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Help me to choose Spitfire/p51 Kit 1/48


PaulV

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Hello everyone,

 

I am fairly new to modelling and have built only few 1/72 scale. 

However now want to try a slightly bigger 1/48. 

Looking at two models spitfire or p51. It can be older versio of the plane or newer - does not really matter, equal opportunities - I love them all. 

 

My main wish - I want the engine open as well as gun bays if possible. 

 

I looked at few options:

 

Eduard (did one 1/72 kit, just loved it, when looking at other kits 1/72, I believe eduard is pure winner on spitfires), however engine details have to be ordered separately  and made from resin (not sure if I am that ready for cutting, drilling etc)., but engine costs even more than the kit itself, so bit expensive I would say at the moment + I would be too worried to mess it up. 

ICM - found out they do spits with engines opened, read few reviews, seems alright to me, but as far as I understood they have lack of rivet details etc (I find detailed and accurate rivets really sexy)? Pro: the kit is cheap, but seems that not all of their spits come with engine details. Which kits do come engine details? 

Revell 04661 spit kit - as far as I understood it is same ICM kit? At least the sprues look the same from pictures? If so - what is the difference? Better decals? Anything else? I believe it can be hard to buy one, however quite sure I would get something off ebay

 

I could not find p51 1/48 with engine thou and I am not sure about which kit to choose :(

 

PE cockpit details like panel and safety belts - I am looking at Eduard, any other options that are fairly good or maybe better? 

 

Is there anything else available on the market? Maybe engine parts etc available not made from resin or any other softer plastic? Or pre cut already? I am fine with buying parts separately, however do consider the cost.  

 

Any recommendations are highly appreciated! 

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The ICM kit does lack rivet details, but that shouldn't bother you because it's tough to build well and by the time you have got it together and all the seams dealt with, you'd have none left anyway. Rivetting is not obvious of Spitfires anyway, many other them being flush riveted.

 

Having said that, what you describe is an exercise in modelling rather than an exercise in realism anyway which is fine if that's what you want to do. You don't tend to arm aircraft that are about to have engineers and fitters work on them and hence in real life you don't find many instances with gun bays opened up with the cowlings off. If we're in that place anyway as a modelling exercise, then there's no harm in having recessed rivets highlighted with dark washes either I guess.


Hence, it's the Eduard Spitfire you want. If rivets are still important on the Mustang, get the Meng kit (again, in real life, Mustang fuselages were flush riveted and hence they were not obvious from more than 20 ft away, and in WW2 the wings were filled and smoothed over with putty to gain the designed benefits of the laminar flow wing).

 

As for detailing and engines etc, I hate to be a douse of cold water but what you're asking for is quite the contradiction - you're asking for someone to invest a great deal to make parts for you which you don't need to do anything with besides painting, and you want it all to cost less than the mass-produced basic kit. To cut to the chase you need to adjust your budget and expectations, or adjust your ambitions for the model. Kits like the ICM one do come with an injection moulded engine. It doesn't look especially like an engine without a lot more scratchbuilt detailing added which you admit may be a step too far right now. Alternatively, engines like Eduard's Brassin products are nice and are designed to fit their kits with most of the major pieces forward of the firewall. It's still advanced modelling territory though so you will need to cut, drilling or work with tweezers on very delicate assemblies, and to be realistic you should expect to have to fettle the fit of parts. That's about as much as you're going to find pre-made in a packet though, and hence it costs.

 

 

I hope this doesn't seem negative. It's not meant to be at all :) I see little sense in wasting a lot of time shopping around for products at a price point which don't and will never exist though, and before you chop the nose off an Eduard Spitfire, you need a clear idea that you have destroyed a perfectly good kit unless you've got the skills and time to put in to altering it to show an expensive and rather fiddly engine instead.

 

Tamiya's Fiesler Fi156C Storch kit is neither a Spitfire nor a Mustang, but does come with a nice engine in the box and nice detailing overall. The kit will set you back the thick end of £60 but that's the price of something with a decent engine on show that doesn't require anything other than the most basic modelling skills to put together. Alternatively, Zvesda's Pe-2 Peshka kits also have engine cowlings off options and look presentable when done - it has rivet detail too. It's somewhat cheaper than Tamiya's Storch also. Perhaps start there and see if the whole "thing" works before taking a razor saw to a premium quality 1/48 kit to dive into the unknown? :)

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Many thanks, makes sense. 

As mentioned I have built eduard 1/72 - I did not push for extremely visible rivet lines, however it is bit visible on close inspection and gives some lovely shades from a distance when being not so obvious. I know that rivets are usually not that much visible and they are certainly not black washed and what is done with rivet tools or eduard made rivets - actually does not look like rivets, looks like small holes for your wash :DDD But that is pretty much closest you can get with modelling if I am not mistaken. 

