Out of the Box Models 1/72 Yak-9T (Crowdfunding)

[ICMF]

This was very obviously a scam from the very beginning.  But hey, he did promise to refund your money any time, even if it's past the six month window from your credit card company.

[Learstang]

10 minutes ago, ICMF said:

This was very obviously a scam from the very beginning.  But hey, he did promise to refund your money any time, even if it's past the six month window from your credit card company.

Now, let's not be too hasty. I'm still expecting those perfectly preserved Burmese Spitfires to show up any minute.

 

Regards,

 

Jason

[Masinissa]

Advice about crowdfunding.

 

Never use Indiegogo or Gofundme because the company seeking to raise funds can keep all the money they raise even if they don't reach their funding goal that will launch the product. They don't have to refund your money after 30 days of the end of the campaign. It's at their discretion. You can ask for your $ back until you are blue in the face, but there's no one to force them to return your money. (Hi AMK 👋)

 

Kickstarter is a safer bet. Why? Because they hold the funds in escrow. If the project isn't fully funded then all money is returned. Also if the Creator fails to deliver then Kickstarter will step in and make things right. The Creator will also be banned from using the platform to defraud anyone again.

 

If you are seeking funds and are an honest and legit creator use Kickstarter. Never trust a company using Indiegogo/Gofundme since they can take your investment in their promise and then never deliver or return your money.

Edited October 26, 2019 by Masinissa

[Asmodai]

Well, Kickstarter has had plenty of scams and fraud on its service, as well. I don't know what Kickstarter you've been using, but I've seen plenty of board gaming projects that fund and partially deliver, deliver junk, or just outright disappear after doing nothing. And the notion that Kickstarter will protect you is a joke - they don't do a darn thing after the project funds, except tell you to take it up with the creator. You see, the moment the project funds, Kickstarter gets paid, and after taking its cut, all but wash their hands of anything after that. Check out stuff like Robotech Tactics, Up Front, HARDCORPS, Airborne In Your Pocket, MERCS/Myth etc. Way too many to list here. Kickstarter puts on a pretty facade, but in the end, they are thieves and highwaymen just as much as Indiegogo and GoFundMe. They're just better at it, and bigger. In short, any crowd funding is a gamble, as even reputable companies with a past track record can fail and disappear. And many hobby/gaming companies are not publicly held, so you have no way to know the true state of their finances - they can be chugging along for a while in trouble, run a juicy Kickstarter, then fold. 

 

This project in particular had unrealistic goals and funding amounts, from even my casual experience with 3d printing. There was no way $700 or so was going to cover the design work, prototyping, and sending people actual models. In short, it was an ideal amount of money to steal, and then slip beneath the radar. 

[Aardvark]

"Oh brother, these are crooks!  They plot an ominous crime on the roof!" (c)*. Soviet cartoon "Kid and Сarlson" based on novel Astrid Lindgren.**

 

😁😁

 

As for me, it’s completely not clear why to make another Yak-9T at 72m scale in resin if there is a model from Dakoplast?  In addition, given that the last Yak-9D 1/48 from Modelsvit is made in 3D, there is in theory a small chance that it will be downscaled to 72nd scale with all family  Yak-9. Why small chance?

Based on the discussion of the M-55 on Facebook, if a company representative does not see the point of making the MiG-19 at 72m because there is a MiG-19 from Bilek and KP, then they are unlikely to be serious about making the Yak-9 with Dakoplast and ICM in 72nd...

 

🤗

 

 

 

B.R.

Serge

 

 

____________

*- https://ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Малыш_и_Карлсон

**- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrid_Lindgren

[Graham Boak]

The Dakoplast kit is not readily available, if at all.  I don't know the ICM one, which suggests likewise.

 

However,  not every manufacturer will be put off by the erratic presence of other kits of a subject.  Particularly if the alternatives are elderly toolings.  Whereas the Yak family of fighters is not seen in the West as being as iconic as the Spitfire, Bf109 or Zero, what is?  One reason for this has to be the lack of good kits.  I can buy good kits of the 1, 1B, and 9U, and a reasonable 7.  This isn't true of the 9 in any of its earlier variants.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Graham Boak

[Aardvark]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

The Dakoplast kit is not readily available, if at all.  I don't know the ICM one, which suggests likewise.

Yes, rare, but on territory former USSR maybe found as ICM

https://karopka.ru/community/user/12742/?MODEL=371194

 as found and vacuform:

https://karopka.ru/community/user/14782/?MODEL=417965

Of course comparison

with modern drawings all models Yak-9 72nd scale  poor in some details:

Why is the comparison of Yak-9 in the Yak-9T topic?

Because the Yak-9T from Dakoplast has the same wing problems* as the Yak-9 from this manufacture.

 

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Whereas the Yak family of fighters is not seen in the West as being as iconic as the Spitfire, Bf109 or Zero, what is? 

Yeppp...

 

Me-109 units produced
 according to various estimates, from> 33,000 to 34,852 copies
 (including Avia S-99 / S-199 and Hispano Aviación HA-1109/1110/1111/1112).

 

In total, 20,351 Spitfires were built, including two-seater training machines.

