes me almost nostalgic. I spent quite some time to figure out where these damned rocket rails were located exactly. The rocket rails were standard on the FGA.9s when they were still used as a frontline aircraft. Nevertheless, I couldn't find any drawings that include their location. I wish I had the photos and drawings you provided in this thread. After looking over countless photos, this is what I came up with (no guarantee for accuracy!!!!): The kit is Revell (1/72) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprtt Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 11/3/2020 at 5:06 PM, StephenMG said: Yes, the outer pylon could be fitted along with RP rails but it gets complicated depending on what you want to carry! RPs could be added and removed as required up to a maximum of 3 per station (see below for complications though!) . The 4 wing stations were identified as A to D (outboard to inboard). At station B (where the outer pylon is) they were either added in place of the pylon, or suspended on an adaptor rail fitted to the pylon. Mostly though, if the pylon was left in place, it seems only station A, C and D were used. Attached is a scan from the "Armaments Notes for Pilots" which shows valid combinations of stores, although it is simplified slightly. Interestingly, the same manual says that 60lb heads could be carried as a maximum of 2 in a tier which seems to be at odds with the scan that canberra kid posted previously. Anyway, it gets more complicated if carrying tanks as well as RPs. If carrying 100 gallon tanks on the outer pylon the actual number of RPs allowed depends on whether you planned on retaining the tanks or jettisoning them. If they could be jettisoned (which had to be done before firing the RPs) then 6 (3 on each station D - the innermost RP station) or 8 (one on each station A and C and 2 on each station D) could be carried. If tanks were not to be jettisoned (which means firing the RPs with the tanks still on the pylons) then only 4 RPs could be carried - 2 on each station D. Sorry, I'm not sure if that helps or not!!! 🤣 Thank you very much for this info! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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