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A20 Havoc / Boston


kitman

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Hi This aircraft for some reason has caught my imagination so I wonder if anyone can tell me who makes the best model of this aircraft in 1/72 or 1/48. Thanks🙂

Edited by kitman
WRONG AIRCRAFT DESIGNATION
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1/72, MPM for A-20B , A-20C , Boston III/IIIA, A-20G/H, Revel do the A-20J/K from MPM but they have tweaked it a bit, more detail in turret and a couple of other small things.

DK decals are about to release a couple of great sets of A-20/Boston decals, lots of interesting markings.  

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2 hours ago, Sydhuey said:

....,.,

DK decals are about to release a couple of great sets of A-20/Boston decals, lots of interesting markings.  

Hi

   Those decal options are going to dent my bank account 

 

   night intruders, havocs, and bostons 

 

   and a whirlwind intruder...

 

     cant wait to see the previews

 

http://www.dkdecals.cz/

 

   cheers

      jerry

 

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Among the various modern choices available, I'd probably go with the AMT 1/48 kits, the MPM ones are nice but not the easiest to build. Of course if 1/72 is your scale, then MPM all the way, more so today that Special Hobby is getting rid of MPM branded kits on their website with a 50% discount. Me, I have the MPM kit for this reason (the 1/72 thing, not the discount.. oh well, the discount was good to have anyway)

The AMT 1/48 was also reboxed in several variants by Italeri (A-20G, A-20B and P-70) and Revell (A-20G/J). It is overall an easy to find kit

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I've acquired the AMT 1/48th G a couple of weekends ago and it looks to be a nice kit, at least a good basis for adding extra detail. some details look to be overdone such as the tyre treads. Hoping the Normandy landings 75th anniversary GB comes off as it'll be a great subject for that.

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Here:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Revell-03939-P-70-Nighthawk-Model/dp/B01J5WGOMG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1527156973&sr=8-3&keywords=Revell+Nighthawk

 

This is the Revell issue of the MPM/SH A20B/C/BostonIII/IIIA. It is a good price and an excellent point is that it contains lots of extra bits of plastic for the various MPM/SH versions (including the Turbinlite variant and other noses including 4 gun and 12 gun 'Martin Baker' and transparencies for A20B, C  or DB7A) plus early and late exhaust arrangements,  which are usually clipped off the sprues by SH before packaging for the appropriate versions. Only things missing that I can see are the 'Alligator' exhausts for the night intruder/Turbinlite versions but SH will sell you pairs of those separately (resin) if you ask them nicely, said alligators come also with resin 'vented' cowlings for the 99 (the first AH430 crashed before deliuvery) early French DB7As (which all ended as Havoc IIs with the RAF).  The 1cm dia clear disc for the Turbinlite nose isn't there but all the other Turbinlite nose parts are. Anyone with a craft knife can cut and file a clear disc though can't they? The half price kits off the SH 'site are about the same as the above pricewise but one only gets the parts for the specific version included, unlike the fantastic value (£15 variable) Revell issue above. The postage is expensive too, to UK anyway. If you get the Revell issue off Amazon, it's post free.

 

The High Planes are good too but need a lot of work and nowhere near the top value of the above kit.

 

Other versions in 1/72 are nice to see and hold for nostalgia but all are very old and inaccurate: Airfix, Frog, Revell (old kit) all need major work and such things as prop replacements etc. 

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16 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

   Those decal options are going to dent my bank account 

 

   night intruders, havocs, and bostons 

 

   and a whirlwind intruder...

 

     cant wait to see the previews

 

http://www.dkdecals.cz/

 

   cheers

      jerry

 

Jerry, about a 12/13 options for each of the 3 A-20/Boston/Havoc  sheets, almost every aircraft ID'd by photo's, I helped Franta with the research, couple of Mediterranean 18Sqn machines will get some comments. A couple more A-20 sheets to go for other theatre's /users.  