 

Yak-9 It was produced from October 1942 to December 1948, a total of 16,769 aircraft were built.

 

Mitsubishi A6M Zero   it was produced from 1940 to 1945, a total of 10 939 units were built.

 

The third plane by the number of built fighters WW2 period.....

 

 

 

B.R.

Serge

 

______________

*-

"And the most interesting thing about the wing:

 The most correct angle of the front sweep of the wing, yes ... yes, vacu!
 the Modeller’s is the most incorrect, which is another weighty argument in favor of using a vacuum model for the glider base (the ailerons only need to be shifted, not forgetting to make inserts to extend the wings).
 With the size / placement of ailerons at ІСМ and Modelist everything is OK"(c)

 

 

[Graham Boak]

And there were 18,000 Liberators built.  And how many Il 2s?  How many Piper Cubs?  The number built is undoubtedly important to the fame of an aircraft, but it isn't a total measure of that fame.  An icon is a subject that is representative of its nation, that people think about first, that model companies have to have in their range because it will sell widely in numbers exceeding others.  As far as the Soviet war effort is concerned, if there is one aircraft that can be called iconic it is probably the Il 2 rather than the Yak 9.  There are good models available of the Il 2, and there have been many more.  There are no good models readily available of the Yak 9D/T/M, but if not truly iconic then it is still a subject worth of much more attention that it has been given.

 

I take it the Modelist is the same tooling as the Dako?

[Aardvark]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

And there were 18,000 Liberators built.  And how many Il 2s?  How many Piper Cubs? 

Key would was

2 hours ago, Aardvark said:

built fighters

😉

If You take the number of built Yak-1, 3, 7, 9 🤔(because all this fighter based on first construction I-26 prototype Yak-1) then probably this most mass fighter family WW2.

🤗

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

As far as the Soviet war effort is concerned, if there is one aircraft that can be called iconic it is probably the Il 2 rather than the Yak 9

Of course! But in modern reality computer game played an important role in the revival of the popularity of this aircraft, as I think.

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

There are good models available of the Il 2, and there have been many more.  There are no good models readily available of the Yak 9D/T/M, but if not truly iconic then it is still a subject worth of much more attention that it has been given.

IL-2 to some extent, it is a combination of tactics, simplicity, mass character and unique technologies armor integration that the luftwaffe  could not repeat, although they tried to do it in the Ju-187 project.  There is nothing unique in Yak-9, therefore it is not interesting, and of course Yak-9 is not the best Soviet 2WW fighter on characteristics, many consider La-7 from serial, from experimental I-185 to be the best.

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

I take it the Modelist is the same tooling as the Dako?

I think yes.

 

B.R.

Serge

[John Thompson]

I know yes - Modelist = Dakoplast. And as has been said many times on these forums about a variety of aircraft, just because a kit exists doesn't mean it shouldn't be replaced by something better. For example: The ICM Yak-9 (reboxed by Squadron under their Encore label) is so crude that it's hardly worth building. Nearly every part in the box needs some kind of rework. The Airfix Yak-9 is also a very poor representation of the real thing, BTW, even though it hasn't been mentioned. Every Yak-9/VK-105 kit that was ever produced is so old as to be far, far away from today's standards.

 

I feel some responsibility for this whole 3D-printed Yak-9T fiasco, since it was my dumbass suggestion in the first place. If I could have foreseen this, I'd have proposed something less challenging, like maybe the Pietenpol Air Camper. For what it's worth, I apologize to those who coughed up the $20 entry fee; if it's any consolation, I was in for 2 of them. What I further regret is that I had earmarked one of them for Sergey Kosachev, out of gratitude for his guidance regarding drawings of the Yak-9T.

 

Anyway, putting aside any argument about its wartime significance, I still think the VK-105 Yak-9 series was important enough to be worthy of proper treatment by a kit manufacturer. I'd throw in the VK-107 versions as well, even though they are so different from the earlier Yak-9's - the Amodel Yak-9U and Yak-9P are okay, but shifting the wing aft by 2.5 mm is an annoying hassle.

 

John

[Learstang]

For what it's worth, John, I don't blame you for anything. Nobody forced me to fork over $20 - I knew I was taking a chance.

 

Best Regards,

 

Jason

[Aardvark]

4 hours ago, John Thompson said:

Anyway, putting aside any argument about its wartime significance, I still think the VK-105 Yak-9 series was important enough to be worthy of proper treatment by a kit manufacturer.

The more modellers write about it Modelsvit, the more likely they are to make this model.

😉

B.R.

Serge

 

P.S.

What do I care about the Yak-9 if my interest is jet fighters? 🤔

 

 Once upon a time, in the years 80-90, I made models for money, then I made including the Yak-9 from ICM and Dakoplast.

 

B.w. this Yak-9T 

from Dakoplast
still have it since ... the customer has lost interest in modeling.

So, my posting in this topic just a nostalgic recall...

🤗

Edited October 27, 2019 by Aardvark

[John Thompson]

Thanks Serge - Modelsvit seems to be doing a good job on the Yak-9 in 1/48; maybe some day they'll do 1/72 too. I have a feeling that we might be close to seeing something new, though. In the meanwhile, I'm happily busy with the Brengun Yak-1B, and soon the Yak-1B from Arma Hobby. Good times for a "Yak-obsessed Member"!

