It’s alive! - 1/72nd Airfix Do17E conversion to Do17P Frankendornier

[Heather Kay]

11 minutes ago, CedB said:

Aha, a restart! I'll follow along if I may  

They’re all the rage, you know.  
 

There may not be an instant restart, as I have a metric butt tonne of real work to do. The bench is currently full of Southern Railway coaches.

[Heather Kay]

I found a spare half-hour or so to try and do something.

 

 

It appears I had made an abortive attempt at the rear engine nacelles. At first glance, they didn’t look too bad, so I stuck some masking tape where I didn’t want file marks on the wings and set to with a large hand file. The folly of this soon became apparent, because I had bodged things muchly in my original attempt. There’s a large void which soon became apparent as the dark green plastic disappeared under the file. 
 

 

A poor effort at filling with Squadron putty. I’ll let it set, and have a think about things again. I’m thinking I may cut the nacelles back further, and rebuild. I can either use sheet styrene to give me the characteristic knife edge at the back end, or plug the things with Milliput and carve and sand to shape. It depends on how messy I want to be, I suppose. I also remember why this build ended up on the Shelf of Doom… 

 

Now, at this point I very nearly succumbed to temptation. There are kits out there of the Do17K, and one has the right nacelle shape. It has the wrong engines, but then so has what I’m trying to make here. The cockpit area of the kit is wrong, though, being the earlier export variant, and do I really want to punt thirty quid on a kit I’ll end up butchering for parts? I think you can work out the answer. So, I shall plough on with this monster, although I shall do some digging around to see if there are suitable aftermarket parts for the correct BMW radials. I feel that once I have the nacelle shape sorted, the main construction and modifications will be a walk in the park.

 

Ha! Famous last words. 

[JOCKNEY]

Great work Heather

Thats a lot of work you have taken on, look forward to seeing the next instalment. 

Cheers Pat 

[CedB]

Oh rats, what a pain… worth soldiering on though Heather IMHO  

[Marklo]

Nice work Heather. I recall scratch building a 1/72 bmw 801 many years for my first (and possibly only) attempt at super detailing and I don’t remember it being that difficult the cylinders are so close packed it’s all about the cylinder heads and the exhaust manifolds. That said I bet there are scads of resin ones on eBay.

 

oh and I’m with Martian on the community notwithstanding the name ( I’m not British, but that said, technically , mrs M is) this is a great community.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Marklo

[Heather Kay]

1 hour ago, Marklo said:

That said I bet there are scads of resin ones on eBay.

Thanks Marklo. I’ll have a rummage about the interwebs in due course. I’m finding it hard to pin down some details, because at least one of my references seems to imply the 17M and P had the same engines as the 17Z. Logically, that would make sense, since the Z was the most numerous variant, and spares would be more readily available. 
 

Anyway, after a morning of car-related shenanigans, where it seems more money must be thrown at it (ABS/brake disc sensor, and a pair of new front tyres. 😕 ), I had a further look at where I was with the nacelles.

 

 

Oh … bother! 
 

Well, it’s forced my hand. A better solution must be found. While I’m at it, I think replacing the flaps would be a sensible thing, since they have huge holes in them. 
 

While I get back to the day job, I’ll consider cutting the nacelles back to the aft end of the wheel wells. This would help me narrow the shape to better match the real thing. The question then arises of how to reconstruct, and I’m thinking perhaps shaped styrene bulkheads with styrene skinning.

[Graham Boak]

The M and P had the Bramo 323A engine, the Z had the Bramo 323D.   So only the same engine as in basic type, with quite likely some spares carry-across, but I don't know what if any external differences there were.  The Z does appear to have a slightly more open cowling, which is sensible enough for a more powerful engine but is based on a photo of the MV2.  Source of the above Classic's Do.215 by Mikael Olrog.

 

I think that I'd try a central keel to the profile shape, then putty it up using the (at least most of the) remains of the old nacelle tail rather than cutting it back fully.  Tidy up the flap and rear of the wing first.

[Martian]

Car related shenanigans? Try running a TR7 with a temperament that many prima donnas would be envious.

 

Having had a look at those nacelles, I think I would laminate some plastic card together and carve it to the shape required.

