Airfix Heinkel He 111 H6 colour scheme

[TheCore2030]

Hi everyone.

 

I have recently started building the Heinkel He 111 H6 by Airfix, and have now reached the stage to paint the camouflage pattern. I recently watched the film 'Dunkirk', and the colours on the Heinkel there look really nice to me, so googled it and found this image:

 

 

I know a scale model was used in filming, and i dug up these images as well, which may give a better view:

 

 

 

Can someone please have a rough guess at what these colours are? I would prefer answers in the revell email colour spectrum, as i mostly paint in with these, but humbrol would be fine too. I have done a little research, and i think people say the closest equivalents are RLM 70 and RLM 71, but different paint converters give different conversions, and im finding it hard to decode what is the closest colours to RLM 70 and 71. For example, The Ultimate Model Paint Conversion Chart puts RLM 70 as greenish grey matt (67) and RLM 71 as bronze green matt (65) (both in revell colours), but others say RLM 70 is black green (40), and RLM 71 is dark green (39). Do you think that those are close representations of the colour of the plane? If not, i would really appreciate it if you give your opinions on what is the closest approximation to these colours. Im not too bothered about historical accuracy and the like, so feel free to give complete opinions!

 

Many thanks,

TheCore2030

 

[FatFlyHalf]

You may find this useful, but it's a bit light on Revell references:

 

http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/urbans-color-reference-charts-part-i/urbans-colour-reference-charts-germany/

 

The names given to the same or similar colour by the various manufacturers isn't always of much help, hence the more 'scientific' colour codes and standards.

 

[TheCore2030]

ok, thanks, thats very useful. But could you please have a guess at the colours of the plane in the image? Im specifically trying to get those colours, not the historically-accurate colours that were used. Sorry about being so picky!

[Ed Russell]

Probably something out of the Dulux house paint catalogue.

[FatFlyHalf]

Just go with RLM 65 70 and 71 or the closest match available to you.  That's probably what the flying model builders did.

They look like that to me from these pictures, but every computer monitor gives a slightly different cast.

 

You'll not go far wrong with the above option, but despite our Australian friends suggestion, I don't think Dulux actually do tins of Dunkelgrun, Schwartzgrun or Hellblau.

Edited June 29, 2018 by FatFlyHalf
speling

[TheCore2030]

Ha ha, yh, I guessed (tho i did fall for it the first time... ) Ill go with you suggestion then. I heard Humbrol released a dedicated RLM range, but would you, as an experienced modeller, recommend them as being close to the original colours used in the German airforce? Or should i just go with the original suggestion and use the Revell greenish grey/ bronze green or dark green/ black green?

 

Thanks so much for helping me out, I'm really a newbie with all these different paints and manufacturers!

[Chuck1945]

2 hours ago, FatFlyHalf said:

... despite our Australian friends suggestion, I don't think Dulux actually do tins of Dunkelgrun, Schwartzgrun or Hellblau.

Not with those names perhaps, but if Sherwin_Williams is any example, I bet something close to colors RLM 65, 70, and 71 are available with fancier names, a la Antique Green or Sunshine Blue

 

Our previous house was reasonably close to overall MSG with OG trim. My wife balked at the upper floor exterior in DG/OG  even if the color names were different

[Ed Russell]

Although my comment was semi-disparaging of the film, it's based in reality. No props guy who wants to keep working is going to use 900 tinlets of Humbrol or Colourcoats. Therefore they either get something specially mixed or look for a close-enough substitute. The only way to find out what exactly what they used is to contact people from the second unit of Dunkirk and ask them. They are listed in the credits and probably won't remember. "Ahh, it were some sorta dull greeny color and underneath it was gray, nah, maybe blue".

However you could use common sense. Dulux do in fact make RAL colours and there are close approximates to RLM colours in this range. Here's a chart of Dulux to RAL equivalents

https://www.brewers.co.uk/colourcards/dulux-trade/RAL+Colours?page=6

7022 and 6020 are what you want. if you don't like Dulux, here's another brand you can get in the UK.

https://martinbrownpaints.com/ral-6020-paint

https://martinbrownpaints.com/ral-7022-paint

Although I am sure this is what they would have used, this is all a pointless academic exercise. Just do a bit of research on this site, find the model colour range that appeals to you and get 70, 71 and 65. As to their accuracy, you will find different opinions. In general the variation of paint colours on aircraft of the period is not huge when they are new. However after some exposure to the elements, the variation is probably greater than the variation in one model paint range to another, within reason. So if you see a review comparing them, consider it carefully but don't treat it as gospel. Post your model in RFI when you have done it.

When I say semi-disparaging, let me say I thought the accuracy of the physical objects used in the film was acceptable in terms of what they were doing. To my mind, it did however, have serious other faults discussed elsewhere on this forum.

[TheCore2030]

Ok, thanks Ed. I think that closes the topic then, thank you guys so much for the help. I know it wasnt that interesting, and extremely useless, but oh well.... Noobs get forgiven right? 😜 By the way what is RFI?

[stevehnz]

Fwiw, the Humbrol shades for RLM 70 & 71 don't have the same contrast as the shades used on the movie Heinkel do. I believe that the Sovereign Colourcoats range shade for the same colours have greater contrast but if you already have them, then Humbrol 242, RLM71with a little (10-15%) of the Humbrol 240 RLM02 will give a satisfactory contrast without appearing too overdone.

Steve.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

14 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

Fwiw, the Humbrol shades for RLM 70 & 71 don't have the same contrast as the shades used on the movie Heinkel do. I believe that the Sovereign Colourcoats range shade for the same colours have greater contrast but if you already have them, then Humbrol 242, RLM71with a little (10-15%) of the Humbrol 240 RLM02 will give a satisfactory contrast without appearing too overdone.

Steve.

Hi Steve, our paints are matched to Merrick and Kiroff and the contrast tonally between them is very low

 

P.S. if anyone is building a very large movie prop or even a fullsize restoration, email us and you can have it by the 1 litre, 2.5 litre or 5 litre. You can even have it as a 2-pack 😀

[TheCore2030]

So, the instructions from the experts are: use RLM 70 from the humbrol RLM range and RLM 71 + a little RLM 02 also from the humbrol RLM range (Or should all colours be from the normal range?) Or use the RLM 70/ 71 from Sovereign Colourcoat.

 

Thanks guys for all the help, been really informative.

 

P.S. that stuka looks AMAZING 👌

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

TBH the movie prop Heinkel's lighter green looks lighter and perhaps slightly bluer than our RLM71, so if it's that you're trying to recreate our's probably isn't the right move

[Seawinder]

I have nothing against Colourcoats besides their being harder to obtain where I live than Mr. Color acrylic lacquers, which are stocked by my LHS. That being said, I think the Mr. Color renditions of 70 and 71 are very good.

[Ed Russell]

RFI is shorthand for the Ready For Inspection forum on this board. You post some pictures of your completed model there and we can admire it.

I think Jamie's advice is pretty good about colours. The contrast on the movie model does seem greater than in most contemporary pictures.

[stevehnz]

11 hours ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

Hi Steve, our paints are matched to Merrick and Kiroff and the contrast tonally between them is very low

I appreciate that Jamie, but there is still slightly more contrast between the Kiroff/Colourcoats 70 & 71 than the Humbrol equivalents, in the tins I have anyway, which to my eye made your colours a better bet for the OP than using the Humbrol colours.

Steve.

[MigModeller]

The online retailer of Colourcoats, I found, require a minimum of six tins.  I had to think about future projects for colours I might use.

[stevehnz]

I can only get Colourcoats through Australia. In my case its a balancing act between how many I can afford against how many I need to defray shipping costs on a per tinlet basis. About 8 tins seems to be the magic number, 9 or 10 would be better, I could easily double that though.

Steve.

[MikeR]

On 6/28/2018 at 6:54 PM, TheCore2030 said:

I heard Humbrol released a dedicated RLM range, but would you, as an experienced modeller, recommend them as being close to the original colours used in the German airforce?

 

I can't comment on the Humbrol paints accuracy of colour, but they seem OK to me. What I can comment on is how easy they are to use! The enamels are a pain in the rear end when new, extremely thin/ translucent and require a fair few coats to get a good colour density. However they appear to improve with age as the thinners are used up leaving a better ratio of the colour pigment to carrier, if that makes sense! The acrylics are much better though I have noticed that they aren't quite the same colour as their enamel equivalents. Humbrol acrylics do tend to be a bit thick in comparison to Revell's ones, though.

 

Mike.

Edited July 5, 2018 by MikeR

[sapperastro]

Since you use enamel, I would either go for Revell black green, Revell bronze green with Revell light blue undersides, or get the colourcoats enamels for a more authentic look (RLM 70/71 on top with RLM 65 on bottom). Either way you will have enamels that work better than the Humbrol Luftwaffe range.

Edited July 7, 2018 by sapperastro

[MIkeMaben]

 

Also remember that the color your eye perceives depends on

the light that it reflects. Not all light sources are equal.  🤓

 

 

[TheCore2030]

18 hours ago, sapperastro said:

Since you use enamel, I would either go for Revell black green, Revell bronze green with Revell light blue undersides, or get the colourcoats enamels for a more authentic look (RLM 70/71 on top with RLM 65 on bottom). Either way you will have enamels that work better than the Humbrol Luftwaffe range.

I had those colours, but they looked very green when in i used them on a previous build. Ive done the painting now, and i ended up using the humbrol 241/242 (after some major spillage disasters) with revell light blue on the underside. Doesnt look too bad. Ill post an image, when im done, on that RFI forum that ED mentioned. Hope you guys enjoy it!

[sapperastro]

Haha, by spilling some the Humbrol luftwaffe enamels, you may have helped them. I tipped the carrier fluid out when the paint was settled, and had a much better experience with them. Looking forward to seeing your aircraft.

[degsye39]

On 08/07/2018 at 23:02, sapperastro said:

Haha, by spilling some the Humbrol luftwaffe enamels, you may have helped them. I tipped the carrier fluid out when the paint was settled, and had a much better experience with them. Looking forward to seeing your aircraft.

Going to try this with my translucent RLM shades.. good shout! 🤔 

[tempestfan]

BTW, a H-6 would be inappropriate for Dunkirk, I think. The differences aren’t that major, and I haven’t yet opened any of my Airfix He‘s so am not aware what alternatives the kit has. However, be sure not to use the shorter A-Stand for the MG FF as I think it wasn’t yet in use at the time, but the one which is more or less fully hemispherical. If both are supplied, that is...This will be a relatively visible aspect - I can’t really make out whether the film model has the bulbous one.