Tweener Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 (edited) Which kit, either the Airfix Boston III, or old tool Revell A-20C would be more accurate to represent an A-20A or A-20B, and what changes would I need to make? Thanks, Tweener Edited May 12, 2018 by Tweener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 the Airfix Boston has some anemic engines and propellers ; you might want to beef them up. if the old Revell kit has the same engines and props as the P-70 night-fighter then you are good to go. the A-20A and A-20C have a slanted nose glazing and the A-20 and A-20B have a stepped nose glazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 Hello @Tweener ... heres the visual difference betweem angled and stepped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 There's the old FROG kit if you can find one. Not the most accurate A-20 out there, though. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Holden Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 4 hours ago, Tweener said: Which kit, either the Airfix Boston III, or old tool Revell A-20C would be more accurate to represent an A-20A or A-20B, and what changes would I need to make? Thanks, Tweener Revell is more accurate than Airfix, but 2008 MPM kit is much, much better than either. Not a shake and bake kit, but currently by far the best produced in 1/72. A-20A has a series of slots in the engine cowls not represented by any of the kits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 I am thinking on conversion MPM one to early Boston. Besides front glazing the main obvious difference is in cowling and also back of engine gondolas as well as the fin. I have found nice drawings in net. http://www.airplanesandrockets.com/airplanes/douglas-a-20-boston-havoc-plans-Nov-1970-AAM.htm Cheers J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 This kit has the stepped nose. https://www.cmkkits.com/en/aircraft/a-20b-havoc-mto/ This one has the extra parts to make an A-20. https://www.super-hobby.com/products/A-20B-C-Boston-with-UTK-1-Turret.html Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, JWM said: I am thinking on conversion MPM one to early Boston. Besides front glazing the main obvious difference is in cowling and also back of engine gondolas as well as the fin. I have found nice drawings in net. http://www.airplanesandrockets.com/airplanes/douglas-a-20-boston-havoc-plans-Nov-1970-AAM.htm Cheers J-W Hi Hiplanes do a fairly basic kit of a small tail boston/havoc by cross kitting you may save a bit of scratch building https://www.hpmhobbies.com/high-planes-douglas-havoc-1-raf-intruder-kit-1-72/ this link maybe of interest http://legendsintheirowntime.com/LiTOT/A20/A20_index.html cheers jerry Edited May 13, 2018 by brewerjerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Tweener, I also agree with JWM's assessment on the best kit to do the A-20/Boston that you want to build. You could use the old Revell kit; and if so, the stepped nose windows can be done by sanding off the framework of the kit part and re-painting the correct framework. IIRC, the rest of the kit would work, and I think the smaller carburetor air intakes are correct for the version you want to do. The nose, cockpit, and gunner's stations are pretty bad and will need some scratch building and/or etched parts to bring them up to snuff, especially if you want to do the pilot's canopy open, which has lots of interior lightening holes and a large life raft container, and the wheel bays and oil coolers will need to be detailed as well. IIRC, the oil cooler is visible in the wall of the wheel bay. The MPM kit would get you a better interior and wheel bays, but is a more expensive kit. Plus, the Revell kit needs to be scribed and the raised riveting dealt with. The Havoc/Boston sure was a pretty airplane, though, so don't be discouraged- go for it! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Forget both the Frog and the Airfix, the Airfix has a funny nose shape best appreciated on its photobox boxing. The Revell is basically accurate, and as it represents a Boston III, would be a basis for an A. The B has individual exhaust ports like the C, so would need some modding. The Alcorn/Bentley drawings Jerzy showed above are highly recommended whichever way you go. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael louey Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Hi Tweener, Another alternative is the Revell reboxing of the MPM kit - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/1012784-revell-03939-lockheed-p-70-nighthawk Though listed as a P-70 it has all the parts to make a A20C. It "may" be cheaper and more easily available in your area than the MPM kit. I picked up a couple at a closing down sale here in Australia. The only "issues" you would have would be decals and the fact the kit is moulded in black. Cheers Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Tweener, In William Wolf's book on the A-20, "The Douglas A-20- the Ultimate Look," he describes the following features that distinguished the A-20A from the A-20B. I have summarized them below, and maybe they will help you decide which kit comes closest to the version you want to build. If you want to do one of the earlier versions taken over by the RAF from original French contracts, I can help you with them. A-20A CW R-2600-11 engines; mechanical supercharger; early production aircraft had holes cut around the periphery of the cowlings for extra cooling; lower nose glazing was angled; nose section length was 67.5 inches; small carburetor air intakes; long rear nacelle tail cones; two .30cal nose guns which could be supplemented by two more .30cal guns enclosed in blisters on the lower nose; gunner had two .30cal guns, and there was a single .30cal tunnel gun A-20B CW R-2600-11 engines; mechanical superchargers; unvented engine cowlings; stepped lower nose glazing; nose section length was 75.8 inches; large carburetor air intakes; long rear nacelle tail cones; two .50cal nose guns enclosed in blisters on the lower nose; gunner had a single .50cal gun, and there was a single .30cal tunnel gun; there was the capability to mount a rearward firing .30cal gun in each nacelle, but there is no documentation that these were ever fitted. I was not aware of the difference in nose length between the two versions, but am guessing that the extra length was due to the larger .50cal guns fitted in the nose of the A-20B. I hope you will find this information useful. