Spitfire Mk.22 x 2 - Airfix 1/72

[CedB]

Ooooh, a quiz! Thanks Rob!  

Is it 'Bristol Aerospace'? 

 

I have the Airfix Dogfight double in the stash but that models ZA177 from 809 NAS flown by Flight Lt. David Morgan DSC. Operation Corporate - HMS Hermes, South Atlantic | June 1982...

I wonder why they chose that and not XZ457? Apparently that one crashed in Jan '83.

[TheBaron]

5 hours ago, Rob G said:

 

Hmm. Spot the error. Mind boggling, actually.

 

Text centered like that rather than being aligned to the left just beggars belief doesn't it? Well spotted Rob.

 

[Rob G]

A coconut for Mr Ced! And The Baron gets a wooden spoon for being silly.

[Pete in Lincs]

Dotted all around Lincoln (I haven't seen them anywhere else) are small concrete plinths

which have a 'wing' shape mounted on top to celebrate 100 years of the RAF.

They all have script printed on them to tell that story.

One, up by the Cathedral, has information about a certain Aircraftsman Shaw.

Who, apparently, on his Brough motorcycle, was a familiar site (yes) around the Lincolnshire lanes.

[Rob G]

So much for the ejdumacayshun system, eh?

 

I see that sort of thing everywhere I look, including in the mine site induction that I suffered through on Friday. These 'packages' cost someone about 50k per site - wish I could get a share of that, my versions would be proper 'n' all.

[Biggles87]

Empennage eh, there's technical. It looks like you managed a decent  wing to fuselage fit, I hope the underside improved after you removed the lumpy bits. 

I think the filler caps were slightly recessed, how about drilling a hole and inserting a pieces of rod/sprue into it so that it sits just below the surface, it might be a bit fiddly in your chosen scale but I've done it on 1/48 and 1/32 Spitfires.

 

John

[keefr22]

I'd go for the rescribed circle filler cap plan Ced - will you actually even see it on the ceiling.... even if they're flying inverted?! 😄

 

Keith

[CedB]

7 hours ago, TheBaron said:

Text centered like that rather than being aligned to the left just beggars belief doesn't it? Well spotted Rob.

 

7 hours ago, Rob G said:

A coconut for Mr Ced! And The Baron gets a wooden spoon for being silly.

Centred text was in vogue for a while

But now it's not so trendy

It is still used for poetry

And there I'd better, er, endy.

Thanks for the coconut Rob... now, where's my nut cracker.

 

6 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

Dotted all around Lincoln (I haven't seen them anywhere else) are small concrete plinths

which have a 'wing' shape mounted on top to celebrate 100 years of the RAF.

They all have script printed on them to tell that story.

One, up by the Cathedral, has information about a certain Aircraftsman Shaw.

Who, apparently, on his Brough motorcycle, was a familiar site (yes) around the Lincolnshire lanes.

Thanks Pete  For those ignoramuses ignorami like me (but I did do Latin for a year), that's T.E. Lawrence eh? Din' 'e right buks and fings?

Mrs B is an English teacher and is continually outraged by the rampant use of the apostrophe. I keep meaning to get her one of those T-Shirts with this on:

 

 

6 hours ago, Rob G said:

So much for the ejdumacayshun system, eh?

 

I see that sort of thing everywhere I look, including in the mine site induction that I suffered through on Friday. These 'packages' cost someone about 50k per site - wish I could get a share of that, my versions would be proper 'n' all.

Get a T-Shirt Rob! Plenty to choose from on the 'net.  

 

4 hours ago, Biggles87 said:

Empennage eh, there's technical. It looks like you managed a decent  wing to fuselage fit, I hope the underside improved after you removed the lumpy bits. 

I think the filler caps were slightly recessed, how about drilling a hole and inserting a pieces of rod/sprue into it so that it sits just below the surface, it might be a bit fiddly in your chosen scale but I've done it on 1/48 and 1/32 Spitfires.

 

John

Thanks John - I fink it's French(ish)? One of my favourite words now, learned from BM, and so much easier than 'the fin, rudder, tailplanes and elevators'...

The underside fit is much better and has had some filler, but needs a bit of a sand too. More later (if I remember).  

