Kahunaminor Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I have the Hs123 from Gaspatch in the stash and looks like it will be next up. I intend to build Galland’s aircraft in the RLM 61/62/63 over 65 scheme. Looking at the colour call outs, I cannot discern the colour of the upper and lower wing and support leading edges? I thought RLM 70? TIA and regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Thats what it looks like to my old mark 1 👀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmaas Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Why wouldn't it be 61 Braun? Just availability of 70 or 71 at the front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Id say no to the RLM 61. If you look at the two overhead layouts. The leading edge is not the same color as the RLM 61 Dunkel Braun fields in the middle of the wings. Add to that the prop and the Leading edge seem to be a much closer match ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larumivi1951 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Here is one picture - I say it is maybe RLM 70 or 71! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) I would not expect to see 70/71 on an aircraft in the earlier scheme. The change was not just in colours but in types of paint. If this feature was something added late in the service of the aircraft, then maybe. If it can be seen on earlier examples, before the introduction of the new schemes, then it will be the darkest of the existing scheme. Edited June 3, 2018 by Graham Boak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahunaminor Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 3 hours ago, larumivi1951 said: Here is one picture - I say it is maybe RLM 70 or 71! Great photo, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 8 hours ago, jimmaas said: Why wouldn't it be 61 Braun? Just availability of 70 or 71 at the front? This isn't at any front, it is a prewar photo as from the style of the cross - and Galland's presence in Henschels. The prop appears lighter than the camouflage next to it - which would seem to rule out the habit of painting props 70 as this would be the darkest colour. I must admit that I don't know what colour props were painted before the introduction of the 70 series colours (any suggestions, anyone?). The painting on the strut looks a good match for the darkest camouflage colour. As for a scheme involving 70/71/63, I've seen no reference to any use of this combination. However, there are a few examples of an interim scheme, where the pattern has fewer segments along the fuselage than in the 61/62/63 scheme but more than in the replacement 70/71. This is normally seen on export Ju52s and He111s. I've seen colour reproductions of Romanian Heinkels where the colours appear to be 70/71/63, but Denes Bernard (who has the original photos) says that they were the standard 61/62/63. If I could believe that this photo really did show 70/71/63 that might re-open that discussion, but I have to say that I'm not convinced. With the Henschel being such a short aircraft, I'm not sure that counting segments along the fuselage would be particularly helpful. We can compare this pattern with that of the standard 61/62/63 scheme. From Michael Ullman's book, the photo shows a close match to the official pattern A, based on factory production drawings. The artwork at the start of this thread shows a close match to pattern B. So this is not any "interim" scheme but the standard 61/62/63. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmaas Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Graham, there may be some miscommunication here, my apologies if I've not been clear. I'm only reacting to the question about the dark color on the front of the interplane strut, while being a bit uncomfortable working from artwork. I only know of one set of photos of L2+AM ( http://falkeeins.blogspot.com/2015/08/hs-123-l2am-of-4slg-2-poland-september.html )and they just show the dark border on the interplane strut; getting a color read from that would be difficult. So that dark strut front color might be 61, or it might be 70 or 71, since those would have been available at the beginning of the Polish campaign. It is indeed Galland's aircraft in Poland, he was a Staffelkapitan in II(Schlacht)/LG-2, only later able to secure transfer to fighters. By the way, I don't know what the prop color is, just shows dark in the photo. However, the March 1938 LDv 521/1 calls for 7146.70 (i.e., Schwartzgrun) for metal props, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 When you look at the photo above on lower wing, next to main strut, you will see that upper surface is light (ie. grey RLM 63) and it ends before the leading edge. For me this is a standard three colour pre-war scheme (note that producer shceme had all light RML-65 main struts) with overpainted with dark colour (most likely RLM 70 as on prop) leading edges including leading edges of main struts. I think that like other old machines HS-123 was produced with silver (NMF) front of prop/bk back. The dark colour on prop (RLM 70?) is overpainted in unit, what explain the lack of producer logo on it. Cheers J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 P.S. I have just made a search in google and from many photos it looks that in factory three tone scheme the main struts have upper camo colour from inner (pilot) side and were light blue only from outside. When leding edges are dark even the aileron leading edge is dark! Regards J-W 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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