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Endeavor

Sectioned and Channeled Pocher Alfa Spyder

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To my eyes, you used the better solution...
Flexibility of retouching, while keeping the structural rigidity.
I don't see a better one!

 

Dan.

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It's a total pleasure to follow your work, Sir!!

I'm thoroughly entertained...keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

 

Cheers, H

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Posted (edited)

With the rear deck taking shape, it's time to begin the attempt to turn the Pocher "dragon tail" into something more realistic.

 

The "dragon tail" is a poor fit for the stock body. The rear section of the part that is over the spares is too wide and too flat.  Without much adjusting, there will be large gaps between the tail and the deck.  Because the top of the rebuilt tire well is considerably narrower than that of the stock body, the fit is now even worse.

 

The plan is to thin the piece, make it more flexible, move it back about 6mm, reshape the fin and extend it forward, and bend the rear section to intersect with the edges of the tire well. I might have to scratch a new part.

 

I have reduced its width, substantially reduced the thickness of the plastic over it's rear half, and drilled holes for rivets. There is still much work to be done.   Before making further changes to the part, when the shape of the deck is finalized, I will see if I can make it fit.

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

Edited by Endeavor

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Posted (edited)

While making changes to the shape of the body, I am simultaneously attempting to eliminate the warps in the body and to make the body symmetrical. I should have attended to the warps long ago, some of which might have been done concurrently with the body modifications. The photo below shows the biggest warp, in the cowl, which exists in both the stock and modified bodies. The two bodies came out of their boxes with warps on different sides of their cowls.

 

image.jpg

 

 

It is essential to assess and to correct these problems while the body is bolted to the frame, because the warps and other contours change when the body is mounted.

 

I have neither the talent nor the courage to bend Pocher plastic with hot water or hot air, particularly with compound curves, which is where the problems are. So I have been cutting, adding material, sanding, and filing.

 

 image.jpg

 

 

In addition to addressing the warps, I must identify and correct the asymmetries created both by Pocher and by me while modifying the body.

 

I used wire to make templates for the front of the cowl. A contour gauge gauge proved to be essential, and I used it to make templates for several locations on the body. Below are four of the styrene templates I made to check the contours on four locations on each side of the rear body.

 

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The photo below shows that the cowl warp has been almost eliminated and that the cowl is now symmetrical and aligned properly with the leading edge of the rear deck. This photo also shows that the right side of the rear deck behind the hatch is too low and must be raised a bit.

 

The fuel tank attachments can slide on the tubular cross member and the tank and spare wheel mount are out of position in the photo.

 

You can also see a problem that I created. I positioned the spare tire well 0.5mm off center. This was the result of not utilizing proper jigs and fixtures, which are especially valuable when beginning a build with asymmetrical parts.  The left rear body panel is 1.0mm wider at the tail than the right rear panel. A single millimeter doesn't sound like much, but the difference was very apparent. This took some patience to correct.

 

image.jpg

 

 

Here is the body after the right side of the rear deck was raised a bit and after the asymmetry of the rear body panels was corrected.

 

image.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Endeavor

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Here is the front of the rebuilt cowl. The leading edge had to lowered so much on the passenger's side that it is now almost all Milliput.

 

image.jpg

 

 

Using styrene sheet and Milliput, I rebuilt the firewall to fit and support the new shape and dimensions of the cowl.

 

image.jpg

 

 

Here is the firewall in position. The sides of the cowl will be pulled in tight against the firewall when it is cemented in place.

 

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I welded two styrene pieces to the tops of the frame rails under the firewall to extend the raised panels on the tops of the rails. The two pieces are different lengths due to the asymmetry Pocher built into the rails.

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

 

 

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My God !!!! It's like your "restoring" a real car !!!

You have skilled hand's , and more patient's than I do !

Not to "nit-pik" but, the last picture shows the frame is a bit tweeked on the driver's side. The front of the leaf spring mount appear's to be bent, and is pulling up on the frame rail.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Little Timmy said:

Tthe last picture shows the frame is a bit tweeked on the driver's side. The front of the leaf spring mount appear's to be bent, and is pulling up on the frame rail.

The radius rods/ leading suspension arms are not installed and the axle is not perpendicular to the frame rails.  The right front spring shackle is leaning forward and the spring is under some tension.  I could have positioned everything a bit better for the photograph.