 

3 hours ago, keefr22 said:

I'd go for the rescribed circle filler cap plan Ced - will you actually even see it on the ceiling.... even if they're flying inverted?! 😄

 

Keith

Thanks Keith, will do  

 

 

In fact done. Some filler in the small gaps:

 

 

... then swiped off with a damp cotton bud:

 

[Azgaron]

Looking good!

 

Håkan

 

[Spookytooth]

They look a nice pair....Ced.

I thought I would put that in for a Finbar Saunders.

 

Simon.

[CedB]

Thanks Hakan and Simon (fnaar!)  

 

 

A couple of pictures for John on the sanded wing flares:

 

 

 

I'm never sure if there should be a panel line where the wing joins the fuselage at the back. I've 'sort of filled' it.

 

Canopies on with Gator's Grip:

 

 

I'll leave those to dry while I power what to do about the cannons...

[bbudde]

Looking good together Ced. Have a nice weekend all with that nice weather today. Perfect for a barbecue.

 

[Azgaron]

Progressing nicely Ced!

 

Håkan

 

[Rob G]

6 hours ago, CedB said:

Centred text was in vogue for a while

But now it's not so trendy

It is still used for poetry

And there I'd better, er, endy.

 

Thanks for the coconut Rob... now, where's my nut cracker.

 

 

Word of advice - stick to your day job, poetry isn't your métier. Not to say you shouldn't try it, but...

 

Nut cracker? I'll send a 14lb sledge hammer along.

[CedB]

Thanks Benedikt, nice sausages

Thanks Haken, getting on to page 2 soon!  

Thanks Rob - what you don't like my poetry? I'm mortified...  

 

Cannon:

 

 

 

Or cannot? See what I did there? Oh, suit yourselves...

Perhaps a little bit of tube behind the outer ones? Do I have any the right size? Stay tuned for the next exciting episode...

 

In the meantime I've been thinking about my inability to drill holes, easily.

I've ordered a tool thing but I'm sure it's going to be too big.

I'm thinking, what if I get some tube that a very small drill fits into, put a cone on the end so it's like a tiny funnel, and that would guide the drill to the centre of the rod so I can drill a guide hole.

As usual, my searches on the 'net have proved fruitless as I have no idea what such a thing might be called. Rats.

[Teuchter]

Sounds like the inside of a propelling pencil.... with the drill replacing the lead?

Don

[bbudde]

23 minutes ago, CedB said:

Thanks Benedikt, nice sausages

Sorry Ced.

Nice work on the Spitfires. I can't judge on any kind of Mk.?, if correct and I really don't bother about it  The same for me on a Ju 87-B1 or B2 or a Me109 E1 to E3 or 4 as long as it's not really visible. Cheers

[philp]

Guns, guns, guns.

 

Hmm, you do look a little short to be a 20mm cannon.

[Rob G]

Finding centres can be a right royal pain. One way is to use a black permanent marker to lightly paint the bit you want to drill (adds contrast), then use a pin in a pin vice as a teeny tiny centre punch to lightly mark centre. Having an actual point instead of the splayed drill tip makes it easier to find. Mark lightly, then use the old Mk.1 eyeball to see if the mark is centred. If not, recalculate where it needs to be and try again. Keep going until you get it, then make a deeper punch mark in the accurate light mark, and drill in that. I find that I usually get it after 2 or 3 tries- more than that, repaint with the marker and start again or it gets confuzzling. Honestly easier to do than it is to explain. And you won't say 'mark' as many times, either.

 

As for the actual drilling- try your very hardest to start the hole vertically. I find that holding the piece in one hand and the pin vice in the other in one direction  gives me accuracy, while swapping them around gives me speed. It may be the same for everyone, it may be because I'm a lefty and drills rotate the wrong way <shrug> Either way, start drilling with light pressure and use both sight and feel to align things, turning the piece as needed to check alignment at 90° planes. I find that a blank background works best for this, so that there's no extra lines in view to lead the old eyes astray.

 

Start with a drill about half the finished hole diameter, then use one about 3/4, then full. You can skip the intermediate 3/4 size if you have lots of material around the edge, but removing small amounts saves stretching and tearing if you're close to an edge. Drill a little, then pull the bit out and clean the swarf away from the flutes. Put it back in, drill a little, pull it out etc. This prevents stretching the plastic and allows the drill to centre better. If you're drilling flat sheet, just make a hole large enough to get a tapered broach through, then use that for the whole hole -much more accurate, and you can cut extremely close to edges with a broach. Note that broaches don't do blind holes very well, unless you're lucky enough to be making a hole that matches the tip of a broach.