 

I am def building Eduard kit in 1/48 with resins and stuff, however at the moment I believe it is a bit too advance to me. + I am more than happy to try riveting myself, would be something nice to learn. 

 

Do you mean ICM kit has horrible fit?

Does meng mustang kit include engine parts?

 

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If you've enjoyed the 1/72 Eduard Spitfire then you may not like the 1/48 ICM kit ! Fit is not as good and older boxes suffered from sink marks and other similar problems. more recent issues fortunately had a much better quality control but it's still not as good a kit as the Eduard one is. Mind, it's not that bad a kit and can be turned into a really good model, but the Eduard is better. IIRC the Merlin included in the ICM kit is also the wrong version (suited for the Mk.V and not the two-stage compressor fitted on the Mk.IX) so if you're into accuracy you may want to go for a resin engine anyway.

Speaking of which, Eduard is not the only manufacturer of resin details, Aires also have an engine set suited for the Spit IX. Problem is that this is designed for the Hasegawa kit so may need some work to fit on the Eduard kit. Aires also makes other detail sets for the IX , some specifically for the Eduard kit. I would have to check the cost of the various sets, in any case whenever resin starts being added to a kit the final cost goes up quite a lot.

Eduard is undisputedly the number one when it comes to PE parts, there are however other smaller names around. AML does PE belts that look even better than the Eduard ones and Yahu does a nice prepainted instrument panel. All these are quite cheap but you only get the belts and the panel.

 

Back to the ICM kit, yes the Revell IX/XVI is the same plastic, Revell decals are indeed better but that's it.

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50 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

The ICM kit does lack rivet details, but that shouldn't bother you because it's tough to build well and by the time you have got it together and all the seams dealt with, you'd have none left anyway. Rivetting is not obvious of Spitfires anyway, many other them being flush riveted.

 

Having said that, what you describe is an exercise in modelling rather than an exercise in realism anyway which is fine if that's what you want to do. You don't tend to arm aircraft that are about to have engineers and fitters work on them and hence in real life you don't find many instances with gun bays opened up with the cowlings off. If we're in that place anyway as a modelling exercise, then there's no harm in having recessed rivets highlighted with dark washes either I guess.


Hence, it's the Eduard Spitfire you want. If rivets are still important on the Mustang, get the Meng kit (again, in real life, Mustang fuselages were flush riveted and hence they were not obvious from more than 20 ft away, and in WW2 the wings were filled and smoothed over with putty to gain the designed benefits of the laminar flow wing).

 

As for detailing and engines etc, I hate to be a douse of cold water but what you're asking for is quite the contradiction - you're asking for someone to invest a great deal to make parts for you which you don't need to do anything with besides painting, and you want it all to cost less than the mass-produced basic kit. To cut to the chase you need to adjust your budget and expectations, or adjust your ambitions for the model. Kits like the ICM one do come with an injection moulded engine. It doesn't look especially like an engine without a lot more scratchbuilt detailing added which you admit may be a step too far right now. Alternatively, engines like Eduard's Brassin products are nice and are designed to fit their kits with most of the major pieces forward of the firewall. It's still advanced modelling territory though so you will need to cut, drilling or work with tweezers on very delicate assemblies, and to be realistic you should expect to have to fettle the fit of parts. That's about as much as you're going to find pre-made in a packet though, and hence it costs.

 

 

I hope this doesn't seem negative. It's not meant to be at all :) I see little sense in wasting a lot of time shopping around for products at a price point which don't and will never exist though, and before you chop the nose off an Eduard Spitfire, you need a clear idea that you have destroyed a perfectly good kit unless you've got the skills and time to put in to altering it to show an expensive and rather fiddly engine instead.

 

Tamiya's Fiesler Fi156C Storch kit is neither a Spitfire nor a Mustang, but does come with a nice engine in the box and nice detailing overall. The kit will set you back the thick end of £60 but that's the price of something with a decent engine on show that doesn't require anything other than the most basic modelling skills to put together. Alternatively, Zvesda's Pe-2 Peshka kits also have engine cowlings off options and look presentable when done - it has rivet detail too. It's somewhat cheaper than Tamiya's Storch also. Perhaps start there and see if the whole "thing" works before taking a razor saw to a premium quality 1/48 kit to dive into the unknown? :)

Superb. Many thanks. I dont' find it negative at all, I am more than happy to see reviews like that. Many thanks again! Will need to do a bit of more research and find out what I want as you say :D

23 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

If you've enjoyed the 1/72 Eduard Spitfire then you may not like the 1/48 ICM kit ! Fit is not as good and older boxes suffered from sink marks and other similar problems. more recent issues fortunately had a much better quality control but it's still not as good a kit as the Eduard one is. Mind, it's not that bad a kit and can be turned into a really good model, but the Eduard is better. IIRC the Merlin included in the ICM kit is also the wrong version (suited for the Mk.V and not the two-stage compressor fitted on the Mk.IX) so if you're into accuracy you may want to go for a resin engine anyway.