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In 1/72, the MPM/Special Hobby kits are the best.  Some of the variants were also re-boxed by Revell/Germany.  However I've heard they can be a real pain to build..especially the getting the fuselage to fit together, and the nose to fit the fuselage.  However, your only other options are ancient kits by Revell, Airfix, Matchbox or Frog..or the High Planes kits, which are very limited-run and require considerable skill to build.  

 

SN

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I think you have to be careful about comments flying around on the 'net, and take them with a pinch of salt.  Many seem to come from those who refuse to accept anything less than Tamiya standards of fit, or perhaps tried a kit from an East European short-run company a decade or two back and assume that the same criticisms still apply to a more-modern well-tooled kit such as the A-20.  That said, making sure that internal bulkheads and floors do fit the inner volume of the fuselage is still a wise precaution - even the current Airfix Spitfire Mk.I suffers from this - but we are not talking about anything like the notorious Roden Heinkel He111.  I believe that the A-20 does suffer from the nose to fuselage mismatch (as does their Blenheim), but this is easily fixed by a small strip of plasticard between the joins top and bottom.  That may even help with internal bulkheads - let me know, I've yet to get that far with mine.  Too many kits, too little time.

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4 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I think you have to be careful about comments flying around on the 'net, and take them with a pinch of salt.  Many seem to come from those who refuse to accept anything less than Tamiya standards of fit, or perhaps tried a kit from an East European short-run company a decade or two back and assume that the same criticisms still apply to a more-modern well-tooled kit such as the A-20.  That said, making sure that internal bulkheads and floors do fit the inner volume of the fuselage is still a wise precaution - even the current Airfix Spitfire Mk.I suffers from this - but we are not talking about anything like the notorious Roden Heinkel He111.  I believe that the A-20 does suffer from the nose to fuselage mismatch (as does their Blenheim), but this is easily fixed by a small strip of plasticard between the joins top and bottom.  That may even help with internal bulkheads - let me know, I've yet to get that far with mine.  Too many kits, too little time.

Excellent point, Graham. Sanding down the bulkheads on many kits helps to get the fuselage halves together tightly with little or no gap to fill, as well as cockpit floors, as it seems they are almost always a little too wide. Funny- don't remember having that problem on my old Lindberg B-17G; lots of bulkheads and turret assemblies to fit between the halves, but if you could hold one half just right on its side, you could get the other half to close before the tube glue (Had to be Revell Type S- the best styrene glue ever!) got too tacky! Guess I'm giving away my age with that one!

Mike

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You'll definitely want to replace those main wheels. Also, when assembling the fuselage sections, glue the nose halves to their respective main fuselage halves this will help avoid some fit problems in that area. That's for the "bomber" versions, I don't know about the A-20G or the P-70. Eduard had a couple of pretty good sets for them, Vector makes some nice resin for the cockpit and nose sections. True details wheel sets include the liferaft that sits on a shelf behind the pilot. While I like the raft, I think their wheels are to "flat" for my tastes. There are plenty of other aftermarket bits available including conversion, exhausts, intakes, cockpit, etc.

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While the SH ones are currently the state of the art (and what I will build), I have seen quite good builds of the HPM and  Frog ones with a lot of work put into them.

If you want anyone to find this thread in future you might replace B-20 (which was a development of the B-15 and the predecessor of the B-29) with A-20 in the title. @kitman

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On ‎5‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 4:32 AM, viscount806x said:

Here:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Revell-03939-P-70-Nighthawk-Model/dp/B01J5WGOMG/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1527156973&sr=8-3&keywords=Revell+Nighthawk

 