 

Helpful of Mars 👽

[Marklo]

It’s not by any chance a Ford Focus? I’m slowly rebuilding mine, it’s had new shocks and struts, a timing belt, an alternator (the second replacement I might add), a fuel filter and a battery in the last 18 months  I probably would have bought a newer one for the money spent.

 

as for the dornier I’d cut the nacelles  back to the nearest square panel line, add in a plastic card profile and miliput the shape. But there are so many alternative approach’s that could be used.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Marklo

[Andy350]

Looking forward to this one progressing.

 

[Heather Kay]

8 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Try running a TR7 with a temperament that many prima donnas would be envious.

Being a bit of a petrolhead, I do occasionally harbour idle dreams of owning and running a classic car of some description. These idle dreams are reinforced when problems arise on most modern cars that may affect electronics in some way, shape or form. I can’t just get under the bonnet with a seven-eighths inch ring spanner and fix it. I need a fully equipped workshop with computers and a degree in astrophysics. 
 

27 minutes ago, Marklo said:

It’s not by any chance a Ford Focus?

Happily, no.  

 

It’s a Skoda, just over a decade old now. I have to say, it’s been pretty reliable over the five years we've owned it, and not cost us much in maintenance overall. This year, though, mechanical bits have been wearing out. The front wheel bearings had to be replaced, and we had the brake discs done at the same time. Yesterday, having found what is causing the brake pad warning light to appear - the ABS and pad sensor exist only on the near side front wheel, it seems, and it’s possible an encounter with a deep puddle at speed might have damaged the cable recently - we know what needs fixing and roughly how much. Having the wheels off also revealed one front tyre has worn badly, to the point of illegality, so a new pair of boots for the front wheels is a priority. The brake warning thing is an annoyance, and an MOT failure, but otherwise can be essentially ignored for the moment. I’m not a heavy braker at all, so failed ABS shouldn’t be an issue.

 

As for the nacelles, I agree. I am considering all the ideas currently mentioned, and should have a decision later. Meanwhile, aside from tyre hunting, I shall be mostly working on Southern Railway coach roof gutters. Such a life I lead.

9 minutes ago, Andy350 said:

Looking forward to this one progressing.

 

So am I! 

[stever219]

1 hour ago, Heather Kay said:

The brake warning thing is an annoyance, and an MOT failure, but otherwise can be essentially ignored for the moment. I’m not a heavy braker at all, so failed ABS shouldn’t be an issue.

Sod’s Law says that you’re about to need your ABS; it’s like Martin Baker seats, there for when you really need it.  Like the rest of us you’ll never know when someone’s going to pull out in front of you, or something’s going to fall off the back of the lorry in front or some other 5h1t is going to happen one wet or icy day that needs you to pull up quickly and under full control.  Please be careful, it’s a jungle out there (other hazardous environments are available, ask your stockist for details).

[Heather Kay]

7 minutes ago, stever219 said:

Please be careful,

Thanks Steve. I do my best. I passed my advanced test nigh on three decades ago now. I like to think I’m one of the safe ones out there. I don’t speed, I leave safe distances, I read the road ahead, all that jazz. You are correct, however, that you never know when ABS might be needed. Fixing it will happen once we get a quote sorted from the astrophysics lab. 

 

Then again, I learned cadence braking in my 1978 Vauxhall Chevette.  

[stever219]

Thanks Heather.  Although I’m a non-driver I do cycle when I can and, like you, I’m old school.  Sadly there are too many idiots on the roads and pavements these days to take chances with.  My dad also took the advanced test but one dark and dirty night in East Kent his Mitsubishi Colt wound up as some of the meat in a four-car sandwich because the dingbat at the back hadn’t noticed that he had three cars stopped ahead of him trying to turn right.  Maybe the advanced driving test should be made mandatory?

[Heather Kay]

Right, after a couple of days of domestic and work stuff, the brain cell has formulated something of a plan.

 

 

Before nacelle reconstruction can begin, though, I had to excise the flaps so they could be rebuilt. I’m not going to open them. I did that on my two-decade-old build of the 17Z from the Revell kit. The thing is, cutting the flaps out leaves the trailing edge of the under wing half very thin and vulnerable. I decided the wings really had to be stuck together for the next stages, so here we are. There’s some twist in the top half, after some time in the loft and at all kinds of temperatures, but I think some careful clamping will deal with that in due course.