Edited by Endeavor

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I figured it was just "staged" for the picture, but I thought you should know ... just in case you missed it.

However, after I posted my "Observation" , I realized .  I was just a child playing with Tinker-Toy's .... telling a  TRUE CRAFTSMAN, how to use Lug-Nut's .

Thank you for not Beating me Severely about the head and neck.  

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Posted (edited)

The Fenders

 

Below are photographs of my very first steps toward building realistic fenders.  I began by making  a few rough changes to the right fenders.

 

I removed material from the outer edges of the front and rear wings, and the running board, to reduce their thickness and fullness. This also reduced the width of the front wing just a bit and the width of the rear wing quite lot.

 

In the photo below, an unmodified Pocher part is placed above the modified part.

 

It will be necessary to lower the height of both the front and rear wings relative to the running board. The tape on the modified part indicates approximately how much the fenders must be lowered.

 

This is just a very small beginning step.  I will have to reduce the width of both fenders and the running board. The leading edge of the front fenders will be substantially modified and the rear wings must be radically re-shaped.

 

The blue plastic in the kit is quite brittle and difficult to work with.

 

image.jpg

 

 

In the following photographs, the modified wings shown in the above photograph are mounted on the right side of the model and the unmodified wings are mounted on the left side. The changes made to the modified wings were undertaken to determine if it will be possible to use these parts to accurately represent a prototype and, if so, to help me to plan the next steps.

 

Also notice that these photographs are presented here out of sequence, before the last rounds of modifications were made to the rear of the body.  This work was done, and the photographs taken, to help me to understand the changes that had to be made to the body.

 

Both running boards are bolted to the frame at the correct height.

 

Although the model is still in very rough form, you can see the contrast between the two sides, the result of a very small bit of work on the wings, and that an enormous amount of work needs to be done.  You can also see again why the rear body required major modifications.

 

Stock Wings

 

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Modified Wings

 

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Stock Wings

 

101.jpg

 

 

Modified Wings

 

102.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Endeavor

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Posted (edited)

 I cut the fenders from the running board. The length of the running board was reduced from 107mm to 93mm to more closely match the prototypes.

 

103.jpg

 

 

To lower the front fender, I trimmed 6mm from the bottom. Too much was removed from the section that sits on the top of the frame and material will have to be added back later.

 

To begin to narrow the front fender, I trimmed the bottom horizontal leading edge of the fenders, marked below by the blue tape, so it could be attached to the outside of the frame rail.

 

104.jpg

 

 

Some prototypes have the front wings attached to the inside of the rails; others are attached to the outside of the rails. 

 

An additional problem of the Pocher Spyder fenders is that they bow inward toward the bonnet side panels as they flow from the top of the fender down to the frame.  Looking from the front in two dimensions, the prototype fenders flow down from the crown of the fender in a much straighter line. This excessive curvature is another reason for the excessive fullness and width of the Pocher fenders.  This will be very difficult to fix.

 

image.jpg

 

 

image.jpg

 

 

Pocher attached the wings to the inside of the frame rails.  I will attach them to the outside of the frame rails, moving the fenders outward, so that I can trim more of the outside edge,  reducing both its width and thickness (fullness). 

 

105.jpg

 

 

In the photograph above, the right (passenger) side wing is stock except that I removed the molded-in splash panel. The wing is mounted inside the frame rail as Pocher intended

 

In contrast, the left (driver's) side wing is mounted outside the frame rail and was trimmed on its outside edge. The left fender is narrower than the right, but as you can see, it can be made even narrower so that  its outside edge is on the same vertical plane as the outer sidewall of the tire.

 

This is still a rough work-in-process. In this photograph, the left wing is putting pressure on the front spring shackle, the wing is tilted down, and the running board is tilted up. Both the inside and outside edges need a lot of work.  Also, the right front shackle is still out of position and the axle is misaligned.

 

Attaching the fenders to the outside of the rails, permits the use of an unmodified Monza splash pan infront of the radiator shell.

 

The changes I have made so far have been made without bending plastic.

 

In the photograph below, you can see that I removed the molded rub strips from the running board and rear fender. The blue plastic parts are brittle and difficult to work with.  I created two hairline cracks while cutting with a saw.

 

The running board tilts upward because Pocher did not mold the inside vertical section at a 90 degree angle.  When I bolted the running board to the frame, it tilted upward. One more thing to fix.

