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IWM Duxford May 26 & 27


Jonny

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I've bought my ticket, and a carpark ticket and have just got my camera kit together ready for tomorrow.

 

Once upon a time, like up to last year, it was possible to download a 'flying list' from the website.  The IWM website offers a scrolling display of thumbnails and that's all.  Or am I looking in the wrong place?

 

Anyone know if there is a decent list?

 

I have to say since IWM took over administrators of what was the FoD and Duxford generally it seems less easy to buy Airshow tickets (it's now necessary to perform two separate transaction to buy an entry ticket and carpark ticket whereas before one could buy both in one go) and the info. about the airshows is amateurish to say the least - ref. my comment about thumbnails they have several T6's listed but not all have photos!

 

Rant mode 'OFF' but if anyone knows how to get a list of flying aeroplanes and can point me in the right direction I'd be grateful!

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Jonny

 

 

 

 

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I was going to go but for exact reasons above and other, I will not be going again... maybe ever?!

I do fancy going to different shows and a couple I haven't been to in years like Yeovilton or Shuttleworth.

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It gets rather worse, sadly ... On arriva at Duxford yesterday I went to the FoD marquee to find it is now the Premium members tent.  Big queue as a singe, IWM woman checked membership.  Nice big marquee but I asked if they had a flying list and was told "you have to buy a programme".  I don't at all 'have to buy'.  Then I noticed drinks and munchies were on sale.  Nothing like the FoD days when it was rapid entry and free drinks, etc.  Not to mention they usually had a flying list with timings.  As it happened just before the show sfarted the announcer ran through the  participants and I was able to jot down the details.

 

Shame on IWM ... just what benefits does membership of IWM offer ex FoDs?

 

 

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On Friday, May 25, 2018 at 8:29 PM, Paul J said:

I was going to go but for exact reasons above and other, I will not be going again... maybe ever?!

I do fancy going to different shows and a couple I haven't been to in years like Yeovilton or Shuttleworth.

I am of the same mind I am afraid. Duxford was my only show of the year. Now with the "bank" out of bounds and all this online malarkey its ruined for me. I am with you on Shuttleworth and Yeovilton , but unless I am down west its Shuttleworth for me if at all.

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It's very sadly the same with a lot of what was very interesting collections that were managed badly by mostly volunteers in 80's - early 00's, not by design just lack of knowledge and know how of what it takes to raise money and run a museum that has to pay it's way.  Take Bletchley Park, I know several people who set the museum up once BT (ex GPO) left the site and hadn't spent money on most of what was the WW2 buildings mainly the earlier wooden huts.  After some years of self help, patching up and lack of funds it it closed and was taken over by people who run the likes of theme parks and a like, the dreaded accountants with too much power.  Yes they get you money and yes they save the museum but at the cost of less to see, Bletchley housed other collections which were told pay or go, they couldn't so they went.  Up goes cost of entry, they charge for everything, open the doors to cooperate hire and investment from those who want a quick return. Slowly but surely the museum collection, visitor becomes second place it's all about the profit and there is profit to be made for a period. 

 

That profit isn't put back into the museum it's going into the pockets of the investor/s these are mostly venture capitalist who aren't interested in the history it's just money and a product. They plan how much it takes to give a return, they hammer it, get their return and move on, what is often left is a run down shell.  What is needed is a balance between the too some I'm sure are finding that balance others like Duxford sadly aren't and they will in time be the victim of their own success!  

 

           

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On 27 May 2018 at 10:36 AM, Kev The Modeller said:

It's very sadly the same with a lot of what was very interesting collections that were managed badly by mostly volunteers in 80's - early 00's, not by design just lack of knowledge and know how of what it takes to raise money and run a museum that has to pay it's way.  Take Bletchley Park, I know several people who set the museum up once BT (ex GPO) left the site and hadn't spent money on most of what was the WW2 buildings mainly the earlier wooden huts.  After some years of self help, patching up and lack of funds it it closed and was taken over by people who run the likes of theme parks and a like, the dreaded accountants with too much power.  Yes they get you money and yes they save the museum but at the cost of less to see, Bletchley housed other collections which were told pay or go, they couldn't so they went.  Up goes cost of entry, they charge for everything, open the doors to cooperate hire and investment from those who want a quick return. Slowly but surely the museum collection, visitor becomes second place it's all about the profit and there is profit to be made for a period. 