Speaking of which, Eduard is not the only manufacturer of resin details, Aires also have an engine set suited for the Spit IX. Problem is that this is designed for the Hasegawa kit so may need some work to fit on the Eduard kit. Aires also makes other detail sets for the IX , some specifically for the Eduard kit. I would have to check the cost of the various sets, in any case whenever resin starts being added to a kit the final cost goes up quite a lot.

Eduard is undisputedly the number one when it comes to PE parts, there are however other smaller names around. AML does PE belts that look even better than the Eduard ones and Yahu does a nice prepainted instrument panel. All these are quite cheap but you only get the belts and the panel.

 

Back to the ICM kit, yes the Revell IX/XVI is the same plastic, Revell decals are indeed better but that's it.

Thank you!!!!

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If you want engine included, with decent detail OOB,  you may want too go up a scale, and look at 1/32nd, where Tamiya do a Spitfire IX/VIII or XVI, and a P-51D.

 A chap at my model club, @CT Modeller  made a valid point about 1/48th,  not big enough to be impressive and and too small for a lot of detail....  for a big one 1/32 maybe the way to go.   Have a google.   Zoukei-Moura also do a super detailed P-51, but a lot of the detail is that disappears when built.

 

Bear in mind that I have seen the above Tamiya kits offered for sale for about £80, (on offer or on the sale pages here) and for example if you want an 'all-singing all dancing' 1/48th P-51 you will be looking at something like a Aires full resin detail set 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AIRE4089

AIRE4089.jpg?t=

 

which is priced at £40 at Hannants,  plus getting this all to fit..... plus a base kit...

 

Eduard specialise in doing all the gubbins for their Spitfire kits, and it is possible to get these on offer,  I have picked up gun and engine sets for about half retail (which is extortionate IMO)  when they have been on offer,  MJW models are good for this

http://mjwmodels.co.uk/

 

they often have the items that are in Creative Models specials  http://www.creativemodels.co.uk/this_weeks_specials-c-205.html

for about the same price for longer than the week Creative run theirs for,  note Creative are the  Eduard distributor.

 

Unless you are in a mad rush,  do some research,  there are masses of builds online,  work out what you want and keep watch out,  and you can often pick items up at a decent price.

 

1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

Back to the ICM kit, yes the Revell IX/XVI is the same plastic, Revell decals are indeed better but that's it.

the Revell kits boxed as a IX/XVI (high back) is the Hasegawa IX kit,  (a good KIT, but not has a notably undersized rear fuselage),  but Revell have also reboxed the ICM XVI low back as well.

 

HTH

T

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

If you want engine included, with decent detail OOB,  you may want too go up a scale, and look at 1/32nd, where Tamiya do a Spitfire IX/VIII or XVI, and a P-51D.

 A chap at my model club, @CT Modeller  made a valid point about 1/48th,  not big enough to be impressive and and too small for a lot of detail....  for a big one 1/32 maybe the way to go.   Have a google.   Zoukei-Moura also do a super detailed P-51, but a lot of the detail is that disappears when built.

 

Bear in mind that I have seen the above Tamiya kits offered for sale for about £80, (on offer or on the sale pages here) and for example if you want an 'all-singing all dancing' 1/48th P-51 you will be looking at something like a Aires full resin detail set 

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/AIRE4089

AIRE4089.jpg?t=

 

which is priced at £40 at Hannants,  plus getting this all to fit..... plus a base kit...

 

Eduard specialise in doing all the gubbins for their Spitfire kits, and it is possible to get these on offer,  I have picked up gun and engine sets for about half retail (which is extortionate IMO)  when they have been on offer,  MJW models are good for this

http://mjwmodels.co.uk/

 

they often have the items that are in Creative Models specials  http://www.creativemodels.co.uk/this_weeks_specials-c-205.html

for about the same price for longer than the week Creative run theirs for,  note Creative are the  Eduard distributor.

 

Unless you are in a mad rush,  do some research,  there are masses of builds online,  work out what you want and keep watch out,  and you can often pick items up at a decent price.

 

the Revell kits boxed as a IX/XVI (high back) is the Hasegawa IX kit,  (a good KIT, but not has a notably undersized rear fuselage),  but Revell have also reboxed the ICM XVI low back as well.

 

HTH

T

 

 

Many thanks! The offer I do research the more kits I want + when you look at the built/ready to display pictures I just want all of them.

Anyway, I did consider 1/32 scale, but at the moment considering my skill set and that I am still using the brush for painting... I will stick to 1/72 and will try 1/48.

Thanks for the links by the way, I did not know few of them I am also looking for good deals, managed to get eduards new spit in 1/72 for £10 from Amazon with Prime delivery

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