Some Tornado questions

[DaveJL]

Hello all,

 

I've a few questions for Tornado aficionados;

 

1. When did the ASRAAM become operational on the F3?

2. When was Skyflash replaced by the AIM-120 on the F3?

3. What are the correct colours for the F3?

4. For Op Shader missions, does the GR4 carry ASRAAMs for self defence?

5. Would Tamiya's XF-83 'Medium Sea Grey 2 RAF' be the correct colour for current GR4s?

 

I had a quick search but couldn't find all the answers.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[XV107]

1. ASRAAM came into use with the F3 in 2002. It was meant to enter service the previous year, but there were some contractual issues which delayed acceptance by the MoD. It was at an interim standard at the start of the year, and then underwent trials. ASRAAM was declared operational in the summer of '02, with a final (at that point) upgrade of a couple of features being accepted in 2003.

2. AMRAAM & Skyflash overlapped in service. AMRAAM integration was begun under the sustainment programme in the late 90s, but this did not give the F3 full capability with AMRAAM (no mid-course update, etc). The AMRAAM Optimisation programme was approved in 2001, with test firings in 2002; the -120B came into service in June 04, with the AIM-120C-5 in September that year. The initial 'austere' capability wasn't much of an improvement over Skyflash, which is why the older weapon went with the F3 to Op TELIC in '03.

3. I'll leave that to an expert who knows which fetching shade of grey it is

4. This will depend upon a variety of factors which will boil down to whether, on some/any sorties it is thought that there may be an air threat, in which case weapons would/can be carried. Anything more than that starts getting into discussing possible ROE... But there is a video of a sortie below which is public domain.

5. Er... I refer the Hon Gentleman to the answer I gave a few moments ago.

 

 

 

 

[Motley]

On Op Shader i know of only once really where they have flown with ASRAMMS on the Tonkas, and that was recently with the Stormshadow missions into Syria. Ive spent the best part of a year out there working on the line, and the only time i saw ASRAMMs was on the Typhoons, even when the Russians were found to be flying in Syria and the news papers were saying the Tonkas were being loads with air to air missiles they didnt fly with them

[PhantomBigStu]

I have questions if I may, JP233, was it mounted on the outer under fuselage pylons? And was the inner pylon carried? 

[DaveJL]

Thanks for the info chaps, looks like I'll load my F3 with ASRAAM and Skyflash and leave off the ASRAAM for the GR4. Just need to confirm the greys now!

 

4 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

I have questions if I may, JP233, was it mounted on the outer under fuselage pylons? And was the inner pylon carried? 

 

I think I can answer that one; outer fuselage pylons and I believe the centre line pylon was removed.

[Shaun]

On 5/25/2018 at 7:18 PM, DaveJL said:

Hello all,

 

I've a few questions for Tornado aficionados;

 

 

3. What are the correct colours for the F3?

 

 

I had a quick search but couldn't find all the answers.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

The first early scheme was Barley gray top sides and light aircraft gray underneath, later aircraft had an overall med gray colour. Best was to spot the scheme is the roundel colours, pastel pink/blue, white stencils, later scheme dark roundels and dark gray stencils. What I've always found strange is that RAF TWU hawks were painted med gray back in the 80's, while the F3 & F4's were in the lighter barley gray.But with fading over a few years its hard to see shades in some photos.It this photo the older gray has darkened, compared the fresh painted nose section!

 

https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/XX185

 

Tornado F3, old fuselage colours, newer coloured wings.

 

https://www.planespotters.net/photo/503713/zh552-royal-air-force-panavia-tornado-f3

[PhantomBigStu]

22 hours ago, DaveJL said:

Thanks for the info chaps, looks like I'll load my F3 with ASRAAM and Skyflash and leave off the ASRAAM for the GR4. Just need to confirm the greys now!

 

 

I think I can answer that one; outer fuselage pylons and I believe the centre line pylon was removed.

