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stevehnz

Bedding decals in Klear/ Future or equivalent.

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Posted (edited)

We frequently get threads about failures to get decals to perform as we'd wish & I've often posted a similar response to this post as a reply. I think it is worthy of having a thread on the subject pinned for the benefit of all who wish to learn or to refer those who post such queries to be referred to.

Klear or equivalent, henceforth refered to as KOE, is flaming brilliant for bedding decals, in my experience any decals. I've never used a Sol/Set system & never had a fail other than some stencils I hadn't glossed under properly, so gloss with your choice of floor polish, i've only ever used one coat even on the mattest of paints, when dry, do whatever you need to do to get the decal to release the paper, I dip into warm water & then set it on the table for a short while, as long as it takes for the decal to slide. Slide it onto a well wetted area of a dilute KOE solution, +/- 30 % & use a stiffish small brush to position. use the corner of a paper towel/tissue to wick away excess & either press down with said paper towel/ tissue or use a damp cotton bud/q-tip thingy to roll the decal onto the surface. If all is OK up till now, step back & wait till the KOE dries & watch it suck the decal into surface detail as it does so. No silvering & truly that painted on look. A layer of KOE over the top to seal & its ready for your favourite matt coat or whatever. IF, within a short time you spot that your decal has wandered off it's designated spot, flood a generous puddle of the KOE solution & use the small stiffish brush to carefully tease up an edge, a panel line is handy for this & allow the solution to penetrate under the decal as you lift it till you can reposition & then repeat the early steps as before. chuck away your sol/set stuff, this method just simply works, it'll even stick down decals with crappy glue or that have been left for too long in the water to float them off, hence why I don't leave mine in the water.

Steve.

Edited by stevehnz

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Interesting stuff, for those of a non-scientific bent like me is the dilution 30% Klear or 30% water? I might try this out later and see how it compares to yesterday’s attempt with Mr Mark Softer/Setter.

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Approximately, 30% water, it doesn't need to be too exact either 30-40 % is fine, so to 10 drops Klear add 3-4 drops water, give or take. ;)

Steve.

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I’ve often read your KOE for decaling theory before Steve and although I’ve never tried it, it does make sense. Having had some issues applying roundels to the wings of a few Airfix Spitfires I’m starting to think that I should definitely give this a go. The horrible thing about Micro sol (the red one) is that once applied it shrivels the decal up whilst curing.

During this ‘working’ stage I’m usually praying to everyone’s god that the next time I take a peak it’s all fixed - not often the case. I usually get there is the end but I think it’s more luck than anything else. 

 

Cheers and and thanks for posting.. Dave

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Here’s a comparison. The port decals were applied yesterday with Mr Mark Softer/Setter. The starboard ones* were applied this morning with diluted Klear as per Steve’s instructions. There’s not a lot in it but the starboard ones have definitely conformed better, for me this is a definite win for Steve - thanks for posting.

 

41634420855_c9532d884b_b.jpg

41634420805_66e278c164_b.jpg

 

 

*ignore the damage to the number 10 on the starboard side - that was me with an X-Acto blade whilst cutting the decal out.

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I've never used this method, seems interesting. I usually find that the decal problems I encounter are either due to poor, or old decals. Most times I'll simply replace them with good decals and the problem goes away..

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10 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

I’ve often read your KOE for decaling theory before Steve and although I’ve never tried it, it does make sense. 

Try it, you'll like Dave, I haven't done a full kit with it yet but some test bits I did confirmed reports I'd seen that Pascoes Long Life self shining floor polish does OK too, Bunnings sell the stuff.

Steve.

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Posted (edited)

When my Hurricane gets ( if ever ) to the decaling stage, I'll be trying this method out.

 

 

Chris

Edited by dogsbody

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Wish I'd tried this idea on my MikroMir Tu G-1 !!

 

 

Tight corrugations in wings and fuselage [tighter than on the Tante Ju] and decals the consistency of lino, despite buckets of warm soapy water followed by Microset/sol, virtually ensured the decals would not bed down.....and I wasn't disappointed !

 

Some of the worst silvering I've ever experienced on a model !

 

Always reckon decals [and transparencies] are the makings of an aircraft model....... and they've made this model.......s$$t !

 

Oh well, too late to do anything about it now, the decals are well sealed with varnish, and any attempt to re-do will end in further disaster.

 

Write it off to experience and bookmark your great tip, Steve.