 

106.jpg

 

 

In the five photographs below, the running board is bolted to the frame at the correct height. The fenders are attached with tape.

 

You can see how much work will be required to finish the wings.  The front section has been roughly trimmed; the rear section has not been trimmed.The difference in height between the fenders and the running board is approximately correct. Only after the final dimensions and contours of the wings are finalized will they be attached at the correct height.

 

I like the way the model looks, but it does not look like a prototype. Problem include the fenders, doors, and the length of the rear overhang.

 

The plan view and height of the wings are close, but the contours are very wrong.  The running board, trailing section of the front wing, and the leading edge of the rear wing are much too wide.

 

The height and bowed out shape of the doors make the body appear wide and heavy. I will have to scratch lower and flatter doors.

 

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As good as it looks in its present state, the body does not come close enough to the prototypes.

 

I have decided to begin to build a second body.

 

Edited by Endeavor

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8 hours ago, Endeavor said:

I have decided to begin to build a second body.

 

Wow! I'm waiting for that! 
Another daredevil, I love...

Dan.

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Posted (edited)

I have begun building the second body.  At the beginning of this thread, there is a photograph of an OOB K73 body.  Below are two photographs of the second body mounted on the modified chassis.  The only modifications to the OOB body at this point are that I removed the seat and spare tire well.

 

DSCN2778.jpg

 

 

DSCN2783.jpg

 

 

In this photograph, the body has been secured in position on the chassis with six bolts.  The bolts are necessary to make it fit properly.  One side bows out and requires a third bolt to hold the body flush to the rail.  The bolts ensure that the body will be positioned consistently so it can be accurately measured and altered.  

 

Several adjustments were required to obtain a proper fit.

 

DSCN2791.jpg

 

This gauge is a very helpful tool.  The body is warped and asymmetrical.  Some of the problems are really surprising.  For example, the panels that protrude from the body and cover the frame rails are different heights.

 

DSCN2804.jpg

 

 

Both the cowl and the rear deck are warped.

 

DSCN2806.jpg

 

 

Here is another look at the warped cowl.

 

DSCN2809.jpg

 

 

I will attempt to repair the defects in the body at the same time that I attempt to modify it so it will more closely resemble a prototype Touring Spyder.

Edited by Endeavor

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Posted (edited)

Below are photographs of two 8C 2300 Touring Spyders.  There are significant differences between them, but both are very different from a stock Pocher.

 

Alfa-_Romeo-8_C-2300.jpg

 

 

8_C_2300_Touring_Spider.jpg

 

 

Notice the length of the bonnet, the length and height of the cowl, the position of the louvers, and the size and shape of the doors.

 

The cowl is too long. I am trying a different approach to this problem than the one I used for the first body that I built.  

 

I am going to remove a 12mm section from the rear of the cowl, enlarge the cockpit by increasing the distance from the cowl to the rear deck, and re-shape the leading edges of the doors while enlarging them a bit.

 

The section to be removed is outlined by the blue tape. 

 

DSCN2822.jpg

 

 

But nothing is straight forward with this body.

 

My plan to remove a 12mm strip had to be altered a bit because the cowl on the passenger side is 2.6mm longer than it is on the drivers side, 70.7mm vs. 73.3mm.

 

So the strip I removed from the cowl tapers from 12mm to 14.6mm on the  passenger's side

 

The forward blue tape is positioned the same distance from front of the cowl (firewall) on both sides.

 

Below is the other side of the cowl.

 

DSCN2813.jpg

 

 

Work in progress.  I used a flush cutting saw and a hobby knife.

 

Before beginning, to increase the strength and rigidity of the cowl, I laminated two 0.3mm styrene sheets to its underside.

 

DSCN2826.jpg

 

 

I tried to speed things up with a Dremel on this side.  Bad idea.

 

DSCN2824.jpg

 

 

The result.  

 

I will cut down the  original cowl edge, shown below, and reattach it.  Then I have to modify the leading edge door openings,  section the cowl to reduce its height, and reposition new smaller louvers.

 

And one last thing.  I still have to eliminate the warp in the cowl.  Removing the 12mm section made the problem a bit smaller, but did not eliminate it.

 

DSCN2829.jpg

 

 

DSCN2834.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by Endeavor

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