Cheers, I shall not fit it then 

[XV107]

Only just seen this, but I have a feeling that the pylon was fitted.

 

If you go to the Tornado SIG page:

 

http://www.tornadosig.com/gulf-war-weapons.html

 

You will see at the bottom a photo - which, viewer discretion advised, has a rather rude piece of advice to Mr S Hussein of Baghdad scrawled upon the JP233 cannister which dominates the shot  - in which JP233 is being loaded. And there is something looking jolly like the centre pylon of the GR1 to be seen...

[PhantomBigStu]

18 minutes ago, XV107 said:

Only just seen this, but I have a feeling that the pylon was fitted.

 

If you go to the Tornado SIG page:

 

http://www.tornadosig.com/gulf-war-weapons.html

 

You will see at the bottom a photo - which, viewer discretion advised, has a rather rude piece of advice to Mr S Hussein of Baghdad scrawled upon the JP233 cannister which dominates the shot  - in which JP233 is being loaded. And there is something looking jolly like the centre pylon of the GR1 to be seen...

Yes that does look like it

[nigelshipp]

Yes Tamiyas Med Sea RAF2 is the correct one for GR4, the shade hasnt changed since ww2

 

 

F3

BS626 - Camouflage Gray (previously know as Barley Gray and Flint Gray) standard upper and sides of F3 until intro of overall med sea

BS627 - light Aircraft Gray - Standard F3 undersides until intro of overall med sea

BS637 Medium Sea Grey - overall, latter F3

 

GR4

They started in the had the millenium scheme of Dark Sea Gray and Dark camouflage gray but this was short lived and  phased out iafter the second gulf war, since mid 2000's the fleet wear overall BS637

 

BS638 - Dark Sea uppers

BS629 - Dark Camouflage sides and lowers

BS637 - med sea overall

 

Regards

Nigel

[canberra kid]

A bit of JP233 action!

John

[DaveJL]

Reviving this thread....

 

I've been looking at pictures of the F3. I'm planning to fit 4x AIM-132 to my upcoming build and had planned to add BOL rails. From images that I've seen, the BOL rail appears to only be fitted on the inside of the wing pylon. Is this correct?

 

Also for a 2004 based Coningsby jet, would a fit of 4x AIM-132 and 4x Skyflash be accurate for QRA?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[Nocoolname]

50 minutes ago, DaveJL said:

Reviving this thread....

 

I've been looking at pictures of the F3. I'm planning to fit 4x AIM-132 to my upcoming build and had planned to add BOL rails. From images that I've seen, the BOL rail appears to only be fitted on the inside of the wing pylon. Is this correct?

 

Also for a 2004 based Coningsby jet, would a fit of 4x AIM-132 and 4x Skyflash be accurate for QRA?

 

Cheers

 

Dave

What are you using for BOL rails? I was thinking of picking up some resin ones originally intended for an F-14 and giving them a little workover.

[DaveJL]

47 minutes ago, Nocoolname said:

What are you using for BOL rails? I was thinking of picking up some resin ones originally intended for an F-14 and giving them a little workover.

@Shaun cast me a few. If I can confirm there's only 2 fitted, I'll have 2 spare if you need them.

[Nocoolname]

1 minute ago, DaveJL said:

@Shaun cast me a few. If I can confirm there's only 2 fitted, I'll have 2 spare if you need them.

That'd be great thanks Dave. If not I'll drop him a line and see if he can sort out a set for me.

[DaveJL]

12 minutes ago, Nocoolname said:

That'd be great thanks Dave. If not I'll drop him a line and see if he can sort out a set for me.

Just thinking I'll need them for my GR4

 

 

[Nocoolname]

5 minutes ago, DaveJL said:

Just thinking I'll need them for my GR4

 

 

Ditto. Though it'll be a good year before I've settled on which retirement scheme to build.

[Des]

2 hours ago, DaveJL said:

From images that I've seen, the BOL rail appears to only be fitted on the inside of the wing pylon. Is this correct?

