Harry_the_Spider Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I don't dabble much with the after market side of things, so I gave a question for those that do... I've got three 1:72 Spitfires in the stash and want to make them as 92 Squadron. Are decal sheets with different serial numbers from the same squadron available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipthepilot Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Harry_the_Spider said: Are decal sheets with different serial numbers from the same squadron available? You can buy sheets of letters in different sizes in order to create any serial number or squadron code you like. such as https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72189 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) I'm afraid it's not so easy. You can buy decal sheets with generic code letters, however in my experience, they seldom have the right size for a Spitfire. You can do the same with serials, but in my experience it's a tedious and difficult affair. For myself , I've bought a set of clear decal sheets that goes in to my injet printer and that way I can print black serials that are aligned and can be applied in one go. HTH Finn Edited June 1, 2018 by FinnAndersen misspelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_the_Spider Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 Hmmm... 92 was QJ, which would mean buying a lot of decal sheets for six Qs. Never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, pipthepilot said: You can buy sheets of letters in different sizes in order to create any serial number or squadron code you like. such as https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72189 You can, but the problem is that there was no "font" so the generic sheets are not always of use, as they won't match. This is especially true in the Battle of Britain era. Harry, I'm having troubles putting text where I want it, damn tablet, so these are answers to the below. The Airfix starter set Spitfire has QJ-B as an option,. Careful cutting would get you an E,F and L out of the B Serials were painted out early in 1940 for security, Doing this could get you 3 generic 92 sq planes. If you want actual documented examples, then it gets tricky, as photos are rare due to strict security, and the variations in codes styles mentioned above. For a better idea, make a cuppa and read the linked monograph below,. In particular note the shot at the top of page 8 https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/01-Supermarine-Spitfire 1 hour ago, Harry_the_Spider said: Hmmm... 92 was QJ, which would mean buying a lot of decal sheets for six Qs. Never mind. 4 hours ago, Harry_the_Spider said: I don't dabble much with the after market side of things, so I gave a question for those that do... I've got three 1:72 Spitfires in the stash and want to make them as 92 Squadron. Are decal sheets with different serial numbers from the same squadron availabl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) Serials were not always painted out, and when they were they were often replaced in smaller characters on the top of the fin. I'd check just what 92 Sq's approach to this was, and just when it applied. This only lasted briefly, late 1939 is a sort-of-informed guess. I wouldn't rely on it in this case. According to Fighter Squadrons of the RAF you could be looking for N3194/QJ.Z or P9367/QJ.A. These are aircraft that originally carried the squadron's earlier GR codes - Fighter Squadrons of the RAF have a number of other serials linked to GR-x codes but few Mk.Is with QJ. So if you are looking for BoB period with GR markings, there's also N3265/T, P9324/W, P9374/J, P9384/B. Perhaps annoyingly there is a photo of three Mk.IB with code/serial links ... photographed in the snow, so early 1941? The key reference Combat Codes give the changeover of codes as June/July 1941 which is rather odd not to say very unlikely given the photo of the Mk.IBs - which may well have been Mk.VB received in February 1941. (I bet they were.) I think Combat Codes may be at least a year too late with their change-over dates. QJ was also carried by 616 Sq., just to be awkward. As to the kits: The starter set is X4561/B, whereas X4551 is incorrectly given as QJ.B in FSR. This is shown in late 1941-early 1942 scheme with Sky trim and black port wing. The now-standard boxing has N3290/GR.U as a 92 sq aircraft in early 1940 colours. For the BoB you are looking for examples with all-Sky undersides and (probably) black spinners. The two kits nicely straddle this period, unfortunately. I've a feeling that there are two well-restored Spitfires in Dunkirk-period markings with 92 Sq origins, but no unit codes eg P9374/J (listed as GR.J in FSR, just to stir the muddy waters). If so, you are also looking for a rather odd style of fuselage roundels, but they do look very much like those Airfix provide on GR.U. The yellow surround surround and tall fin flash dates the scheme to no earlier than May 1st 1940, the Dunkirk "no unit code" examples perhaps a fortnight later? (Extrapolating here - the QJ codes in June/July 1940 not 1941 as listed?) Edited June 1, 2018 by Graham Boak 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 A minor point, the sky with black port wing is Nov 1940- April 1941. Useful information from Graham, I was trying to give some simple options while struggling with technology! Try Google image searching 92 sq spitfires Some images here, of varying times, which maybe of interest, note the GR codes as well https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Spitfire/RAF-92Sqn-QJ.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I think there’s four 92 Squadron aircraft (3 x QJ and 1 x GR) on this DK decals sheet - .. or you could just build all your aircraft in different Squadron markings for a bit of variety. Can we ask why all three from the same Squadron? Cheers.. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 That's a nice sheet, but two of them are Mk.IBs (or, I suspect, VBs but they may be the same airframe) and only N3093/W.QJ a BoB example. Still, that's good progress from none. Given the early serial I'd have placed that in the GR period, but we already have the later P9324 as GR.W. An earlier serial with a later scheme is not unheard of, of course. I do wonder quite who buys such a comprehensive sheet, but perhaps I should look again at the obsession thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_the_Spider Posted June 1, 2018 Author Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Can we ask why all three from the same Squadron? I've just finished reading Geoff Wellum's book and I'm part way through the Bob Stanford Tuck one. I fancy building a dispersal pen diorama complete with refuelling set and ground crew. Edited June 1, 2018 by Harry_the_Spider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I'm sure that I've seen reference to Wellum's aircraft, but can't recall just where or which. Worth digging, I'd have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG X Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Troy Smith said: The Airfix starter set Spitfire has QJ-B as an option,. Careful cutting would get you an E,F and L out of the B ...or if you are a 'bodger' like me - you can even get a 'P'... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Harry_the_Spider said: I've just finished reading Geoff Wellum's book and I'm part way through the Bob Stanford Tuck one. I fancy building a dispersal pen diorama complete with refuelling set and ground crew. Perhaps you could do it during the code change over, have a GR one, a QJ one, and one being repainted? You could possibly do a variety of undersides as well, see the monograph I linked above, I'm not sure of the date of code switch but a little artisic licence would make for an interesting trio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG X Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 2 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Perhaps you could do it during the code change over, have a GR one, a QJ one, and one being repainted? You could possibly do a variety of undersides as well, see the monograph I linked above, I'm not sure of the date of code switch but a little artisic licence would make for an interesting trio. The code change was in May 1940 - my personal hero - Sqn Ldr Roger Bushell - AKA BIG X himself flew GR-Z and was shot down on 23rd May 1940 - so close to the end of May - Battle of France era though - not BoB period. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Big X: FSR quotes GR.Z as N3194, and later as QJ.Z. So what is the serial you associate with GR.Z? Excuse me if I'm not surprised if it turns out to be N3194. Another aircraft lost over Dunkirk (P9374/J) carried no unit codes, which may simply mean that it was thrust into service immediately on arrival to the squadron. You have a serial N324? for QJ.P? Harry: That would give us A, B, J, P, T, U and W (well, probably all BoB period though there may be a little doubt around their contemporary existence if you want to be totally precise). Presumably you would need ones from the same Flight, and preferably section, for a refuelling diorama - and an Albion refueller not the later Airfix ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cookenbacher Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Xtradecal has a set that includes BoB 92 Sqn QJ-P, and the same serial that @BIG X built above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG X Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 25 minutes ago, Cookenbacher said: Xtradecal has a set that includes BoB 92 Sqn QJ-P, and the same serial that @BIG X built above. My problem was that I was building 1/24 and after market decals are 'thin on the ground' - here is what I had to start with... The serials were seriously MASSIVE - but completely wrong for what I needed... ...luckily a set of Hannants 'generic' letters for 1/48 contained 7mm ones - must be for big bombers or something. It doesn't help Harry - but at least it shows an alternate scheme for the standard 1/24 Airfix kit can be done with little bother. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 7 hours ago, Graham Boak said: That's a nice sheet, but two of them are Mk.IBs (or, I suspect, VBs but they may be the same airframe) and only N3093/W.QJ a BoB example. Still, that's good progress from none. Given the early serial I'd have placed that in the GR period, but we already have the later P9324 as GR.W. An earlier serial with a later scheme is not unheard of, of course. I do wonder quite who buys such a comprehensive sheet, but perhaps I should look again at the obsession thread! Your quite right Graham. I didn't notice the Mk. 1b's cannons having loaded this image from my little iPhone late at night. Now regarding your 'who buys these sheets' query - well I suppose I do, having purchased quite a few of DK's excellent sheets over the years. I don't particularly have this one, however have their 452 and 453 Squadon dedicated sheets which have more Spits on them to keep any crazed Spitfire fan entertained for a number of years. It would actually be nice to find an 'exchange buddy' that would be happy to offer bits and pieces of these various sheets in order to help me save a few dollars here and there. Cheers.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG X Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: Big X: FSR quotes GR.Z as N3194, and later as QJ.Z. So what is the serial you associate with GR.Z? Excuse me if I'm not surprised if it turns out to be N3194. Another aircraft lost over Dunkirk (P9374/J) carried no unit codes, which may simply mean that it was thrust into service immediately on arrival to the squadron. You have a serial N324? for QJ.P? Hi Graham - N3194 would have had a hell of a job becoming QJ-Z after this Here she is - after Bushell burned her out with a flare... as for 'You have a serial N324? for QJ.P?' Here you go - flown and crashed by Titch Havercroft - on approach to RAF Pembrey... hope that clears things up. BTW - SORRY FOR THE THREAD HI-JACK HARRY - all interesting 92 Sqn stuff though... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 @BIG X just wondering if you've actually build Bushell's Spitfire as depicted in these attached wreckage photographs. I know it would be almost impossible to verify, however do you think that the fuselage roundel has the yellow surround, or just the standard Red, White, Blue Type A? Having watched 'The Great Escape' countless times I've only just realised the link between the Big X and all this 92 Squadron stuff. It's nice to learn something new, however feel a little embarrassed that it's taken me so long. Cheers.. Dave. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG X Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said: @BIG X just wondering if you've actually build Bushell's Spitfire as depicted in these attached wreckage photographs. I know it would be almost impossible to verify, however do you think that the fuselage roundel has the yellow surround, or just the standard Red, White, Blue Type A? Having watched 'The Great Escape' countless times I've only just realised the link between the Big X and all this 92 Squadron stuff. It's nice to learn something new, however feel a little embarrassed that it's taken me so long. Cheers.. Dave. Hey Dave - How could I not build it.... BLACK / WHITE / SILVER - Underbelly - with a Z under the prop and white 'warning signs' on the black wing. 'Old school' roundels on the sides - very narrow yellow band and lots of white and very little red... ...and the man himself.... ROGER JOYCE BUSHELL... I could cover pages and pages with poignant information about this amazing guy - but it's always better if you go and look yourself. You can start with my 'signature' - which has a couple of links - but there is so much more to learn - enough said... Steve 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 That’s great stuff Steve, many thanks for that. I did follow both your links but it would seem there’s a lot to like about this flamboyant chap. Pity that life was so short for such a interesting fellow. Nice Spit as well. Looks like beside the grey ‘Z’ and serial one should be able to use the latest Airfix 1/72 kit as a good base to replicate this aircraft. Many thanks.. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_the_Spider Posted June 2, 2018 Author Share Posted June 2, 2018 Right then... Just got back from my holidays and have taken a photo of the Spit-Stash. As the whole lot cost less than a tenner I'm not going to spend a load on decals. I'll just work with what I've got. Also, I've just scored a refuelling set and an emergency vehicles set for £12.90 delivered. So, I'll get to work on a massively inaccurate diorama as soon as I've finished my Tomcat. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry_the_Spider Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 BTW... Does anyone happen to know the logic behind the "one black wing" camouflage scheme? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 8 minutes ago, Harry_the_Spider said: BTW... Does anyone happen to know the logic behind the "one black wing" camouflage scheme? quick recognition it seems essentially a variation on the earlier split B/W undersides. I linked this reference above, and it well worth a read. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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