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Amy Johnsons last flight - Airspeed Oxford Mk II V3540 livery questions


Caerbannog

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Dear all,

 

I wonder if anybody has any info on what V3540 looked like.

 

The facts are: On 05-JAN-1941 Amy Johnson flew an Airspeed Oxford Mk II of Air Transport Auxiliary with the Registration: V3540 from RAF Squires Gate, Blackpool to RAF Kidlington but never arrived. Neither the Airspeed Oxford nor Amy Johnsons body was ever found.

 

I have the Special Hobby / Classic Airframes  Oxford Mk I / II kit and wonder if I can build V3540 someday in the future from the parts in the box with some home made decals. Having no clue at all I would go for a dark earth and dark green on top with yellow underside. Any ideas/suggestions?

 

Thanks!

 

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48 minutes ago, Caerbannog said:

Having no clue at all I would go for a dark earth and dark green on top with yellow underside

In the absence of a clue of my own or any better information from elsewhere, that is the scheme I would go with in your place :)

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

 

 

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 It's the book on the Oxford/Consul/Envoy but be warned that it is not the answer to a modeller's prayer, being largely made up of lists recording the career of every Oxford/... that ever lived and every unit that operated them.  There are not that many photos and many of those depict pre- or post-war aircraft.  Plus you'll probably have to sell your wife and children to buy a copy nowadays.

 

The full entry for V3540 reads: "5 FPP (Ferry Pilots' School); crashed in Thames Estuary, 5.1.41; presumed lost in bad weather."

 

It seems to me you need to answer 2 questions:

  • did V3540 have a dorsal turret?
  • where was the demarcation line between the upper DE/DG and underside Yellow? 

 

It belonged to a batch of 250 Oxford IIs serialled V3501-V3862 delivered between October 1940 and March 1941.  The nearest serial I can find to V3540 is a photo of the newly-built V3866, ie from the start of the immediately following batch of Oxford IIs, delivered between February 1941 and February 1942 (op cit, p.22): it has a turret and the demarcation line is mid-fuselage, running along the bottom sill of the cabin windows.

 

Have now looked more closely at the photo above and believe the caption is in error: not sure what the serial number is but the first character does not look like a V.  So it is no help as a pointer to the appearance of V3540.  An Oxford II ought not to have had a turret.

Edited by Seahawk
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Beeing an Oxford MkII I thought there was no turret installed on V3540.

I found pics of V3354 with high demarcation line and turret, so I guess this makes it a Mk I. Yes it does - just looekd it up.

 

Then I found a pic of 3388 taken in the seventies - a Mk II with low demarcation line:

Airspeed_AS-10_Oxford_I,_UK_-_Air_Force_

 

Not sure if this is correct or some artistic licence taken during restoration (though it looks not very much restored on the pic - but the different registration letters on the fuselage and under the wings is a bit strage I think).

 

A production line from 1941 seems to suggest the low demarcation line on these Mk IIs:

1434584316257.jpg

 

Edit: So if V3540 was lost on January 1941 and the batch was delivered between October 1940 and March 1941, V3540 must have been pretty much brand new. Which means the livery was maybe also up to the latest standards, which makes the picture above (if it is from 1941...) the best bet at the moment.

 

A picture of Oxfords at Kidlington taken in 1943 shows low demarcation.

 

I will check some reference and check if I can find any date on which a change from high to low demarcation took place. Or if the matter if high or low demarcation is a matter of with or without turret (gunnery practice) so a matter of Mk I or Mk II.

 

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2 hours ago, Caerbannog said:

I will check some reference and check if I can find any date on which a change from high to low demarcation took place. Or if the matter if high or low demarcation is a matter of with or without turret (gunnery practice) so a matter of Mk I or Mk II.

 

From AMO A.926/40 of 12/12/40, Section I, para 5 (v) "....Exception. - Aircraft whose undersurfaces are painted yellow (see para. 6 (ii) (b) below) [relating to the colouring of the undersurfaces of non-operational landplanes: my comment] are to have the upper surface camouflage extended downwards to cover the whole of the side surfaces of the fuselage."  Source: British Aviation Colours of World War Two, A&AP, 1976.

 

Assuming an even delivery rate for the batch of 250 aircraft across 6 months, V3540 should have been completed late October/early November 1940 which prima facie suggests the earlier demarcation.  

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  • 5 years later...

The AMO would apply to all aircraft, not just those on the production line.  I suspect that this is a case where an AMO would not be immediately applied in training units, but when the aircraft returned to an MU.  Either way there is certainly enough time before the final flight for this to be carried out.

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V3540 Oxford II V3540 Built by De Havilland Hatfield. Taken on Charge 1 November 1940, delivered to 45 MU 8 November, Provisionally Struck off Charge 5 January 1941.

 

From Air Publication 15965 8.: B—P.N, Pilot’s Notes:  The Oxford I is dual controlled and is equipped for navigation, wireless and bombing training. Provision is made for fitting a gun turret for gunnery training in the majority of aircraft. Later aircraft have no turret structure. The Oxford II is equipped for navigational and flying training only.

 

Before the adoption of mark numbers early production Oxfords used the terms advanced and intermediate to differentiate designate a mark I and a mark II respectively. This was probably changed in 1939 as can be seen in the second order from De Havilland, built in early 1940, originally for fifty advanced and twenty five intermediate it was first changed to fifty mark I and twenty five mark II then seventy five mark II, or seventy five intermediate, which is the source for reports of a mark I/II intermediate version, a designation which does not exist in RAF or MAP documentation.  To further complicate matters the RAF and RNZAF consider the first one hundred and ninety one Oxfords (the first two orders) from Airspeed Portsmouth to be mark I regardless of whether they were advanced or intermediate while the contract cards indicate fifty eight were intermediate (mark II).

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6 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The AMO would apply to all aircraft, not just those on the production line.  I suspect that this is a case where an AMO would not be immediately applied in training units, but when the aircraft returned to an MU.  Either way there is certainly enough time before the final flight for this to be carried out.

 

Possible but less likely, methinks.  There were Oxboxes at 4 FTS in Habbaniyah still sporting the high demarcation line in May 1941.  To me, the balance of probabilities leans towards Amy Johnson’s aircraft still having the high line….but we may never know for sure.

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The policy decision to extend the upper surface colours all the way down the sides of the fuselage on Training aircraft was made on 30 October 1940. 

 

Given that V3540 was taken on charge just two days later, I don't think that there would have been time for this decision to be made known to the RTO at deHavilland let alone for it to be acted upon prior to the aircraft being accepted by the Service. 

 

I don't have a copy of the instruction that is said to be dated 7 November. I do however have a partial transcript of Cypher X789 dated 27 November 1940 that states that 

"Following alteration in colouring and markings of aircraft are to be made effective as soon as possible.

1) In order to make them less conspicuous on the ground all aircraft whose undersurfaces are painted Yellow are to have the upper surface camouflage colours extended downwards to cover completely both sides of the fuselage."

 

Thus it would appear that though V3540 would probably have been delivered with the demarcation between the upper and under surface colours half way down the fuselage sides, by the time that it was lost in January 1941, there would have been time for the upper surface colours to have been extended down to the bottom of the fuselage as required by the revised policy.

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  • 2 weeks later...

So if V3540 was delivered on 2nd of November 1940 and the request to extend the camouflage came on 30th October 1940 ("are to be made effective as soon as possible") then I am pretty sure V3540 would have been delivered with the high demarcation line. I may be wrong but I guess it is quite unlikely that V3540 would have seen a repaint to the later standard in her first year at Kinloss before Amy Johnsons last flight on January 5th 1941?

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