 

Having the upper wing half in place will give me something to build against for the replacement flap infills and the nacelles. You’ll notice I have cut the nacelle rears back a bit further, mainly because there wasn’t much meat left after previous bodging. It also gives a neat edge to rebuild from.

 

 

Happily I have a near scale drawing I can use to give me the profile shape I need. My plan is to make a styrene spine to the right shape, and then add shaped styrene to it to give the section profiles, then fill in with putty. It might work.

Edited November 28, 2019 by Heather Kay

[Nikolay Polyakov]

Such an excellent thread, Heather! I’m glad that you’re having a mojo to pull this kit from the shelf and start again. Looking forward to seeing more interesting thoughts and pictures here. 😉

[TheBaron]

1 hour ago, Heather Kay said:

My plan is to make a styrene spine to the right shape, and then add shaped styrene to it to give the section profiles, then fill in with putty. It might work.

Sounds eminently practical.

 

This isn't the close enough to be the required engine is it?

https://www.ebay.com/c/1339622062

 

 

[Heather Kay]

10 hours ago, TheBaron said:

This isn't the close enough to be the required engine is it?

I’d say that was pretty close, if not bob on. However, having reviewed photos, most of the detail is lost in the cowling, with various support struts and a big old propellor and spinner in the way. It certainly looks okay on the old 17Z I built, so I shall go in that direction. I understand the differences between 17M/P and Z are mostly inside the cowling.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Heather Kay

[Heather Kay]

I was on a bit of a roll last evening, so I let myself have a day off from paying work to make some positive progress.

 

 

Scrap styrene sheet was put into the gaping wounds to support the wing structure better during what is to come. It also gave somewhere a bit more positive to locate the replacement flaps and nacelle fillers.

 

 

The slight twist in the ancient and brittle moulded plastic needed some brutal clamping to fix. I think I won, although there’s still a bit of a twist. I doubt it’ll notice once I’ve finished mauling things. Some styrene reinforcement seemed sensible inside the cowling areas to make sure they didn’t pop open again. Pleased, so far.

 

 

Some more scrap styrene sheet was found that was about the right thickness for the flaps. It needed to touch inside the upper wing at the trailing edge. I wasn’t bothered if it was slightly proud, because I will sand it all down flush later on. To get the trapezoidal shape of the flaps, I stuck some masking tape over the hole, making sure it was reasonably taut, and rubbed the edges down, followed up by pencil lines. Transferring the tape to the styrene, I cut the shape out slightly over size so I could trim and sand it back to being a good fit. The first result is at the top, marked so I could remember which wing it was meant for. Happy with that. 

 

After some careful trimming and sanding, it fits nicely. Careful application of liquid cement all round the edges, and time to work on the other.

 

 

Here's the state of play, with nacelle plugs also made up in a similar fashion to the flaps. Once the glue has set and it’s all nice and firm, I’ll set about it with sanding sticks to get it all to the wing level.

I suppose I’d better get back to work now. 

[Heather Kay]

 

Now, that’s looking promising. How about from other directions?

 

 

 

I think we're onto something here. I might need a lie down for bit. 

[Pete in Lincs]

That's the way to do it! Catch up completed and now wondering if the Skoda factory that built your car, also built engines for certain Aeroplanes way back?

Enjoy the lie down.

[Greg Law]

Looking good Heather.  Good to see you doing  a Do 17P? It will go well with your collection. These were used at the beginning of the Battle of Britain for reconnaissance. 

[alt-92]

12 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

That's the way to do it! Catch up completed and now wondering if the Skoda factory that built your car, also built engines for certain Aeroplanes way back?

Enjoy the lie down.

They did build tanks, so there's that... and Avia was a Skoda Works subsidiary before 1945.

[Heather Kay]

13 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

now wondering if the Skoda factory that built your car

I don’t know. It might be fun to find out.

1 hour ago, Greg Law said:

These were used at the beginning of the Battle of Britain for reconnaissance. 

The very reason I wanted one. I understand the type was used during the Polish invasion, but was fairly quickly replaced by the Z. The Ms and Ps did linger on quite a while, as I’ve seen a reference to them being used for training and as glider tugs.

5 minutes ago, alt-92 said:

They did build tanks

My car isn’t quite like a tank, thankfully.  It’s my first Skoda, and it probably won’t be the last.

[Hook]

19 hours ago, Heather Kay said:

I think we're onto something here. 

I would tend to agree.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre