Trouble with new Aztek A470 Airbrush

[Brad-M]

Swearing removed 

[Graeme H]

I have one of these as my main airbrush, and still love it,

when you say that it is leaking when you remove the cup, is there still paint in the cup?

I take it this is different to what your old one did, can you explain a little more about it, and what problems it is causing

I wouldn't worry about paint getting over the outside of the airbrush, mine has always done that, I just wipe it off

 

 

 

 

[Brad-M]

Hi,

 

You know how the airbrush is split in half, and there is a seam that runs down the upper and lower center of the airbrush? Paint some how is getting blown back into the airbrush and then seeps through these seams out side the airbrush leaking all over the place. This is doing the same thing with every new airbrush Testors sends me. I then picked up two brand new replacement airbrushes in a trade from someone and they do the same thing, so it's not me. I do have another one which is older that I have had for 12 years and it works fine, no leaks, but the trigger is not as responsive as the newer ones.

 

Brad

[Graeme H]

Hard to understand that,

I'm not sure if you have seen one broken down

 

DSCF6221 by qfa_tsv, on Flickr

 

This is where the paint and air get mixed, should all be internal

 

DSCF6232 by qfa_tsv, on Flickr

 

DSCF6234 by qfa_tsv, on Flickr

 

Something that is very hard (impossible for me) to photograph is there is a hole at the very bottom of the inside when you look down from the front without a nozzle in, if that makes any sense

it brings in air, and if that becomes blocked it causes all sorts of problems, hard to believe that could be the cause though on something that is new unless they have done something in the set up

 

I usually use a bit of fine but stiff copper wire to clear that out while having the compressor blowing air through it

The paint shouldn't get into the body part of the airbrush, it should remain in the black part and do an internal mix with the air, as you can see the tube where the cup and plug go is straight across and the only external part for paint to go in or out except the nozzle

[Brad-M]

Well, the only way I will know is if I open one of the airbrushes up right after an a paint session. What is a head scratcher for me, is the 3 new ones leak paint inside, but the old one I have does not.

 

Thanks

Brad

[jenko]

I had one of these for over 10 years. Had to send it back a couple of times and got a new one as a replacement. It got to the stage where I was soaking it in neat Acetone to clean it out  as it kept getting clogged up.

 

Went out and bought a Harder and Steenbeck  Infinity 2in1.... It was like going from a Model T to the top of the range Rolls Royce. I can do painting now that I could only dream of with the Aztec.

 

Dick

[Brad-M]

So I opened one of my new ones up and there is dried paint along the black piece up front and along the seams. The two holes on either side which has the cup and the spare pin for the other side, if you look through the holes, there is another hole in the bottom, I assume that is where the paint goes down into, correct? I have my cup on the right side of the airbrush, leaving the left side hole closed by the other black pin. How much of the bottom hole gets blocked by the cup and the pin, if any? 

 

Brad

[Scooby]

Brad, I just bought a new A470, no problems so far. They are on clearance at Michaels for $60.00.

 

My original has a broken trigger, I contacted Testors and they haven’t replied, I bought that one with the Lifetime Warranty. I 9bly contacted them through their website, I can’t find an email address.

[Brad-M]

Gary, I searched on Michael's site and couldn't find anything regarding the A470. I am in Winnipeg visiting at the moment so will check. 

Thanks

Brad

[Brad-M]

Found a few here in Winnipeg for $49, thanks for the heads up Gary.

Brad

[Scooby]

On 7/7/2018 at 8:34 AM, Brad-M said:

Gary, I searched on Michael's site and couldn't find anything regarding the A470. I am in Winnipeg visiting at the moment so will check. 

Thanks

Brad

Sorry, only noticed your reply now.

 

The information isn’t online, Michaels doesn’t even show it as an item they stock. You can find them in the clearance cages at the front of the store.

[Scooby]

On 7/7/2018 at 10:33 PM, Brad-M said:

Found a few here in Winnipeg for $49, thanks for the heads up Gary.

Brad

I replied to your previous reply before I saw this one, cheaper in Manitoba but higher taxes I guess.

[JPuente54]

@Scooby, I went on to the Testors website; and, clicked on the "Contact Us". I was shocked when I saw the physical address to send 'actual' mail. I drive by it to and from my job! It is maybe a couple of blocks from my place of employment. It is the Rust-O-Leum headquarters. Either they bought Testors; or, Testors bought them. See if you can find the email address for Rust-O-Leum.

[Bobk]

I'm reposting this from a previous post on this category'

 

The Aztek double action airbrush are one of the most divisive, anger generating subjects that modelers talk about. Love it or hate it, just remember it's a tool and as such it takes practice and patience to come close to mastering the use of this tool, it also takes an understanding of the design of the tool. I don't know the design history of the Aztek line of airbrushes but I think they wanted to rethink airbrush design and did a fine job of it. I think the mindset of the designers was to design an airbrush that was easy to use by anyone, even those who had no experience. They threw away the rule book, think "Apple" of airbrushes. As such it has to be handled differently than traditional, old school airbrushes and I think that is the only place where Testors / Kodak dropped the ball. They took all the technical words out of the manual and replaced them with pictures which did make it easier for the complete novice to understand how to use it. That was fine as far as it goes but it also put off the traditional airbrush user and contributed to the feeling that this was a toy and not a "true" airbrush. Also it fostered a feeling that it was a poor design. I picked one up maybe a year after they first came out and was happy with it, and that is with several other traditional double action brushes in my possession. The ease of cleaning and the super cleaning station along with the performance was very handy for me.

Well it has only recently that I read a letter from Testors that was sent to a user that spelt out, in words, the design and "correct" way to use the Aztek. Several important points showed up in the letter.

1. Never use the "Blow Back" or "Reverse Flow" method, where the airbrush nozzle is covered and a shot of air is used and forced back into the reservoir to help mix paint or clean the airbrush. This seems to be the main problem with the way traditional airbrush users, for the lack of a better word foul up an Aztek airbrush. Almost from the time that the airbrush was invented this was the gospel way to mix paint and clean the metal bodied "traditional" brush. When a traditional brush user does this it forces paint and cleaning fluid past the "needle seal" in an Aztek airbrush. The paint and cleaning fluid then evaporates and leave a gummy residue on that needle to the point that it will freeze up the needle control and people will force the finger trigger which causes .........

2. The plastic connection in the trigger to break. It's part of the design of the Aztek airbrush to use the easiest to manufacture pieces to bring down the price of the brush. It works as long as you stay in the parameters of the brush. In the 3000s version of the Aztek that connection isn't plastic and is a slightly better, stronger metal piece. There are several online forums that show you how to clean up a gummed up needle control and how to PREVENT it from happening. So if your trigger freezes up DO NOT FORCE IT!! There is a very good post on the Aircraft Resources forum that will walk you through how to free up the needle and repair that problem if your trigger freezes up. Again this points out another difference between a "traditional" airbrush from the Aztek brush. If this happens with a traditional airbrush you just immerse the metal body in the cleaning fluid of your choice and "work" the piece until it comes free, can't do that with an Aztek because it is built to close tolerances when it comes to "forcing" a part. And a traditional airbrush user will, just out of habit, use a force that is ok to use on a metal brush.

3. Speaking of immersing the brush in your favorite cleaning fluid..... can't do that with an Aztek. Due to the design of the Aztek brush it depends on the air tube in the body of the brush to stay pliable so that the trigger will be able to shut off the air when you release the trigger. When the Aztek is immersed in cleaning fluids much past the metal ferrule in a "hot" cleaning fluid it will affect the plasticizers in that air tube and will cause it to deteriorate and eventually fail. But then again there really is no need to dunk the whole body of the Aztek and drowned it in any cleaning fluids unless, and it's a big unless, you have not read the first point that I wrote about and have been "back flushing" your brush. A traditional metal bodied airbrush will gladly be immersed in a bath of cleaning fluids with little or no problem as long as rubber o seals are taken into account. So a traditional airbrush user will out of habit cause problems for himself by over use of cleaning fluids on the body of an Aztek air brush..

4. Just like a traditional air brush you still have to make adjustments to the nozzle control before you spray paint, sometimes with a Mac valve or positioning the needle in the chuck, etc, etc...... With an Aztek the best way to adjust the needle to with the ferruled wheel. With a traditional you can adjust the brush so that with the first pull of the trigger all you will get is air, but with an Aztek it is usual for the nozzle to be set where with the first pull of the trigger you will get paint and air so you have to adjust the ferruled wheel to stop the paint flow.

5. The nozzles can be soaked in cleaning fluids, hot or not. And they can be taken apart and "deep" cleaned but that is not recommended by Testors. I confess I have done it, but not often maybe twice a year or when the nozzles give me problems. The recommended cleaning procedure in this letter is to soak them in Acetone or the appropriate cleaning fluid for no more than 10 minutes but I have left them in overnight - ish. There are several forum posts that will walk you through the process of "deep" cleaning the nozzles.

6. I have only the plastic or resin bodied Aztek air brushes, but I think this also applies to the metal bodied Azteks too because the internals are the same only the outside has changed not the internal workings.

So I think, and I only think, that most of the problems that people have with the Aztek air brush is the fact that they, out of habit, treat the Aztek as a traditional metal bodied old school air brush. Rather than using it as an Aztek air brush. It's not a problem of the user, it seems to be a problem of communication from Testors. It boils down to a matter of taste, like do you prefer a PC or an Apple 'puter? They both work well but they are very different and I think it's the same with the Aztek line of air brushes. In their haste to make an air brush for the masses they forgot to tell the traditionalists that it needs to be handled a little different. I use my Aztek for mostly acrylic paints and have not used much in the way of "hot" solvents or cleaning fluids on it and it works for me.

 

 

I'm also posting this to give you an idea,

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5C9XRo6Qv0

 

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

Only my experience is going to be described, just to add some material to the exchange, as a sort of testimony more than anything else.

Firstly I think that what what was posted immediately above pretty much sums all the issues and it is wonderfully worded and it is very helpful.

I have had Aztek airbrushes for far more than 20 years now. May be four of them so far, all the same type, the common double action with the plastic body.

All the models that have been posting here (may be 50), and other at least 300 more since I started to use the Aztek, have been finished with it, using acrylics, enamels and lacquers of all conceivable brands.

I am sad to confess that until a couple years ago I used to stupidly "backfire" it to clean it, causing the problems described above, and leading to many disassemblings and cleanings sessions.

Mostly, I like it. It's easy to use and easy to clean and inexpensive, and frees a lot of time to do what I want: modeling, not dealing with the airbrush.

I returned them for service twice (one time each of the two I have now). The first time I got a great replacement, the second time I got what it looked (and sadly behaved) as a refurbished one. This refurbished one will intermittently fail causing havoc and ruining a few sessions an finishes (and my temper). The other one is, most of the time, ok. BOTH, in spite of not doing the "backfire" trick ever again, leak inside, quite a bit. May be it's wearing of the more sensitive parts.

For reasons that are unfathomable to me, after happily painting several models, and generally in the middle of a session, things will get bad, and instead of having a leveled, shinny, smooth coat, it will be a dull, pebbly, or spotty coat. Change of nozzles, other dilutions and/or other tricks won't work. I never understand why. I have a moisture trap and a good and a trouble-less regulator. May be it's the stars. Or the political climate. I once had a Paasche and another brand I don't recall. I didn't like them as much as I do like my Azteks, but they can be, some times a pain in the tin can. I wish I knew why.

I found this thread because today it happened again. I painted several parts without a hitch, with several changes of color, and then loaded Humbrol 3 gloss green enamel for my DH88, a color that I have used before very satisfyingly, and disaster stroke again. Same tin, same ratio, same pressure. I noticed the coat wasn't smooth and gloss, so I played with the dilution to no avail, same results, and, very stupidly, kept going. Now I have a strange DH88 in a delightful new color "pinholed green". The model is covered in very tiny pinholes, as if minute bubbles of air were being mixed with the color. At this point I will beg you not to speculate on why or what or how. I can speculate myself. But if you have the precise, infallible answer, I am all ears.

Summarizing: I do like my Aztek airbrushes a lot, and man that I have squeezed life out of them,  but some times...some times....

 

 

 

 

[Rob G]

All of which reinforces what I've said both here and on other forums about these things- great when they work, unusable and unfathomable when they don't. When an Aztek stops doing its job, there's nothing for it but to clean it, put it away and start using a real airbrush until you feel up to the challenge of trying again.

 

Frankly, the hassle of the intermittent failure mode (and the attendant tidy up of a bungled paint job) well outweighs the small time penalty involved in cleaning a traditional airbrush. My (2nd, replaced under warranty) Aztek has been relegated to a lower drawer for 15-odd years. I don't miss it, and I can't think of anyone I despise enough to give it to.

[fjaweijfopi4j48]

31 minutes ago, Rob G said:

All of which reinforces what I've said both here and on other forums about these things- great when they work, unusable and unfathomable when they don't. When an Aztek stops doing its job, there's nothing for it but to clean it, put it away and start using a real airbrush until you feel up to the challenge of trying again.

 

Frankly, the hassle of the intermittent failure mode (and the attendant tidy up of a bungled paint job) well outweighs the small time penalty involved in cleaning a traditional airbrush. My (2nd, replaced under warranty) Aztek has been relegated to a lower drawer for 15-odd years. I don't miss it, and I can't think of anyone I despise enough to give it to.

My conclusion is different: since i have tried other airbrushes and occasionally had trouble with them too, I can't seriously think of an airbrush trouble-free modeling universe, so I keep using my Azteks, but surely have to learn to stop when i see trouble looming, instead of insisting. Should get out my second one or simply give it a rest until the stars align again.

In my personal case, the simplicity and easiness of the Aztek service outweighs the hassle, cost and time spent on other airbrushes, since None is trouble-free.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Moa

[Rob G]

Both my single action Paasche and double action Iwata brushes have been trouble-free unless it's something that I've done (bent needles and/or improper cleaning, the first avoidable with care, the second by spending an extra minute doing it properly). I've never had to buy a part for either, and neither has mysteriously 'failed to work' for no apparent reason. When there's been an issue, the cause has been logical and fixable (ie I buggered something up). If your Azteks work for you (which they don't, on your own admission), feel free to keep on using them. Having to stop the job and change tools would annoy the ever-lovin' crap outta me- they're tools, not astrological devices, and they should just work, not be reliant on the moon's phase or the spirit's whim.

 

I'd rather have issues with something fixable than issues with a mysterious sealed system (I've had my 470 to pieces numerous times, there's no reason why it shouldn't work, it just sometimes... doesn't.)

Strokes for folks, I guess. Enjoy your hobby!