 

Yes , that was the case.

 

As regards the original scheme with Barley Grey later described as Camouflage Grey although they are said to be the same my experience has been that the original Barley Grey was more of a Satin finish and had a slightly more blueish tinge than the later Camouflage Grey which was rather matter in appearance  and seemed much more susceptible to dirt and scuff marks , where panels were swapped about and the two colours appear on the same airframe the difference is noticeable.

 

Although the shades of grey involved meant that the F.3 never achieved quite the same chequered appearance as the GR.4 did for a while mixes of the old and final overall Medium Sea Grey colour scheme (sometimes with the occasional GR.4 dark greys , whatever grey was to hand or primer panel) were not uncommon along with mixes of both early pink/light blue and red/dark blue national markings on the same aircraft.

 

Also whereas the original colour scheme had the upper surface grey curving under the fuselage framing the Light Aircraft Grey undersides in almost a lozenge shape there were some later resprays that had a demarcation line along the lower fuselage , very much a case of searching out references for the aircraft being modeled.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Des

[DaveJL]

13 hours ago, Des said:

Yes , that was the case.

 

As regards the original scheme with Barley Grey later described as Camouflage Grey although they are said to be the same my experience has been that the original Barley Grey was more of a Satin finish and had a slightly more blueish tinge than the later Camouflage Grey which was rather matter in appearance  and seemed much more susceptible to dirt and scuff marks , where panels were swapped about and the two colours appear on the same airframe the difference is noticeable.

 

Although the shades of grey involved meant that the F.3 never achieved quite the same chequered appearance as the GR.4 did for a while mixes of the old and final overall Medium Sea Grey colour scheme (sometimes with the occasional GR.4 dark greys , whatever grey was to hand or primer panel) were not uncommon along with mixes of both early pink/light blue and red/dark blue national markings on the same aircraft.

 

Also whereas the original colour scheme had the upper surface grey curving under the fuselage framing the Light Aircraft Grey undersides in almost a lozenge shape there were some later resprays that had a demarcation line along the lower fuselage , very much a case of searching out references for the aircraft being modeled.

Thanks mate, appreciate the help!

 

I'll be building ZE158 in and around 2004 so I'll have to try and find some pictures to get an idea of the what way the paint looked.

 

[Des]

7 hours ago, DaveJL said:

I'll be building ZE158 in and around 2004 so I'll have to try and find some pictures to get an idea of the what way the paint looked.

 

 

I was just going digital around then and had a look through my files but I don't seem to have ZE158 among any 25 Sqn. F.3 that caught back then although there are a lot online.

[DaveJL]

11 minutes ago, Des said:

 

I was just going digital around then and had a look through my files but I don't seem to have ZE158 among any 25 Sqn. F.3 that caught back then although there are a lot online.

The decals I have say it's from 111 Squadron

 

[Des]

Did a quick search and ZE158 in 2004 gave me 'FF' from 25 Sqn. , if it is 111 Sqn. should have something what tail letters do you have for it?

[DaveJL]

26 minutes ago, Des said:

Did a quick search and ZE158 in 2004 gave me 'FF' from 25 Sqn. , if it is 111 Sqn. should have something what tail letters do you have for it?

There's no tail lettering for it; here's the decal sheet in full:

 

[Des]

Got it , first file checked in June 2004 has it with 111 Sqn. carrying the codes 'UW' during a JMC exercise at Leuchars which look very new so the decals shown must predate that slightly so if you pm me an email address that I can send images to I will search out what I have and send them to you in the next day or so ,  possibly a new arrival at Leuchars hence my earlier 25 Sqn confusion.

[Troffa]

ZE158 was amongst the very First F3's delivered (If not the first, I'll check later) and saw service with several Squadrons over it's lifetime.

In this shot ZE158, in 229 OCU/ 65(R) Markings sports the F2 Style Inboard Sidewinder launcher only on the Pylons. Happy days 🙂 

 

ZE158 May 1987