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 The cooling slots in the cowling are also present on early Boston III‘s, at least on one shown in a series of pre-delivery shots taken over LA (I think). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vppelt68 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 I bought the MPM A-20B Havoc "MTO" boxing, just a week ago. My kit contains both the stepped and slanted nose glazings. I'm quite tempted in finishing mine as a Boston... Should I just get the out of print- decal set I'm after. And as someone who just recently got interested in these Havocs/Bostons - great thanks for all this information! V-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 12 hours ago, Michael louey said: Hi Tweener, Another alternative is the Revell reboxing of the MPM kit - https://www.scalemates.com/kits/1012784-revell-03939-lockheed-p-70-nighthawk Though listed as a P-70 it has all the parts to make a A20C. It "may" be cheaper and more easily available in your area than the MPM kit. I picked up a couple at a closing down sale here in Australia. The only "issues" you would have would be decals and the fact the kit is moulded in black. Cheers Michael I wonder why Revell called it a " Lockheed " P-70 instead of a Douglas? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 1 hour ago, dogsbody said: I wonder why Revell called it a " Lockheed " P-70 instead of a Douglas? Chris I'm guessing because when Lockheed absorbed the other companies like Douglas, it's name disappeared in any advertising. I can't keep track of where Consolidated, Convair, Chance Vought, Vought, Douglas, Northrop, McDonnell, Boeing, North American, Fairchild, Republic, Grumman, Lockheed, and Curtiss are today. (Things were soooo much simpler then!) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 But it's historically inaccurate. And just plain (plane?) wrong in my opinion. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFlint Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 .....because Lockheed owns the rights to the name "Nighthawk" in relation to the A-117 Stealth Attack Airplane. (commonly mislabeled F-117 Stealth Fighter) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweener Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 I've picked up the Revell Boxing of the MPM P-70, hoping I can figure out how to use it's parts to make the A-20C, and if not, a P-70 is a good second option. Many thanks for all of the help from all of you! Tweener 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Hi instruction here for the A-20B, might be of help identifying relevant parts https://www.super-hobby.com/products/A-20B-Havoc-MTO.html cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 14 hours ago, 72modeler said: I'm guessing because when Lockheed absorbed the other companies like Douglas, it's name disappeared in any advertising. I can't keep track of where Consolidated, Convair, Chance Vought, Vought, Douglas, Northrop, McDonnell, Boeing, North American, Fairchild, Republic, Grumman, Lockheed, and Curtiss are today. (Things were soooo much simpler then!) Mike Northrop and Grumman are easy, they are N.-G. , unless there’s been another round of consolidation I missed... NAA has come to Boeing - at least various design rights - as have McDonnell, Douglas and Hughes (formerly MDD Helicopters). Rights to Consolidated and Convair should be with Lockheed via General Dynamics. Not sure with Fairchild Republic, but isn’t the A-10 also called Boring these days? Even if Nighthawk is a Lockheed Martin TM these days, the P-70 would be a Boeing product, ultimately. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Headroom Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 There is also the Matchbox A-20G. A much later mark and if I remember rightly, grossly oversized engines. However if you find one it may be a parts donor? Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted May 15, 2018 Share Posted May 15, 2018 IMHO the Matchbox kit is so crude that the MPM kit would be sow‘s eared by any parts from it, and I doubt it would improve any parts of the Revell kit. The only possible donor parts I see would be those for the G nose as a basis for the Boulton Paul 12-gunner, but it would probably need lengthening and reshaping. A P-70 nose may be a better starting point anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tweener Posted May 15, 2018 Author Share Posted May 15, 2018 6 hours ago, tempestfan said: IMHO the Matchbox kit is so crude that the MPM kit would be sow‘s eared by any parts from it, and I doubt it would improve any parts of the Revell kit. The only possible donor parts I see would be those for the G nose as a basis for the Boulton Paul 12-gunner, but it would probably need lengthening and reshaping. A P-70 nose may be a better starting point anyway. Boulton Paul 12 Gunner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 The B-P 12-gun nose that was used on mainly Havoc IIs but also on IIRC a few IIIs. - it’s so long ago that I did my trying to figure out the variants and possible combinations that I need a refresher course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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