 

Practice is key, this all takes time to learn the feel of it. Practice on sprue offcuts flatted across the end, stretched thinner if you so desire.

 

A set of digital vernier calipers is a godsend for this kind of work, it allows easy sizing of rod and drills and is kinder on the eyes than the small numbers printed onto micro drill boxes- my digital set cost me about $30 15+ years ago from a chain auto supply shop, and they're accurate to .01mm. They also do Imperial for the times that it's needed. Good enough for what I need, even if they'd never survive a day in a production environment. At the very least, they're good for gross comparisons - measure a piece, lock the slide, then offer up other pieces to get a bigger/smaller indication. Something like these is all that's needed

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?storeId=10001&amp;productId=1031339&amp;categoryId=318447&amp;langId=-1&amp;catalogId=10151

 

you'll no doubt find them even cheaper on eBay, and cheaper again if you go analogue scale, but then you'd also need new glasses to see the numbers and to learn how to interpret what you see (not difficult once you know how, but wrapping your head around the concept can be. Or maybe that was just me.) Digital is easier, trust me. I have both and use the analogue set for the gross work, the digital for when I really need the numbers.

 

Right, after Tolstoy finished his epic, he... I dunno, went and had a beer. Probably. I'm going to have a late breakfast. Hopefully there's something of value in the above, even if it is only a recommendation to buy a new tool. Feel free to ask for clarifications etc, or indeed to just ignore the whole lot.

[TheBaron]

17 hours ago, CedB said:

T.E. Lawrence eh? Din' 'e right buks and fings?

Including The Mint, a superbly readable account of his time in the RAF, from working on aircraft to shovelling shitt:

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/the-mint/author/t-e-lawrence/

17 hours ago, CedB said:

Mrs B is an English teacher and is continually outraged by the rampant use of the apostrophe. 

Your fragrant lady has my admiration for her stand against the wholly regrettable  linguistic recidivism of our times Ced.

 

@Rob Gs advice about drilling sounds spot on - in my experience there's no shortcut to getting a job like that done well.

10 hours ago, Rob G said:

 Word of advice - stick to your day job, poetry isn't your méti

'An erudite modeller called Rob

Once gave sage advice on a job.

But wouldn't you know it,

His disdain for the poet,

Means I should best shut me gob.'

 

[CedB]

10 hours ago, Teuchter said:

Sounds like the inside of a propelling pencil.... with the drill replacing the lead?

Don

Thanks Don - great idea!  I had a look at my propelling pencils but neither were suitable - too big at the open end and I want that to 'centre' the part...

10 hours ago, bbudde said:

Sorry Ced.

Nice work on the Spitfires. I can't judge on any kind of Mk.?, if correct and I really don't bother about it  The same for me on a Ju 87-B1 or B2 or a Me109 E1 to E3 or 4 as long as it's not really visible. Cheers

No need to apologise Benedikt!  I'm with you on the marks and admire those who can see a bump and say 'Ah, MkII'...

9 hours ago, philp said:

Guns, guns, guns.

 

Hmm, you do look a little short to be a 20mm cannon.

Thanks Phil - now corrected! See below  

8 hours ago, Rob G said:

Finding centres can be a right royal pain. One way is to use a black permanent marker to lightly paint the bit you want to drill (adds contrast), then use a pin in a pin vice as a teeny tiny centre punch to lightly mark centre. Having an actual point instead of the splayed drill tip makes it easier to find. Mark lightly, then use the old Mk.1 eyeball to see if the mark is centred. If not, recalculate where it needs to be and try again. Keep going until you get it, then make a deeper punch mark in the accurate light mark, and drill in that. I find that I usually get it after 2 or 3 tries- more than that, repaint with the marker and start again or it gets confuzzling. Honestly easier to do than it is to explain. And you won't say 'mark' as many times, either.

 

As for the actual drilling- try your very hardest to start the hole vertically. I find that holding the piece in one hand and the pin vice in the other in one direction  gives me accuracy, while swapping them around gives me speed. It may be the same for everyone, it may be because I'm a lefty and drills rotate the wrong way <shrug> Either way, start drilling with light pressure and use both sight and feel to align things, turning the piece as needed to check alignment at 90° planes. I find that a blank background works best for this, so that there's no extra lines in view to lead the old eyes astray.