This is the Revell issue of the MPM/SH A20B/C/BostonIII/IIIA. It is a good price and an excellent point is that it contains lots of extra bits of plastic for the various MPM/SH versions (including the Turbinlite variant and other noses including 4 gun and 12 gun 'Boulton Paul' and transparencies for A20B, C  or DB7A) plus early and late exhaust arrangements,  which are usually clipped off the sprues by SH before packaging for the appropriate versions. Only things missing that I can see are the 'Alligator' exhausts for the night intruder/Turbinlite versions but SH will sell you pairs of those separately (resin) if you ask them nicely, said alligators come also with resin 'vented' cowlings for early French DB7As (which mostly ended as Havoc IIs with the RAF).  The 1cm dia clear disc for the Turbinlite nose isn't there but all the other Turbinlite nose parts are. Anyone with a craft knife can cut and file a clear disc though can't they? The half price kits off the SH 'site are about the same as the above pricewise but one only gets the parts for the specific version included, unlike the fantastic value (£15 variable) Revell issue above. The postage is expensive too, to UK anyway. If you get the Revell issue off Amazon, it's post free.

 

The High Planes are good too but need a lot of work and nowhere near the top value of the above kit.

 

Other versions in 1/72 are nice to see and hold for nostalgia but all are very old and inaccurate: Airfix, Frog, Revell (old kit) all need major work and such things as prop replacements etc. 

 I've gone onto Super Hobby to check out this kit and I couldn't see any parts for the Boulton-Paul 12-gun nose. Can't see it on any of the Special Hobby releases either. Is that for an upcoming release?

 

Chris

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Hi

   pretty sure they are here on the sprue next to the belly pack

 

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Revell/Rev_Douglas_P-70/Rev_Douglas_P-70.html

 

on the sprue next to the turbinlite stuff 

 

  cheers

    jerry

Edited by brewerjerry
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Yes, that sprue section is marked Havoc NF.II. Wonder however how Volker put his text together. „The first Cyclone A-20 had its first flight in Nov. 1940“  - while that may  be correct for the A, I have my doubts as the first French DB-7As were del‘d before the fall of France IIRC. „The Havoc II was based on the A-20B/C“ - well not really...

Interesting that according to the review Revell uses Glow2B as distributors now?!?

Edited by tempestfan
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8 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

   pretty sure they are here on the sprue next to the belly pack

 

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Revell/Rev_Douglas_P-70/Rev_Douglas_P-70.html

 

on the sprue next to the turbinlite stuff 

 

  cheers

    jerry

It's a racing certainty Jerry, I have a kit here right in front of me. When I posted a day or two back, I used the sprues to construct the parts list which I quoted.

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On 5/26/2018 at 6:48 AM, tempestfan said:

Yes, that sprue section is marked Havoc NF.II. Wonder however how Volker put his text together. „The first Cyclone A-20 had its first flight in Nov. 1940“  - while that may  be correct for the A, I have my doubts as the first French DB-7As were del‘d before the fall of France IIRC. „The Havoc II was based on the A-20B/C“ - well not really...

Interesting that according to the review Revell uses Glow2B as distributors now?!?

I firmly believe that the 99(100 originally)  French ordered DB-7As were diverted to UK before any deliveries took place to our Gallic allies, indeed there is a photo of the prototype AH430) test flying in the U.S. in RAF markings incl. serial number and with the early A20B nose glazing, i.e. not 'sloping'. I never saw any other pictures with the clear plexiglass noses on any RAF Bostons, because all were converted into Havoc IIs after unloading at Liverpool, many being fitted with Martin Baker 12 gun noses (40 ish airframes) and some to Turbinlite Havoc IIs. None seem to have remained with clear noses. Confusingly, several Boston IIIs (DB-7B, A20-B config but sloping nose glazing)  were also converted to Turbinlite confguration too. Recognisation feature for a genuine ex French DB-7A with R2600 engines are the ventilation holes around the cowlings to give additional cylinder cooling pending a redesign, featured in the DB-7B/A20B. Then you have the so called 'universal variant' A-20C which were delivered later and which with their various improvements (engines R2600-23, 24V electrics +) were designated Boston IIIA in RAF service. Boston 1s were the 'small fin R1830 engined DB-7s, ex French and Boston IIs were the same aircraft with better R-1830s featuring 2 speed superchargers but still the 'small fin'. All became Havoc Is in one form or another ..