 

That profit isn't put back into the museum it's going into the pockets of the investor/s these are mostly venture capitalist who aren't interested in the history it's just money and a product. They plan how much it takes to give a return, they hammer it, get their return and move on, what is often left is a run down shell.  What is needed is a balance between the too some I'm sure are finding that balance others like Duxford sadly aren't and they will in time be the victim of their own success!  

 

           

I agree with your comments, Kev, except for one thing:

 

The IWM website includes an 'about us' page.  There it states the IWM is partly funded by Government (hear the drumbeat of doom'?') and partly by donations.  I guess that's an incentive to maximise revenue so whoever actually runs the thing can go to the (Government) paymaster and say "look - we really are trying to be self finding".

 

I read somewhere that the Chair / CEO or whatever of the IWM is a retired army man ( I.e. a target, as defined by many who regard Duxford as a repository of real aeroplanes - or am I being rude & distasteful?).

 

I do wonder how much resident companies at Duxford, I.e. ARC, TFC,,etc. (a) pay IWM. for hangar space and ground rent and (b) how much revenue their collections, etc. generate for IWM.  It occurred to me that nor far from Duxford there's a working, operational airfield, North Weald.  Might these companies be prepared to relocate?   There are more direct public transport links from London, for one thing.  There was talk not long ago of airshows being resurrected at North Weald .  TFC does a more than excellent job of organising a show at Duxford and I'm sure could at North Weald too.

 

Just a thought ...

 

Jonny

Edited by Jonny
Correcting some unfortunate typos!
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I've only just seen this thread, and after spending two days in the Premium Membership enclosure (formerly Friends of Duxford), I feel like I have been exploited rather than rewarded for supporting the IWM.

 

In my opinion, the only real benefit is decent toilet facilities! I have emailed IWM with my observations, and unless membership benefits improve, I will not renew my membership for 2019.

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11 hours ago, Jonny said:

I agree with your engineers, Kev, except for one thing -

 

The IWM WEBSITE INCORPIRATES AN 'about us' page.  There it states the IWM is partly funded by Government (hear the drumbeat of doom'?' and partly by donations.  I guess that's an incentive to maximise revenue so whoever actually runs the thing can go to the (Government) paymaster and say "look - we really are trying to be self finding".

 

I read somewhere that the Chair / CEO or whatever is a retired army man ( I.e. a target, as defined by many who regard Duxford as a repository of real aeroplanes - or am I being rude & distasteful?

 

I do wonder how much resident companies at Duxford, I.e. ARC, TFC,,etc. (a) pay IWM. for hangar space and ground rent and (b) how much revenue their collections, etc. generate for IWM.  It occurred to me that nor far from Duxford there's a working, operational airfield, North Weald.  Might these companies be prepared to relocate?   There are more direct public transport links from London, for one thing.  There was talk not long ago of airshows being resurrected at North Weald .  TFC does a more than excellent job of organising a show at Duxford and I'm sure could at North Weald too.

 

Just a thought ...

 

Jonny

Jonny 

 

You're correct with Duxford site being party government funded and I'm not certain how that works and is probably a legacy from when the IWM took over the site.  What's interesting the IWM's London and Northern sites both are free entry, although probably totally funded by public money.  The same free entry applies to RAF museum sites of Hendon and Cosford albeit you have to pay small charge for car parking, the Army Museum is also free, I'm not sure what their funding status is but probably also a mixture.  Many of county regimental museums are also free or ask for a donation, although some are now located within other collections and a small charge is made.  However Duxford charges £15 - £17 odd for admission and if you want to visit a display day/weekend entry starts at £35 and ends at well........ I think it would be easy to get close or even over £100 depending on what you want.  Like others have said being a friend gets you little or nothing especially on the display days.  

 

Keeping an airfield operational, classic aircraft flying and restoring them etc cost money.  I would add much of the latter two is achieved by organisations not part of IWM and those are to some extent staffed by volunteers.  What is needed at Duxford in my opinion is something closer to the Hendon/Cosford model,  I think most people would accept that running Duxford is going to cost more the Hendon or Cosford due to the flying but they need to deliver better value for money and look after their friends.   For me where Duxford and other collections have gone wrong, is to employ/follow the methods of cooperate entertainment as a way to get a fast return.  This is seen at most race tracks, major car/bike shows held at large venues (NEC, ExCel and alike) where they charge for entry, £15 plus to park, food/drink is extortionate and stands are crammed into the smallest space possible you can't see or even move properly.  Go to a race meeting at say Silverstone F1 it's almost £80 for a ticket and you get a crap view at 30 - 40 deep obscure corner, to get anything decent it's almost £200 going up to, well you take a look.........................!  I would add most good viewing areas are now given over to corporate blocks.  It's the same with football last time I took my lads to a Premiership game cost of the travel, tickets, a drink/food.................£200!  And that was a few years ago I've not been since.    

 

The profits being made in all this are huge!   

 

No one really objects to paying, but when you're getting utterly ripped off and that's what's happening it's just not right.           

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5 hours ago, Alpha Delta 210 said:

I've only just seen this thread, and after spending two days in the Premium Membership enclosure (formerly Friends of Duxford), I feel like I have been exploited rather than rewarded for supporting the IWM.

 

In my opinion, the only real benefit is decent toilet facilities! I have emailed IWM with my observations, and unless membership benefits improve, I will not renew my membership for 2019.

Interesting!  On Saturday, when I visited the 'decent toilet' facilities, the paper hand towels had all been used!  Has IWM contracted the toilets to smother company?

 

I've just received an email from IWM asking how much I'd enjoyed the show, with a Survey form.  It's clearly geared to pushing respondents to a WOW response ( 'click on  all that apply' but  if nothing applies,  on clicking the 'NEXT' button the response was 'you must click something'). At the end of the Survey one can add comments up to 600 characters. I tried but ran out of space.  

 

I doubt if if membership benefits will improve.  If you look at Tripadvisor the number of satisfied responses massively exceeds the dissatisfied ones.  So long as that continues IWM will do its own thing.  I'm considering going to Flying Legends this year (with a my own prepackaged lunch and drinks), going to the museum several times afterwards. to avoid paying anything more to IWM, then not renewing my membership next year.  I might swap my IWM 'membership' to a TFC one ... I believe Friends of TFC qualify for free entrance.  The Flying Legends show is invariably better than the IWM ones anyway so instead of Duxford I'll go to Shuttleworth.

 

Sorry to rant.  I'm so disappointed by developments at Duxford.  I've been a visitor since 1976 and to see the whole ambience of the pace wrecked is awful.

 

Jonny

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It's a real shame, but it's all about numbers people go and do have a great time as more often than not, it's the first time they've been and seen these amazing aircraft. We as enthusiasts know the score and are not so easily impressed and many of us have been many times before so know what it was like.  Those running these events couldn't careless if the real enthusiasts gets their money worth, they've got 100,000s of others lining up and they've only got to rip each off once they've already spent they money!

 

These trip advisor/feed back sites are useful to a point as many who do feel a bit ripped off can't be bothered to say anything, as they feel no one's going to listen and they're right until enough do.  Marketing feed back works on the odds most won't tell their negative experience as it takes much longer to say what was wrong than it does to say "great time, Brilliant etc.  Then there's the own company feed back and as you've just experienced they're weighted to make it very hard to say anything but how good it was.

 

I think the political name for all this is "spin" and sadly it works, it does eventually run it's course but it can take years and by then they've got all the money!              

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I always thought it was daft to have the entry kiosk before the shop at Duxford,I would have spent a fortune by now if I could have just popped into the shop when passing.A couple of friends of mine used to volunteer there and they gave up years ago stating the management were the reason they left.

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