 

Start with a drill about half the finished hole diameter, then use one about 3/4, then full. You can skip the intermediate 3/4 size if you have lots of material around the edge, but removing small amounts saves stretching and tearing if you're close to an edge. Drill a little, then pull the bit out and clean the swarf away from the flutes. Put it back in, drill a little, pull it out etc. This prevents stretching the plastic and allows the drill to centre better. If you're drilling flat sheet, just make a hole large enough to get a tapered broach through, then use that for the whole hole -much more accurate, and you can cut extremely close to edges with a broach. Note that broaches don't do blind holes very well, unless you're lucky enough to be making a hole that matches the tip of a broach.

 

Practice is key, this all takes time to learn the feel of it. Practice on sprue offcuts flatted across the end, stretched thinner if you so desire.

 

A set of digital vernier calipers is a godsend for this kind of work, it allows easy sizing of rod and drills and is kinder on the eyes than the small numbers printed onto micro drill boxes- my digital set cost me about $30 15+ years ago from a chain auto supply shop, and they're accurate to .01mm. They also do Imperial for the times that it's needed. Good enough for what I need, even if they'd never survive a day in a production environment. At the very least, they're good for gross comparisons - measure a piece, lock the slide, then offer up other pieces to get a bigger/smaller indication. Something like these is all that's needed

 

http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductMobileDisplay?storeId=10001&amp;productId=1031339&amp;categoryId=318447&amp;langId=-1&amp;catalogId=10151

 

you'll no doubt find them even cheaper on eBay, and cheaper again if you go analogue scale, but then you'd also need new glasses to see the numbers and to learn how to interpret what you see (not difficult once you know how, but wrapping your head around the concept can be. Or maybe that was just me.) Digital is easier, trust me. I have both and use the analogue set for the gross work, the digital for when I really need the numbers.

 

Right, after Tolstoy finished his epic, he... I dunno, went and had a beer. Probably. I'm going to have a late breakfast. Hopefully there's something of value in the above, even if it is only a recommendation to buy a new tool. Feel free to ask for clarifications etc, or indeed to just ignore the whole lot.

Thanks Rob  I really appreciate you taking the time to explain, very kind of you and very helpful. 

I have a digital vernier and have used your advice (of course) - results below.

 

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

Including The Mint, a superbly readable account of his time in the RAF, from working on aircraft to shovelling shitt:

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/title/the-mint/author/t-e-lawrence/

Your fragrant lady has my admiration for her stand against the wholly regrettable  linguistic recidivism of our times Ced.

 

@Rob Gs advice about drilling sounds spot on - in my experience there's no shortcut to getting a job like that done well.

'An erudite modeller called Rob

Once gave sage advice on a job.

But wouldn't you know it,

His disdain for the poet,

Means I should best shut me gob.'

 

Thanks Tony  

"There's no shortcut"? Rats. Better slow down then and concentrate...

Great limerick, love it

 

 

OK, here we go. Patience topped up, concentration ON.

I have some plastic rod that's about the right size:

 

 

If it were tube, I'd be laughing, but it's not.  

Here's the start of my 'centring guide', just waiting for a funnel to guide the point (any more ideas?)

 

 

It does actually help me steady the bit without cutting my fingers, holding the rod and tube between the same fingers and 'feeling' the centre.

I also used Rob's tip of darkening the end and pricking a punch mark before starting a test drill:

 

 

Happy with that. How big a bit do I need (size is important, snurf snurf):

 

 

Transfer that to the mitre block and chop a bit off. Test length:

 

 

Looks OK? Three more, with a gratuitous tool shot:

 

 

... and some fuse wire CA'd in to help positioning and join strength:

 

 

Happy.

 

Of course I could have moulded four more from the long ones and cut them down but hey, I need the drilling practice.

I'll glue those on, then on to page 2 of the instructions!

[Beard]

Nice work Ced, although buying the Freightdog set or ignoring the issue would've need far easier.

[Hamden]

 

Nice fix to the cannon length problem 

 

  Roger

[giemme]

Smart fix, Ced!  

 

Ciao

[Rob G]

1 hour ago, TheBaron said:

erudite

 

Oi, that's a bit much innit? I ain't dumb y'know.