It is a quite muddled picture and demands some careful study. Not helped by slight human errors over the years by various authors and/or printers who have mistakenly used Boston II or Havoc III etc. etc.

 

To reiterate my own preference in 1:72, the SH kits are the best bet with the Revell 03939 P-70 'Nighthawk' issue of said SH kit being the top jobby of the lot. At around £15 post paid (UK) it's difficult to ignore if the big fin Boston is your baby. You won't even have to source replacement props as with the 'classic kits' and this would be very hard these days with Aeroclub ones now virtually unavailable although John Adams has helped me there out of the kindness of his heart, how I miss Aeroclub Models and their fantastic range of metal accessories ! Thanks John for all you did for us.

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12 hours ago, brewerjerry said:

Hi

   pretty sure they are here on the sprue next to the belly pack

 

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstLook/Revell/Rev_Douglas_P-70/Rev_Douglas_P-70.html

 

on the sprue next to the turbinlite stuff 

 

  cheers

    jerry

 

Ah, yes! There it is. Thanks, Jerry.

 

 

Chris

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The Italeri P-70  kit is good and accurate, the A-20B/C kit is accurate for the French Boston IIIA (A-20C) or the A-20B but doesn't have the correct early engine cowls with the single exhaust for the RAF Boston III (DB-7B).

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The Havoc inspired two of my great projects of last year. One was based on this article.

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/demidov/demidov.htm

It is an interview with the navigator of a Russian torpedo bomber crew which flew over the Baltic hunting German ( and Swedish! ) ships in 1944 and 1945. The fascinating story is that they originally got delivered in the G "gunship" version. The Russians started flying them with the navigator squeezed in on that flat shelf behind the pilot and the gunner in his usual position in the back. This was unworkable and since they insisted on using navigator machines were successively sent to a workshop in Leningrad ( today's Petrograd ) to get converted back into the glazed nose version and only retained the side, foward firing machine guns. 

The kit was a combination of B and G. I needed the glazed nose from the B and the turret from the G so I used both kits to make one. If you attempt this do not assume that the nose is the same as in the B version, since the Russians had a different window arrangement. I basically had to sand mine down and "reglaze" then mask the new windows and paint to match the pictures. Then I had to custom build the two torpedo racks. The attacks were carried out with single torpedoes but ferrying missions were flown from Leningrad carrying two at a time. Added to that goes the flavor of painting the whole nose "Russian Green" over the standard OD/Medium Green/Gray scheme as well as painting out the white stars with discs of Russian green and applying the red stars over them. If I could only figure out this photo posting business here I would gladly share but that goes beyond my IT expertise so just the link here.

The other project was a standard G model used by an author of one of the best books I read recently. A great account of a ground attack pilot in love with his machine, kind of like Park's "Nanette".  4ed18ad3-3272-407a-93d7-841b0ab922b9_1.2

The kits needed for these are all made by the aforementioned AMT, a good kit that with the three different versions gives you flexibility to make anything you desire in 1/48. Good luck in your project.

Edited by serial modeler
wrong version
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Well, based on the discussion here, I bought a Revell Havoc kit.  Looks good, with - as has been mentioned - some nice spare bits.

 

I now have vague plans to build a Havoc II intruder and "Spirit of Sport".  For the first, I'd need the vented cowlings and hedgehog exhausts (I think).  Can't immediately see those advertised for sale on the SH website.  Any ideas?

 

For the latter - neglecting the fuse for the moment -  I think I'd just need to add the oval exhaust outlets behind the cowlings.  Is this as simple as drilling out the nacelles and adding a plastic tube cut at an angle, or is the cowling different too?

 

...expecting the answer: "it's much more complicated than that!"

 

Regards

 

Martin

  

 

 

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On my AMT 1/48th Boston, i just used a bit of plastic tubing, but cut them out with a bit of a "scallop", or a concave curve, rather than straight across...........if that is any help!!

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Thanks, Rod.

 

So, no change to the cowling then?  And what mark of Boston was it?

 

Regards

 

Martin

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