 

Rog

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I've got to admit Rog that a Tante Ju is one I haven't tried  & depending on the decals, it might be the bridge to far for this method, but I think once placed, some working into the grrooves from the centre with a damp cotton bud, maybe with warm to hottish water and some KOE run into the grooves as you do this would drag them into place. worst case scenario is they would split along the ridges but no decals are that inelastic, are they? :unsure::D

Steve.

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Thanks for the post, Steve. I shall be trying it when I reach my next decaling stage. I am a little fed up with paying through the nose for the likes of Micro Sol, Decal Fix etc, and sometimes having very mediocre results.

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Ahhhhh the answer to my biggest aircraft modelling problem..... Thanks for sharing...  Now just need to improve my canopy painting....

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I tried to ‘float’ decals into place with Kleer once before and it left a raised ring of dried Kleer around the edge of the decal. I didn’t dilute it though so is that likely to have caused the ring?

 

Duncan B

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Possibly so Duncan,n I've not tried it with undiluted Klear, when I read about this, maybe on ARC or Finescale modeller I think, it was quite a few years ago now, the discussion mentioned that undiluted Klear grabbed too quick & some dilution gave more working time. I guess too, the act of rolling the decal down with a q-tip to remove excess from beneath the decal aids the leveling by removing excess from around it too. I like to wick excess away with the corner of a tissue or paper towel 1st then as the decal settles in the right position roll it from the middle out wards with a damp q-tip. Starting rolling while there is too much solution under it can easily cause it to move, but its not hard to repostion with a small brush.

Steve.

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10 minutes ago, Hairtrigger said:

I can't get Pledge only Cif.....   Will this do?   Cheers...😃

Get some Lakeland Quickshine instead. As good as Klear.

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On 6/30/2018 at 12:52 AM, stevehnz said:

Possibly so Duncan,n I've not tried it with undiluted Klear, when I read about this, maybe on ARC or Finescale modeller I think, it was quite a few years ago now, the discussion mentioned that undiluted Klear grabbed too quick & some dilution gave more working time. I guess too, the act of rolling the decal down with a q-tip to remove excess from beneath the decal aids the leveling by removing excess from around it too. I like to wick excess away with the corner of a tissue or paper towel 1st then as the decal settles in the right position roll it from the middle out wards with a damp q-tip. Starting rolling while there is too much solution under it can easily cause it to move, but its not hard to repostion with a small brush.

Steve.

Used it on my current build, 50/50 dilution with distilled water, worked perfectly with a mix of new Airfix, ancient Almark and seriously nasty Misterkit decals, BTW I use the Klear branded "genuine" article

 

A

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I tried this for the first time yesterday and found that it worked quite well in general. I did have a couple of problems where the 'grab' of the Kleer took me a bit by surprise so had to wrestle with the decal to get it into place but once I realised that would happen I got on fine. I also had one area where it looked like it was starting to melt the gloss coat (under the white ED in the picture). No hard edge to the decals with the diluted Kleer either.

 

IMG_4202-L.jpg

 

I will be using this technique again for sure as I think the couple of problems I had were self inflicted and not the fault of the Kleer.

 

Duncan B

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That looks good Duncan Ok, so I'm biased 'cause I've got these decals too though I'm guessing yours might be 1/48 :unsure: There is no doubt some practice makes better but I reckon it is a forgiving method, hiccups are recoverable & it also has the beauty of enabling second layer decals to go on fairly soon, rather than waiting over night.

Steve

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Posted (edited)

Have you tried using this method with really, really old transfers?  I've just bought a bagged-issue D.H.4 and, in the absence of anything on the aftermarket scene,  it looks as if I might be stuck with using its 50-year-plus-old transfers.  This seems like my best hope.

 

One thing I've occasionally noticed when using Klear is that a new application may cause an earlier "dried" coat to go milky.  The message there is, "don't panic": the fogging will disappear as the new coat dries - or it always has in my experience!

Edited by Seahawk

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I've not used it on anything quite that old but no reasion it shouldn't work, it will stick them down if the glue has gone off, but I would use something like MS Liquid Decal Film on them just in case they want to shatter.

Steve.

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Yes, I have used it on old decals. Coat them with Microscale Decal Cote first to stop them breaking up. A couple of coats normally does it, then on with the Klear. I tend to keep a wet broad soft brush handy for moving decals, it also dilutes the Klear a bit if you use it wet. 

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