 

John

[KRK4m]

As far as it concerns the forward-cockpit M105-engined Yak-9s I'm still pleased with my Valom kit (they also do several Yak-7 boxings).

Unfortunately Valom stopped releasing the 1/72 Yak-7/9 family at the stage called  "early -9".

Of course -9D, -9B and -9R are buildable from this kit, but the same cannot be said about the -9T, -9M and -9DD.

5 hours ago, John Thompson said:

 I'd throw in the VK-107 versions as well, even though they are so different from the earlier Yak-9's - the Amodel Yak-9U and Yak-9P are okay, but shifting the wing aft by 2.5 mm is an annoying hassle.

I hope you remember that all VK107-engined Yak-9s had the wing moved forward due to the CG problems.

Cheers

Michael

[John Thompson]

1 hour ago, KRK4m said:

As far as it concerns the forward-cockpit M105-engined Yak-9s I'm still pleased with my Valom kit (they also do several Yak-7 boxings).

Unfortunately Valom stopped releasing the 1/72 Yak-7/9 family at the stage called  "early -9".

Of course -9D, -9B and -9R are buildable from this kit, but the same cannot be said about the -9T, -9M and -9DD.

I hope you remember that all VK107-engined Yak-9s had the wing moved forward due to the CG problems.

Cheers

Michael

 

I actually did a Yak-9T from the Valom early Yak-9 by relocating the cockpit, but it was a lot of work. And it's still waiting to be painted!

 

Regarding the Amodel Yak-9U and Yak-9P, I'm basing my comment about wing location on comparison with reliable drawings, and also on a related discussion on scalemodels.ru;

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_20289.html

 

John

[Ed Russell]

11 hours ago, John Thompson said:

II feel some responsibility for this whole 3D-printed Yak-9T fiasco, since it was my dumbass suggestion in the first place. If I could have foreseen this, I'd have proposed something less challenging, like maybe the Pietenpol Air Camper. For what it's worth, I apologize to those who coughed up the $20 entry fee;

 I don't blame you at all - nobody twisted my arm to fork out $20.  I did it knowing the lousy reputation of 'crowdfunding' - it seems like more than 90% are scams#. It's a bit like a lottery - your chances of winning are only very slightly improved by buying a ticket.

 

#put 'crowdfunding scam' into Google = 397,000 hits!

[Des]

On 10/26/2019 at 4:20 PM, ICMF said:

This was very obviously a scam from the very beginning.  But hey, he did promise to refund your money any time, even if it's past the six month window from your credit card company.

 

I was not involved with the Yak project but quite voluntarily made a donation towards the 737 project that Out-Of-The-Box launched around the same time.

 

Realised at the time that nothing might come of it but saw it as a way of developing a new step in our hobby and was prepared to take the loss if need be so other than one query a while back to see if there was any progress have not chased it up at all so was very surprised this evening to receive an e-mail from PayPal telling me that an e-cheque reimbursing my donation is in the process of clearing.

[Stew Dapple]

I got a notification today for an e-cheque refund from Out of the Box from PayPal titled... "eCheque payment in progress"

 

Anyone else?

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[Avereda]

44 minutes ago, Stew Dapple said:

I got a notification today for an e-cheque refund from Out of the Box from PayPal titled... "eCheque payment in progress"

 

Anyone else?

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

I’ve got a couple of payments pending from them, so effectively yes.

[Ed Russell]

Yes, they are refunding the money for this project and the 737. I'm pleased to see that Dan is an honest man but sorry the project never came to fruition.

It demonstrates very well the problems with commercialising 3D printing. Maybe there are some lessons to be learned from it? Our very small company has been battling with 3D printing and commercialisation thereof for some years without much technical or financial success.

[Greenshirt]

Same here. I got my refunds for both the Yak and 737. 
 

Tim

[orionfield]

Just wanted to let everyone know, that the refunds are issued, and this project, like Out of the Box, is officially dead. I am really sorry that we couldn't make it work, there were just a lot more variables than i foresaw going into this. 

[Stew Dapple]

I'm sorry for you too Dan, I'm sure we've all bitten off more than we can chew at some point - well I know I have, so I hope you don't feel too bad and have better luck going forward.

 

Thanks for the refund too.

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[spaddad]

8 hours ago, orionfield said:

Just wanted to let everyone know, that the refunds are issued, and this project, like Out of the Box, is officially dead. I am really sorry that we couldn't make it work, there were just a lot more variables than i foresaw going into this. 

Sorry it didn't work out. Thanks for the refund. Should you wish to try anything like this again get in touch,

cheers,

spad.

[Avereda]

11 hours ago, orionfield said:

Just wanted to let everyone know, that the refunds are issued, and this project, like Out of the Box, is officially dead. I am really sorry that we couldn't make it work, there were just a lot more variables than i foresaw going into this. 

Shame it didn’t work out, might be some valuable lessons that could be passed on to anyone else who gives it a go.