Airspeed Oxford RNZAF

[Magua87]

Hi, BMers.

 

I'm hoping to tap into some collective knowledge on the Airspeed Oxford. 

 

I'm interested in representing NZ1318. Seen below in markings for No.1 Beam Approach Training Flight. According to ADF serials and this page 1318 was a Mk1. However, for a Mk.1 it's missing a turret. I presume it was removed as unnecessary for the Beam Flight. 

 

My questions are:

Is the Mk2 identical to the Mk1 excluding the removed turret? If so I could use the Tasman Mk2 kit to represent 1318. 

Secondly, I would have thought this was a black and yellow colour scheme, but looking at Special Hobby's Airspeed Oxford "Commonwealth Service" I'm likely looking at another red and yellow airframe? See airframe 1376 in the linked SH instruction sheet. Can any keen eyes confirm? It seems to have stripes on the underside of the starboard wing, but perhaps not on the port wing (see this link - half way down the page). However, at the time those photos were taken the aircraft was an instructional airframe, which probably explains the discrepancy?  

 

Now that I've typed all this out I could just build a kit based on the SH instructions. Still, I'm curious about the Mk1 and Mk2 differences. 

 

 

[Graham Boak]

Not all Mk.Is were fitted with turrets so it may never have had one. Effectively the Mk.I and Mk.II were externally identical, bar the turret.  Internal fit varied with role, I would assume, particularly for navigator training.

 

I made the Frog kit in this scheme long before Special Hobby, following the colour plans in Kookaburra's RNZAF: The First Decade, by Charles Darby.  This shows NZ1290 in Yellow with Red stripes.  There are two stripes on each wing, above and below, sloping inward to the rear.  One starts at the outboard side of the cowling, the other is further outboard, bisecting the roundel and ending at the trailing edge between the second and fifth aileron ribs, counting outboard.  (PS. I've since looked at the SH sheet.)  Elevators are Red, and are shown that way in a photo of NZ1321.  There is a Yellow surround on the lower wing where the roundel crosses the band.

 

However, Kookaburra does say that the Red stripes belong on aircraft of the Air Headquarters Calibration Flight at Rongotai, including NZ1290 and NZ1376.  Aircraft of 1 Beam Approach Training Fight at Wgram were Yellow with black stripes, including  NZ1327 E and NZ1318 ("later B").  These aircraft do not appear to carry the large triangle of RAF B.A.T. Flights.  I haven't seen a photo showing the codes.

 

So you can model either.  I presume that the rectangular bump under the fuselage roundel is linked to the Beam Approach.

Edited June 25, 2018 by Graham Boak

[Work In Progress]

You may also want to consider how it was painted before the stripes went on, given that quite a lot of the repaint seems to have come off the cabin above the windows.

[dogsbody]

All I have on Beam Approach Oxfords is this profile:

 

 

 

From here:

 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Aircraft-Profiles/Britain/WW2/Airspeed-Oxford-227

 

 

Chris

[larumivi1951]

Here is another one:

Rudolph

[JWM]

Beautiful Oxfords! What colourful schemes!

Cheers

J-W

[LDSModeller]

15 hours ago, Magua87 said:

Hi, BMers.

 

I'm hoping to tap into some collective knowledge on the Airspeed Oxford. 

 

I'm interested in representing NZ1318. Seen below in markings for No.1 Beam Approach Training Flight. According to ADF serials and this page 1318 was a Mk1. However, for a Mk.1 it's missing a turret. I presume it was removed as unnecessary for the Beam Flight. 

 

My questions are:

Is the Mk2 identical to the Mk1 excluding the removed turret? If so I could use the Tasman Mk2 kit to represent 1318. 

Secondly, I would have thought this was a black and yellow colour scheme, but looking at Special Hobby's Airspeed Oxford "Commonwealth Service" I'm likely looking at another red and yellow airframe? See airframe 1376 in the linked SH instruction sheet. Can any keen eyes confirm? It seems to have stripes on the underside of the starboard wing, but perhaps not on the port wing (see this link - half way down the page). However, at the time those photos were taken the aircraft was an instructional airframe, which probably explains the discrepancy?  

 

Now that I've typed all this out I could just build a kit based on the SH instructions. Still, I'm curious about the Mk1 and Mk2 differences. 

 

 

If you click on the link below, and scroll down to a post by a gent by the name Marcus (Online name Hairy) post June 17 2009

you will see some photos taken him, that would refute the Yellow/Red and its the same aircraft.

He also gives the "Black" Stripe measurements.

 

NZ1318

 

I would also question the colour profile (NZ1222) above with metal cowlings -see link below with photos of similar

aircraft (RNZAF)

 

RNZAF Oxfords

 

Regards

 

Alan

[GrahamB]

fwiw Warren Russell's book on NZPAF and RNZAF colour schemes shows this (NZ1318) as a yellow/black striped Oxford.

Cheers

GrahamB

[Graham Boak]

NZ1318 isn't claimed to be yellow and red, only NZ1290 and NZ1376.  Possibly others of the Calibration Flight at Rongotai, but I've no information on those, if any.  The Beam Approach Training Flight at Wigram are said to be yellow and black, including NZ1318.   Darby mentions both in his book.

 

Unless there is fresher information about the Calibration Flight colours, it seems that modellers do have a choice for their stripey Oxbox.

[LDSModeller]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

NZ1318 isn't claimed to be yellow and red, only NZ1290 and NZ1376.  Possibly others of the Calibration Flight at Rongotai, but I've no information on those, if any.  The Beam Approach Training Flight at Wigram are said to be yellow and black, including NZ1318.   Darby mentions both in his book.

 

Unless there is fresher information about the Calibration Flight colours, it seems that modellers do have a choice for their stripey Oxbox.

I too have the Charles Darby book The First decade.

I have met Charles and spoken to him a number of times, and seen some of his restorations.

 

There are some profiles/photo comments in his book  that have  now proven to be wrong (P 40K schemes certainly ).

His Profiles on the Calibration flight colours may be right, they could be wrong too, bear that in mind.

A quick query to the RNZAF Museum may help solve that.

 

Going back to the OP question on the colours of NZ1318, the question asked, is if it were Yellow/Red (SH reference) or 

Yellow/Black based on the photo in the link. The Photo reference was NZ1318 as an Instructional frame.

To my knowledge the RNZAF generally didn't repaint instructional frames, the aircraft were rotated out of operational service and

usually left in colours they wore. (Odd exceptions being War Prizes)

So when the photo poster states in the link, that NZ1318 was in Yellow/Black, and that was what she wore prior

to being relegated to Inst. Airframe status, then she was painted in those colours  as a Beam Approach aircraft.

 

 I have seen a number of RNZAF Instructional air frames at Hobsonville, Wigram and Woodbourne (RNZAF Bases).

[Magua87]

Thanks, all. 

 

LDS, I think there might have been some repainting of the airframe. The question is whether this was before or after the aircraft became a instructional airframe. 

 

The paint scheme matches that in the SH instructions (but black, rather than red - thanks for confirming!). You can see the black and yellow scheme stops after the port engine. I assume this was a repair job which wasn't completed or which had not yet been completed at the time the photo was taken. 

 

Looking at the photos above of the starboard side you can see the black stripes under the wing, but none on the port wing outside of the engine nacelle in the below. 

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by Magua87

[LDSModeller]

8 minutes ago, Magua87 said:

Thanks, all. 

 

LDS, I think there might have been some repainting of the airframe. The question is whether this was before or after the aircraft became a instructional airframe. 

 

The paint scheme matches that in the SH instructions (but black, rather than red - thanks for confirming!). You can see the black and yellow scheme stops after the port engine. I assume this was a repair job which wasn't completed or which had not yet been completed at the time the photo was taken. 

 

What type of "Re-Painting" are you referring to? The area under the wing?  Could been done pre or post

transfer to TTS (Technical Training School) at RNZAF Hobsonville.

 

I would suggest possibly before, as most RNZAF Inst, Airframes I have seen (post WWII) have the term INST***

stencilled on the airframe. Check Post WWII photos out this link to RNZAF Instructional Airframes, and see what I mean, and if

you scroll down to INST116, you will see NZ1318 became an Inst. Airframe Oct 1946, so at some point

should have received the stencils. Also ask your self what type of Instructional Airframe INST116/NZ1318 became?

 

RNZAF Inst. Airframes

 

As for the Special Hobby scheme, who says that is accurate also?

 

Things to think about.